PostGame Thread OFFICIAL Week 2 Postgame Thread - Patriots Lose 23-20 in OT to Seahawks

[Real fan 02]

Wallace doesn’t seem capable of playing LT. Best to get him to RT, Onwenu back to RG, and Robinson/Sow at LG. Lowe is our LT for the year, and he’s better than last year (not saying much) but it is what it is.

That's just it. Between injury and inconsistent play the line had no cohesion... that also is a major reason for the problems. It's constantly mixing and matching.. we have basically PS guys being asked to play above thier talent levels.

 

[VrabelJr]

Whether the WRs were getting open or not isn’t really the question. In the NFL you maybe get a handful of plays per game where a WR is wide open. An NFL QB is paid to make hard throws and not make dumb throws. Jacoby isn’t trying to make hard throws.

 

[The Gr8est]

Wallace he's a rookie and he was in there yesterday so may as well start him.. the team invested draft stock in him so play him. Lowe was traded for a pack of double mint gum.

And we would have a roster spot open for another OL.

Who is available who is better than Lowe?

Plus they wouldn’t know our system.

 

[dliverey44]

I am battling between thoughts, after watching the rookie QBs getting bounced around behind a bad OLs. Do I really want Maye in there? Below is the total number of QB hits and sacks. I put the rooks and Brissette for reference. I am very conflicted

Nix- 22
Caleb-24
JD- 13
JB- 19

Edit: I am leaning toward yes play Maye

 

[Mike the Brit]

I think he has sort of customized the Playbook for JB. At least I would think he has/should've. JB is limited in what he can do, it makes sense to me that the playbook would be a little different.

Yes.

But it's one thing to limit what you ask Brissett to do (no point in having him heave it over the receiver's head thirty yards downfield) another to have an offense that is completely predictable.

If there is any point to having an experienced (but not very talented) QB, it's surely that he should have the experience to read the defense and change the play at the line of scrimmage. In Brady's first year, he was hardly asked to throw, but Charlie Weis ran endless sweeps, reverses and screens to keep the defense off-balance.

Like the good captain (but perhaps a bit more politely) I was screaming at all of the wasted runs against a stacked box for no gain on first down.

 

[lancerman]

Yes

This is what happens to all teams that rush out their QB when they should be developing and they fail. You are doing what Browns fans did for a decade and a half.

 

[Real fan 02]

I am battling between thoughts, after watching the rookie QBs getting bounced around behind a bad OLs. Do I really want Maye in there? Below is the total number of QB hits and sacks. I put the rooks and Brissette for reference. I am very conflicted

Nix- 22
Caleb-24
JD- 13
JB- 19

Edit: I am leaning toward yes play Maye

Remember that 30 yard pass to polk from maye? Imagine that on a routine basis. Yes we all know how bad the line is.. but Drake gets rid of the ball quickly and his arm can get the ball deep to the intended receiver and not the ground. I wonder how many more 120 yards passing is mayo going to endure..

 

[Rob0729]

A few quick thoughts (apologize if some of these points have been beaten to death):

1. - Although I think Maye should continue to sit for at least now, but I really wish they got a better veteran than Brissett. In the first half he was good, but he isn't a guy you can rely on to make a big drive when needed. You want to know why he doesn't turn over the ball? He is too risk adverse. You don't see him throwing to a lot of guys unless they are wide open. That is why Henry got all the balls early because he was getting open and his receivers did not. Other than maybe a couple of throws, the person catching the ball from Brissett was pretty open. No 50-50 balls. No throws into tight coverage.
2. - Speaking of the receivers. It is ridiculous how little they are involved in this offense. I get that they have been struggling to get open and the offensive line has been spotty, but the RBs had as many catches yesterday as the WRs (three each). I mean Van Pelt needs to figure out ways to get these receivers open quickly and Brissett needs to trust throwing to these guys even if they are not wide open. I have seen a lot of video of yesterday of Pop Douglas getting open and Brissett not seeing it.

1. - If Keon White could develop a spin move and a little wiggle, he will become a superstar in this league. He is limited in his repertoire, but he is dominant in what he does well. He can run through linemen with the best of them, but he needs to get around them and elude blocks more.
2. - WTF was Mayo thinking turning down the illegal man downfield penalty on second down where the Seahawks were on the Patriots' 16? That put the Seahawks in a 3rd and 5 on the 13ish. The Seahawks got a PI on the next play and scored a TD on the play after that. A gotta think a 2nd and 13 had far better odds of holding the Seahawks to a field goal or less. Rookie head coach mistake. In most cases, I would never decline a penalty like that if it is the difference between 3rd and 5 and 2nd and 13. I would the assume other than special circumstance, the odds are always in favor of taking the penalty.
3. - One stupid mistake was really the difference in winning a losing. The miscommunication between Gonzalez and Dugger on the Metcalf TD gave the Seahawks a cheap TD. I think up to that moment, the defense was playing solid and the offense was playing well enough to win if the Patriots kept the Seahawks under 20.

 

[Vindicate]

I am battling between thoughts, after watching the rookie QBs getting bounced around behind a bad OLs. Do I really want Maye in there? Below is the total number of QB hits and sacks. I put the rooks and Brissette for reference. I am very conflicted

Nix- 22
Caleb-24
JD- 13
JB- 19

Edit: I am leaning toward yes play Maye

I just watched a short vid on Andrew Luck's career since it had been a minute and I was reminded how a bad O-Line can literally derail even the most promising careers.

However, it is hard watching Brissett.

 

[vicspats]

That's just it. Between injury and inconsistent play the line had no cohesion... that also is a major reason for the problems. It's constantly mixing and matching.. we have basically PS guys being asked to play above thier talent levels.

That line has been a mess since Scar retired.

 

[vicspats]

A few quick thoughts (apologize if some of these points have been beaten to death):

1. - Although I think Maye should continue to sit for at least now, but I really wish they got a better veteran than Brissett. In the first half he was good, but he isn't a guy you can rely on to make a big drive when needed. You want to know why he doesn't turn over the ball? He is too risk adverse. You don't see him throwing to a lot of guys unless they are wide open. That is why Henry got all the balls early because he was getting open and his receivers did not. Other than maybe a couple of throws, the person catching the ball from Brissett was pretty open. No 50-50 balls. No throws into tight coverage.
2. - Speaking of the receivers. It is ridiculous how little they are involved in this offense. I get that they have been struggling to get open and the offensive line has been spotty, but the RBs had as many catches yesterday as the WRs (three each). I mean Van Pelt needs to figure out ways to get these receivers open quickly and Brissett needs to trust throwing to these guys even if they are not wide open. I have seen a lot of video of yesterday of Pop Douglas getting open and Brissett not seeing it.

1. - If Keon White could develop a spin move and a little wiggle, he will become a superstar in this league. He is limited in his repertoire, but he is dominant in what he does well. He can run through linemen with the best of them, but he needs to get around them and elude blocks more.
2. - WTF was Mayo thinking turning down the illegal man downfield penalty on second down where the Seahawks were on the Patriots' 16? That put the Seahawks in a 3rd and 5 on the 13ish. The Seahawks got a PI on the next play and scored a TD on the play after that. A gotta think a 2nd and 13 had far better odds of holding the Seahawks to a field goal or less. Rookie head coach mistake. In most cases, I would never decline a penalty like that if it is the difference between 3rd and 5 and 2nd and 13. I would the assume other than special circumstance, the odds are always in favor of taking the penalty.
3. - One stupid mistake was really the difference in winning a losing. The miscommunication between Gonzalez and Dugger on the Metcalf TD gave the Seahawks a cheap TD. I think up to that moment, the defense was playing solid and the offense was playing well enough to win if the Patriots kept the Seahawks under 20.

Better veteran ? Not sure who. Plus who wanted to come here ? Top it off it’s only temporary. You thinking Brady wanted back? Wishful thinking !!

 

[TommyD4207]

Defenses are not afraid of Brisset. He cant thread the needle in tight coverage which is when the WR/TE/RB is open when they break their route. In the NFL single coverage is open.

Stop the Pats run and stop the Pats offense. Brisset is a Game Manager.

All of this can be true, and is true.

What's also true, is even if Brissett were prime Tom Brady, the results wouldn't be much different, because he doesn't have time to throw before those breaks happen, like at all. Pop Douglas has 3 targets in 2 games. He's a slot receiver. You don't think Brissett would look at him first every single time, if he even had the time to do it?

I mean, I don't see anyone defending Jacoby Brissett by saying he's some great quarterback. What I am seeing (and agree with) is that it doesn't make a damn bit of difference who the quarterback is right now, when you're starting 4 guards and a center on your offensive line, and 3 of those 5 consistently (and 4 of those 5 more than half the time), are instantly beaten on every pass play, no matter who lines up across from them.

 

[TommyD4207]

I am battling between thoughts, after watching the rookie QBs getting bounced around behind a bad OLs. Do I really want Maye in there? Below is the total number of QB hits and sacks. I put the rooks and Brissette for reference. I am very conflicted

Nix- 22
Caleb-24
JD- 13
JB- 19

Edit: I am leaning toward yes play Maye

Look at Brissett's 19, and consider as well the number of times, he's somehow managed to escape or anticipate pressure on top of that.

Also, I'm just calling into question the pressure statistics in general, I think they're way undercounted. Brissett is 'supposedly' pressured on 44% of dropbacks. It's closer to twice that.

 

[TommyD4207]

A few quick thoughts (apologize if some of these points have been beaten to death):

1. - Although I think Maye should continue to sit for at least now, but I really wish they got a better veteran than Brissett. In the first half he was good, but he isn't a guy you can rely on to make a big drive when needed. You want to know why he doesn't turn over the ball? He is too risk adverse. You don't see him throwing to a lot of guys unless they are wide open. That is why Henry got all the balls early because he was getting open and his receivers did not. Other than maybe a couple of throws, the person catching the ball from Brissett was pretty open. No 50-50 balls. No throws into tight coverage.
2. - Speaking of the receivers. It is ridiculous how little they are involved in this offense. I get that they have been struggling to get open and the offensive line has been spotty, but the RBs had as many catches yesterday as the WRs (three each). I mean Van Pelt needs to figure out ways to get these receivers open quickly and Brissett needs to trust throwing to these guys even if they are not wide open. I have seen a lot of video of yesterday of Pop Douglas getting open and Brissett not seeing it.

1. - If Keon White could develop a spin move and a little wiggle, he will become a superstar in this league. He is limited in his repertoire, but he is dominant in what he does well. He can run through linemen with the best of them, but he needs to get around them and elude blocks more.
2. - WTF was Mayo thinking turning down the illegal man downfield penalty on second down where the Seahawks were on the Patriots' 16? That put the Seahawks in a 3rd and 5 on the 13ish. The Seahawks got a PI on the next play and scored a TD on the play after that. A gotta think a 2nd and 13 had far better odds of holding the Seahawks to a field goal or less. Rookie head coach mistake. In most cases, I would never decline a penalty like that if it is the difference between 3rd and 5 and 2nd and 13. I would the assume other than special circumstance, the odds are always in favor of taking the penalty.
3. - One stupid mistake was really the difference in winning a losing. The miscommunication between Gonzalez and Dugger on the Metcalf TD gave the Seahawks a cheap TD. I think up to that moment, the defense was playing solid and the offense was playing well enough to win if the Patriots kept the Seahawks under 20.

If you can watch that video, and say that is somehow Jacoby Brissett's fault, when he is instantly pressured on the right side of the line (The 'good' side, mind you), and is virtually sacked before Douglas even clears his defender, then I don't know what to tell you.

All those clips tell me, is that Brissett has a defender in his face on all three of those plays, before he can even complete a 5-step dropback. This is basic, basic **** the Patriots are incapable of doing right now.

 

[sturmrider]

I just watched a short vid on Andrew Luck's career since it had been a minute and I was reminded how a bad O-Line can literally derail even the most promising careers.

However, it is hard watching Brissett.

Bryce Young has also been benched after a year behind a horrible offensive line he cannot figure out how to take the time behind a somewhat decent o-line. I believe we are just going to have to suffer a little longer until we are sure Maye is ready to go.

 

[Triumph]

If you can watch that video, and say that is somehow Jacoby Brissett's fault, when he is instantly pressured on the right side of the line (The 'good' side, mind you), and is virtually sacked before Douglas even clears his defender, then I don't know what to tell you.

All those clips tell me, is that Brissett has a defender in his face on all three of those plays, before he can even complete a 5-step dropback. This is basic, basic **** the Patriots are incapable of doing right now.

Put Brisset in the shotgun then.

The Pats can still run and short pass to the RBs.

 

[Triumph]

Look at Brissett's 19, and consider as well the number of times, he's somehow managed to escape or anticipate pressure on top of that.

Also, I'm just calling into question the pressure statistics in general, I think they're way undercounted. Brissett is 'supposedly' pressured on 44% of dropbacks. It's closer to twice that.

Because defenses can bring the house without fear of Brisset burning them.

A poster here went to the game yesterday and stated that Douglas was open alot, but never got the ball. This season will reach a breaking point where another loss will end the playoffs this season. That's what Kraft wants- playoffs. At that juncture play Maye or ride with Jacoby. According to sportsradio, since the NFL went to 17 games, approximately 4 or 5 teams made the playoffs after starting 0 - 2. The margin for this team is slim. The Pats cant afford to give away games that they could of won like Seattle.

 

[Triumph]

I am battling between thoughts, after watching the rookie QBs getting bounced around behind a bad OLs. Do I really want Maye in there? Below is the total number of QB hits and sacks. I put the rooks and Brissette for reference. I am very conflicted

Nix- 22
Caleb-24
JD- 13
JB- 19

Edit: I am leaning toward yes play Maye

Why are Nix and Caleb struggling and getting hit?

Because they are not processing what's on the field like Brisset. They want to wait until something opens up and that's too late in the NFL.

 

[mgteich]

Sigh!

One, two, three, throw a short pass over the middle.

Rinse, repeat.

Brissett is NOT capable of identifying open receivers and throwing short throws. It is really that simple.
=======
I agree that the OL does give him the 3 seconds need for throwing far downfield. I also think that that is irrelevant. A competent Qb would be able to make some short throws in addition to the 185 yards of running. That is enough to win more games.
=======
I refuse to agree with folks that Brissett doesn't have the time for short drops. Or, just perhaps, Brissett needs too much time to identify open receivers.

 

[mgteich]

Because defenses can bring the house without fear of Brisset burning them.

Brissett is uncapable of burning the Defense with a 10- yard pass over the middle.