Maye must play

[Real fan 02]

Brissett needs to be the starter while this offensive line sorts itself out... Once that is settled, or as close to that as this group can get, then it's time to insert Maye to provide a spark to the offense, NOT before. There is the rookie wall to respect as well.
The ideal situation is Maye replaces Brissett sometime in mid-October and provides a spark that gets the team moving and the fans excited. Playing him now is premature and come with higher risks for about the same reward.

While your post is sensible and very logical.. the decision makers in Foxboro will have to make the best decision they feel for the 2024 patriots to lay the ground work going forward. When it comes to a rookie QB it's always a gamble wether he starts week 1, 5 or 10. So I'm open to both maye or Brissett starting. It will all come down to what mayo and Wolf believe is best.

 

[sb1]

Can't get it to Thornton and threw it well into the crowds to Polk yeah I get it.

Brissett’s problem isn’t his arm it’s his reads and hesitation to throw a receiver open. He’s very conservative. His low turnover numbers look nice but that puts it into perspective.

That’s why the Colts moved on and that’s why he is a journeyman backup not a starter.

 

[Real fan 02]

Brissett’s problem isn’t his arm it’s his reads and hesitation to throw a receiver open. He’s very conservative. His low turnover numbers look nice but that puts it into perspective.

That’s why the Colts moved on and that’s why he is a journeyman backup not a starter.

Agreed and what I see from maye is he does the opposite.. if it's not there throws it away.. or uses his ability to get outside the pocket. No QB is polished.. even the #1 pick Williams.. if the organization collectively feels it's best to play rookie they will. Brady didn't become brady until he had a chance to start.

 

[PScottman]

What? I posted the links multiple times before.

Not the reader's responsibility to sift through myriad posts without context or knowledge of said posts - a reference without citation is just a story. Secondly, with today's media, statistics are more about omission and narrative than comparison. They simply don't apply scientific method.

Taking certain statistics and omitting others to prove their viewpoint (just like we're doing here). For example - yards as a measuring stick.
A volume statistic means diddly (which Bo don't know) without additional context. It's the Antoine Walker corollary - a "volume" scorer isn't a great example or reference point from which to draw conclusions. A crap team can equal a lot of yards trying to come back and throwing against prevent. Same if they just show TDs without the requisite responsibility for INTs (and timing of each), wins versus losses, longevity of career, sample and sample size (We took Payton Manning in our study but omitted Jeff George because well....reasons), when the statistics were pulled and from what sources themselves.

Add to that the measurements that coaches find useful tend not to be catalogued as data - decision making (including speed and accuracy of the same), injury avoidance (knowing when to get down or throw the ball away), knowing when to take an action (like pulling the ball down and running) and when not to, tendency repetition avoidance (determined by data) such that defenses can't take away your strengths and feast on your weaknesses. Others such as who your teammates were - (its a team game and we know the Patriots OL sucks because of three years of data available) - Matthew Stafford personally looked great on paper (Calvin Johnson Stats With Matt Stafford | StatMuse) early in his career because he had Megatron, but that led to how many wins over time?

Calvin Johnson had 521 catches for 8,315 yards and scored 57 touchdowns in 87 games with Matthew Stafford in his career.​

He was an example of bad data without context. Drew Bledsoe was another - he had tremendous statistics, but most often when the difference was pressure and "gotta have it" - he reverted to poor mechanics and decision making born of multiple factors including not having bad habits corrected.

Data science requires not just the data itself, but its source, its integrity, its context, its reference, etc, etc. There's just so much in the Information Age that "taking it on faith" is a fool's errand.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I’m not sure which Mac Jones people watched but the bottom line with him is that he doesn’t have an NFL. Caliber arm. Time after time after time he had receivers wide open but the defensive backs broke it up because he couldn’t put enough pace on the ball to get it into the window before it closed. Once defensive coordinators had the tape on him he was done. One of the hurdles young QB’s have to overcome is how they adapt once defensive coordinators take away your go to plays, and once that happened to Jones he was done. He’s not an NFL QB, period.

 

[sb1]

I’m not sure which Mac Jones people watched but the bottom line with him is that he doesn’t have an NFL. Caliber arm. Time after time after time he had receivers wide open but the defensive backs broke it up because he couldn’t put enough pace on the ball to get it into the window before it closed. Once defensive coordinators had the tape on him he was done. One of the hurdles young QB’s have to overcome is how they adapt once defensive coordinators take away your go to plays, and once that happened to Jones he was done. He’s not an NFL QB, period.

He is fine as a backup which is what he is now. Not a starter.

 

[KCSVEN]

Data science requires not just the data itself, but its source, its integrity, its context, its reference, etc, etc. There's just so much in the Information Age that "taking it on faith" is a fool's errand.

DUH! There's a reason I can make 35% in the stock market annually with little risk. Because research and detailed analysis is what I do.

Everyone should know by now, because I've said it multiple times, I spent 100's of hours analyzing all things about QB's. Just like I could teach anyone in the world to beat market returns in about 5 minutes (but that's impossible? Nope it is easy) I could write a thesis on QB's in the NFL and what things translate, what to look for etc. I've posted some of the detail multiple times. Of course, it does not mean I am 100% right when I make a decision because it is all odds, statistical analysis, I just say what the percentages say is best, of course its not 100%. I only get 91% of my stock trades right, I understand data, I understand questioning data, I know how to research, it is what I do.

If you know all this and decide you are going to take an argument against what I have found the data and analytics to say then I will assume you did the research, which means you already found this data on your own, you've already analyzed it, you've Already tried to find data to dispute it, you did the hours of research I did, you just did it better and you can teach me something which I would love because I want all the data and research possible. I have ZERO bias, I have expectations, like I expected sitting to show to be better for development, I was wrong. I don't let those expectations sway me. More data can always change my view, I'm just giving the current view based on all data I know to exist, if more data comes to my attention and the analyses shows I might be wrong I have no problem saying kudos to you and changing my view.

Otherwise, it's Dunning-Kruger, 80% of the people, with an opinion on a subject have not learned enough about to it support their view.

Which also means you are not going to research anything I post with an open mind anyways, so do your own work, come with a cogent argument and I would enjoy that very much. Otherwise, I don't care if you don't believe the research and data, People believe the Earth is flat, I'm not sending them links to the fact it's not flat, if they cared to know they did that research already. They will just believe what they want, pointless for me to encourage more discussion on it..

 

[Huckleberry1]

He is fine as a backup which is what he is now. Not a starter.

I don’t think having a back up who can’t win is a good option.

 

[h0c2000]

I don’t think having a back up who can’t win is a good option.

And yet, that's who Brissett is.

 

[Huckleberry1]

And yet, that's who Brissett is.

Brissett isn’t the back up. I’m not going to argue that Brissett is a good QB, he isn’t, he’s a placeholder who is a good mentor that knows Van pelt’s system, and that’s why he was brought in. I thought Tannehill would have been a better signing, but since he doesn’t know Van Pelt’s offense he would have been learning it with Maye and Milton, instead of someone who knows it inside out.

The bottom line with all the decisions the Patriots right now comes down to whether you want them to win right now, or use this season to set themselves up for the lon term. I’m in the latter camp. I think Wolf is culling the players they don’t want out, signing some vets to short term contracts so they don’t create more holes, and preserving most of their resources for the next offseason. Maye is a long term investment, and if they hit on him they don’t have to worry about QB for the long run, and should become a contender in a couple of seasons. Once he knows the offense, and they have the OL in decent shape put him out there, in the meantime don’t worry about it. They won’t be winning a Lombardi this year so don’t worry about their record right now, pay more attention to how hard they play, and whether they are improving or not. Next season is where the expectations should start to ramp up.

 

[p8ryts]

Brissett isn’t the back up. I’m not going to argue that Brissett is a good QB, he isn’t, he’s a placeholder who is a good mentor that knows Van pelt’s system, and that’s why he was brought in. I thought Tannehill would have been a better signing, but since he doesn’t know Van Pelt’s offense he would have been learning it with Maye and Milton, instead of someone who knows it inside out.

The bottom line with all the decisions the Patriots right now comes down to whether you want them to win right now, or use this season to set themselves up for the lon term. I’m in the latter camp. I think Wolf is culling the players they don’t want out, signing some vets to short term contracts so they don’t create more holes, and preserving most of their resources for the next offseason. Maye is a long term investment, and if they hit on him they don’t have to worry about QB for the long run, and should become a contender in a couple of seasons. Once he knows the offense, and they have the OL in decent shape put him out there, in the meantime don’t worry about it. They won’t be winning a Lombardi this year so don’t worry about their record right now, pay more attention to how hard they play, and whether they are improving or not. Next season is where the expectations should start to ramp up.

reluctantly, agree with you.

 

[Ring 6]

Brissett isn’t the back up. I’m not going to argue that Brissett is a good QB, he isn’t, he’s a placeholder who is a good mentor that knows Van pelt’s system, and that’s why he was brought in. I thought Tannehill would have been a better signing, but since he doesn’t know Van Pelt’s offense he would have been learning it with Maye and Milton, instead of someone who knows it inside out.

The bottom line with all the decisions the Patriots right now comes down to whether you want them to win right now, or use this season to set themselves up for the lon term. I’m in the latter camp. I think Wolf is culling the players they don’t want out, signing some vets to short term contracts so they don’t create more holes, and preserving most of their resources for the next offseason. Maye is a long term investment, and if they hit on him they don’t have to worry about QB for the long run, and should become a contender in a couple of seasons. Once he knows the offense, and they have the OL in decent shape put him out there, in the meantime don’t worry about it. They won’t be winning a Lombardi this year so don’t worry about their record right now, pay more attention to how hard they play, and whether they are improving or not. Next season is where the expectations should start to ramp up.

The reason to play Maye isn’t about winning now, in fact it’s the opposite. The correct long term approach is to focus primarily on Mayes development. He will develop faster and better by playing. Having him sit accomplished nothing and the only reason to do so is if you think you have a shot at winning (and they didn’t even try to have that) and want thr experienced guy playing.

 

[JMC00]

I didn't want to be doing this 3 weeks before the season starts but I was 100% confident in Mayo and was gonna be for the year knowing it's a rebuild year but I've lost 5% after him coming out and saying it's a competition but then you look at what's actually happening and it seems to me Mayo and co are figuratively tying Maye's hands behind his back in camp and letting Brissett get a head start in the race. Hopefully these last weeks of camp they actually allow it to be a legitimate competition. Either come out and say Brissett is the week 1 starter or let it actually be a competition.

Allowing Maye to see actual nfl game reps and starter reps is what will help him, at least a megaton more than him getting backup reps or playing the Josh Allen, Caleb Williams, Anthony Richardson, Kyle Murray role in practice the week they play those teams

 

[jdlboot14]

It's true that with a VERY small sample size, Brissett does not look any more suited to play in this offense than Maye.
I don't think there's ANY chance this regime starts Maye week 1 though.
I think Brissett will struggle, and look exactly like Mac did last year. And instead of sticking to the plan for Brissett to play most of this year, they'll make the switch much earlier - like game 5 or 6.

Maybe mostly because Kraft is going to be impatient when attendance starts dropping, and this team needs some hope and excitement.
Even if they keep losing games, Maye will spark the team and the ticket sales and merch.

 

[Drunken Cicerone]

Start and play Milton all year, you’ll win 1-3 games but it’ll be fun

 

[PScottman]

Brissett isn’t the back up. I’m not going to argue that Brissett is a good QB, he isn’t, he’s a placeholder who is a good mentor that knows Van pelt’s system, and that’s why he was brought in. I thought Tannehill would have been a better signing, but since he doesn’t know Van Pelt’s offense he would have been learning it with Maye and Milton, instead of someone who knows it inside out.

The bottom line with all the decisions the Patriots right now comes down to whether you want them to win right now, or use this season to set themselves up for the lon term. I’m in the latter camp. I think Wolf is culling the players they don’t want out, signing some vets to short term contracts so they don’t create more holes, and preserving most of their resources for the next offseason. Maye is a long term investment, and if they hit on him they don’t have to worry about QB for the long run, and should become a contender in a couple of seasons. Once he knows the offense, and they have the OL in decent shape put him out there, in the meantime don’t worry about it. They won’t be winning a Lombardi this year so don’t worry about their record right now, pay more attention to how hard they play, and whether they are improving or not. Next season is where the expectations should start to ramp up.

Concur 100%. One of my teammates commented as we were watching another team we play regularly Friday "why don't they ever improve, they have the skills?" The answer was easy - it's because all they do is play the game. They then make the same mistakes. Have trends and tendencies that get exposed and weaknesses that get exploited.

We conversely practice. We drill fundamentals constantly. We get put into controlled uncomfortable scenarios and repeat things until we get them right and they're not uncomfortable anymore. We have steadily improved over the year. That is a luxury!!!

But it's probably one that the Patriots don't have.

There has to be butts in seats. Eyes on screens. Merchandise off shelves. It's just different. The majority of the fanbase (and reflected here) just see things differently. Whether through a lens of "only improvement is in battle" or "best players must play" or any number of other viewpoints, the Patriots will whether directly or indirectly be constantly pressured to play Maye from day one. And when it comes down to it - both aspects of the discussion are fortune telling. There is no 100% guaranteed answer because if there were every team would be taking advantage of it. Every single scenario of this type is different with trillions of variables at play.

 

[PScottman]

I have ZERO bias

Mr Spock?

 

[pazrul72]

The reason to play Maye isn’t about winning now, in fact it’s the opposite. The correct long term approach is to focus primarily on Mayes development. He will develop faster and better by playing. Having him sit accomplished nothing and the only reason to do so is if you think you have a shot at winning (and they didn’t even try to have that) and want thr experienced guy playing.

Do you ever get tired of typing the same thing over and over again? Thats your POV, which is fine to have, but there is another side to that backed up by historical evidence. You bring nothing to the discussion by just saying your opinion with no sources, no examples, just nothing but you saying it, like thats all it will take to change peoples mind.

I dont have the gotcha quote i was looking for as i am going to once again just try to get you to acknowledge you dont know what you say is 100% undisputable fact. Tom Brady was on the Herd May 27th, would you agree he is a pretty good source on the value of sitting rookie year? Its a 20 min interview that goes around a bunch of topics but the jist was its not about the rookie QBs its about the people around them. He mentioned belichick, weis, bledsoe and how much he learned from them. How much he underestimated the prep time necessary to win in the NFL. How much the mental reps helped him to be ready when his turn came up for real. That the best thing that could have happened to Jordan Love was being able to watch Aaron Rodgers.

Point is there IS value to sitting and learning ANY job but one as complicated and high preasure as starting NFL QB? You'll forgive me if i roll my eyes every time i see you sprouting your opinion as fact for the 500th time as personally i much prefer giving Maye the time and opportunity to reach his HOF top 20 QB of all time potential.

 

[KCSVEN]

Mr Spock?

Shhhhh!

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Brissett isn’t the back up. I’m not going to argue that Brissett is a good QB, he isn’t, he’s a placeholder who is a good mentor that knows Van pelt’s system, and that’s why he was brought in. I thought Tannehill would have been a better signing, but since he doesn’t know Van Pelt’s offense he would have been learning it with Maye and Milton, instead of someone who knows it inside out.

The bottom line with all the decisions the Patriots right now comes down to whether you want them to win right now, or use this season to set themselves up for the lon term. I’m in the latter camp. I think Wolf is culling the players they don’t want out, signing some vets to short term contracts so they don’t create more holes, and preserving most of their resources for the next offseason. Maye is a long term investment, and if they hit on him they don’t have to worry about QB for the long run, and should become a contender in a couple of seasons. Once he knows the offense, and they have the OL in decent shape put him out there, in the meantime don’t worry about it. They won’t be winning a Lombardi this year so don’t worry about their record right now, pay more attention to how hard they play, and whether they are improving or not. Next season is where the expectations should start to ramp up.

reluctantly, agree with you.

I agree with what you wrote, and at the same time disagree with what is not written. It would be more beneficial to not attempt to flip a switch next year and rebuild instantly. Maye will be in his second year and a high 1st round pick at LT might be on the roster, but that is part of a continuous team building, not a point to finally start spending/trying. The team could be managed to be in a better position with fewer holes in 2025 while maintaining the approach you mention. We have over $50M in cap space and more cap space in 2025 and 2026, so I think it would have been smart to address some of the secondary positions needed in 2024 and integrate those players into the program starting this year. For example, we have a #1 CB in Gonzo and an aging Jon Jones, and it would have been nice to sign a #2 CB in FA and work him into the defense. Maybe a FS, a TE better than Hooper, a pass rushing #2 DT alongside Barmore, and positions like that.

An analogy that people might understand is that companies plan to introduce new products over time, and have product roadmaps to implement their strategy. When the profits are low a company can eliminate the R&D and make profits higher, and then double their R&D the following year. But losing a year of R&D, and trying to compensate by doubling R&D a year later, is rarely pursued because it is a losing strategy. The same is true with the Pats, team building should be continuous, not stop and start by saving cap space one year and rolling it over to next year to spend like drunken sailors. It would be nice to see the Pats have a more mature, continuous team building approach.