PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Monday Patriots Training Camp Thread 7/29

[Wozzy]

They have 80 million of cap room next year. They won’t spend it then any more than they spent it all now.

And why would “overpaying” be any different next year?

You're peering into the future again... and you still haven't given me the winning lottery numbers for this week.

 

[sb1]

Just posting facts......

2022 neophyte Patricia/Judge offense: 21.4 pts/gm
2023 offensive guru BOB offense: 13.9 pts/gm

O'Brien was an offensive guru? Huh. News to me.

It played out better in '22 under Patricia (7.5 pts/game better)

Maybe it would have been even better than 2022 if Bill hadn't already destroyed his young QB's development with the hilariously awful Patricia/Judge experiment and already checked out for the season.

Sidenote :
Correct me if I'm misinformed but wasn't the '23 BOB hire mostly a Kraft induced hire while Bill, whether he was serious or not, had leaked out he would be content letting Fat Matt have another go?

That's right so thank goodness he was fired. For that and a few other reasons.

Fans loved the BOB hire
BOB failed spectacularly
Mac and the entire offense regressed

Funny what happens when your QB and his offense have some of the worst coaching in the NFL over the last couple of years. Also funny that Bill was the only one who thought Patricia/Judge was a good idea. The fans sure didn't and rightfully so.

 

[sb1]

Not throughout but he certainly struggled at times. Some games:

12-24 for 86 yards, 0 TDs
13-23 168 yards 0 TDs
25-38 for 203 yards 2 TDs 4 INTs
19-28 for 218 yards, 0 TDs 2 INTs
17-29 for 198 yards, 1 TD 2 INTs

He had some good games too obviously, but he only threw for more than 300 yards once. Of course, teams were allowed to play pass defense then.

His QB rating for the entire postseason was 77.3

His main virtue that year was game managing and because of that, they could start to win. He wasn't the passing touchdown machine of later years.

Ok but that's not struggling throughout the season as in start to finish. That did not happen.

You're right about the reason why you can't compare eras. Brady certainly started in a different era of the league. He led the league in passing TD in 2002 with 28. I doubt that would lead the league anymore.

 

[Ring 6]

You're peering into the future again... and you still haven't given me the winning lottery numbers for this week.

It isn’t hard to know that if he refuses to spend this year he will next year too. Again lottery numbers are random.

 

[TheRainMaker]

O'Brien was an offensive guru? Huh. News to me.

I'm assuming that was sarcasm. However, if it was serious, it doesn't help the argument that BOB is a "guru" over Patricia and Judge who did better with Jones.

I was one of the rare posters that knew BOB was a fraud and hated the hire. Brady/Gronk/Welker/Hernandez made BOB. That wasn't very difficult to see.

At the end of the day, Jones is just not a good QB and was overdrafted. It happens. In addition, the supporting cast and skill players have been among the worst in the league since 2019 which is still being denied on this board.

 

[sb1]

I'm assuming that was sarcasm. However, if it was serious, it doesn't help the argument that BOB is a "guru" over Patricia and Judge who did better with Jones.

Yeah, it was sarcasm. Since when was BOB a "guru" of anything? He's barely over .500 as a HC and doesn't exactly have the best track record as a GM either.

Patricia and Judge were ridiculous hires by Bill. It's been documented that they were so bad that Belichick himself was offensive playcaller.

Bill Belichick was much more involved in the Patriots' offensive play-calling than it seemed

Bill Belichick effectively torpedoed the Patriots’ 2022 season with his decision to put Matt Patricia and Joe Judge in charge of the offense. The move not only asked way too...

985thesportshub.com

I was one of the rare posters that knew BOB was a fraud and hated the hire. Brady/Gronk/Welker/Hernandez made BOB. That wasn't very difficult to see.

At the end of the day, Jones is just not a good QB and was overdrafted. It happens. In addition, the supporting cast and skill players have been among the worst in the league since 2019 which is still being denied on this board.

Agreed, Jones is not a starting QB. Doesn't have the temperament or the leadership for the job. Didn't help he had abysmal coaching in his time here including his final season where his head coach benched him and stopped talking to him completely. Interesting he was drafted anyway even though his "McEnroe" label (which is not a term of endearment to me) followed him to the NFL from college so surely GM Bill had to know who he was getting. He does have some talent so I think he would be best suited as a backup which he is now and occasionally a spot starter. Brissett made a nice career for himself as a journeyman backup maybe Jones can do the same. As you said it happens, teams miss in the first round all the time. Lots of QB's drafted in the first round don't even get to Jones's level. Ask Bills fans about JP Losman and EJ Manuel or the Broncos about Tebow, the Titans about Locker, Jets about Zach Wilson and so on.

Funny there are still those who insist that it was all Jones's fault last season and actually think they can just swap out the QB and the roster is great. They looked worse with Zappe so it's not all the QB.

 

[Wozzy]

It isn’t hard to know that if he refuses to spend this year he will next year too. Again lottery numbers are random.

4th most in new money this year, he doesn’t spend… your math is horrid.

 

[Wozzy]

I'm assuming that was sarcasm. However, if it was serious, it doesn't help the argument that BOB is a "guru" over Patricia and Judge who did better with Jones.

I was one of the rare posters that knew BOB was a fraud and hated the hire. Brady/Gronk/Welker/Hernandez made BOB. That wasn't very difficult to see.

At the end of the day, Jones is just not a good QB and was overdrafted. It happens. In addition, the supporting cast and skill players have been among the worst in the league since 2019 which is still being denied on this board.

In 2017 the 49ers were 1-10, they were one of the lowest scoring offenses in the NFL flip flopping between Brian Hoyer and CJ Beathard. The team traded for JimmyG. They finished that season going 5-0 and doubling their offensive output.

The 2023 Patriots had the worst starting QB in the NFL and a rookie kicker who couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn. That completely explains why they were a 4 win team and dead last in scoring… TD’s and FG’s are the only way for an offense to score.

There was a lot of dysfunction with last years team and a lot of injury… talent was the least of their problems. Visible in the new regime bringing back every priority free agent they had…. except Mac.

 

[sb1]

talent was the least of their problems

Coaching and GM was the biggest problem. That has been corrected, thankfully.

The 2023 Patriots had the worst starting QB in the NFL and a rookie kicker who couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn. That completely explains why they were a 4 win team and dead last in scoring… TD’s and FG’s are the only way for an offense to score.

Yes Zappe was ranked the worst starting QB in the NFL and I'd say it was by far. Couldn't even score one freaking point against the worst defense in football at home Nice kid but doesn't belong in the NFL and won't be in it for much longer.

In 2017 the 49ers were 1-10, they were one of the lowest scoring offenses in the NFL flip flopping between Brian Hoyer and CJ Beathard. The team traded for JimmyG. They finished that season going 5-0 and doubling their offensive output.

Weird. I know another team that took a very similar path to them...in the 2001 season in fact. They also won a ring.

 

[Wozzy]

Coaching and GM was the biggest problem. That has been corrected, thankfully.

Yeah, BB and Jonathan couldn't coexist anymore... that was clear.

The GM who chose Mac and decided to pay Juju instead of Jakobi is still here though. Hopefully he is learning and refining his process to improve.

Yes Zappe was ranked the worst starting QB in the NFL and I'd say it was by far. Couldn't even score one freaking point against the worst defense in football at home Nice kid but doesn't belong in the NFL and won't be in it for much longer.

Nobody cares about Zappe. But the collaboration obviously thought he was better than Mac, because Mac got shipped out and Zappe is still here.

Weird. I know another team that took a very similar path to them...in the 2001 season in fact. They also won a ring.

Yeah, that team improved a lot. Having a BB drafted HOF rookie DT Richard Seymour go from contributor to starter as the season rolled on helped. Both Seymour and Brady got better, a year of development and adding 20 pounds of muscle really helped Tom.

Good job Bill and Weis, you really nailed it.

 

[sb1]

Yeah, BB and Jonathan couldn't coexist anymore... that was clear.

Yeah I bet JK had enough indeed... BB hiring those two bozos for no good reason other than his ego was no doubt the straw that broke the camels back.

The GM who chose Mac and decided to pay Juju instead of Jakobi is still here though.

The GM who chose Jones in the draft was fired, at least a year after he should have been. Maybe 4 years.

Hopefully he is learning and refining his process to improve.

Nobody cares about Zappe. But the collaboration obviously thought he was better than Mac, because Mac got shipped out and Zappe is still here.

Where would they trade Zappe? Zero teams are interested in him as we saw last summer.

Yeah, that team improved a lot. Having a BB drafted HOF rookie DT Richard Seymour go from contributor to starter as the season rolled on helped. Both Seymour and Brady got better, a year of development and adding 20 pounds of muscle really helped Tom.

Wait so it's not the "team" in San Francisco it's just the QB change and that's it? Weird. Sounds like you were saying something differently earlier.

 

[Wozzy]

Yeah I bet JK had enough indeed... BB hiring those two bozos for no good reason other than his ego was no doubt the straw that broke the camels back.

Borg already slaughtered you with facts how the 22' offense was better than the coordinator Jonathan hired in 23'. Facts suck for you.

The GM who chose Jones in the draft was fired, at least a year after he should have been. Maybe 4 years.

I already provided you multiple sources with links that said Jon and the collaboration chose Mac and Juju... you hate facts.

Where would they trade Zappe? Zero teams are interested in him as we saw last summer.

Zappe is still here, your boy Mac is down in Jacksonville handing out interceptions at camp like Oprah handing out free toasters. He still sucks even though he doesn't have BB holding him back... Blame BB.

Wait so it's not the "team" in San Francisco it's just the QB change and that's it? Weird. Sounds like you were saying something differently earlier.

They didn't win a Super Bowl genius. But yeah, nobody can win with terrible QB play and no field goal kicker.

Here, the mods built you a safe space to whine about the past. Nobody here wants to engage in your douchebaggery. Go there:

Dynasty Years Forum: Tom Brady/Bill Belichick Era

This is the place to come and talk about the two GOATs and relive memories from the New England Patriots Dynasty Years.

www.patsfans.com

BB drafted and developed Brady. Again, facts suck for you.

 

[sb1]

Borg already slaughtered you with facts how the 22' offense was better than the coordinator Jonathan hired in 23'. Facts suck for you.

"Facts"

I already provided you multiple sources with links that said Jon and the collaboration chose Mac and Juju... you hate facts.

Zappe is still here, your boy Mac is down in Jacksonville handing out interceptions at camp like Oprah handing out free toasters. He still sucks even though he doesn't have BB holding him back... Blame BB.

Big time coaching upgrade going to the Jaguars. Can't hurt.

They didn't win a Super Bowl genius. But yeah, nobody can win with terrible QB play and no field goal kicker.

I was talking about the Patriots who did win a Super Bowl. You're telling me "it's the team not the QB" when it comes to the 2001 Pats but for the Niners the QB change did it all. Huh.

Here, the mods built you a safe space to whine about the past. Nobody here wants to engage in your douchebaggery. Go there:

Dynasty Years Forum: Tom Brady/Bill Belichick Era

This is the place to come and talk about the two GOATs and relive memories from the New England Patriots Dynasty Years.

www.patsfans.com

BB drafted and developed Brady. Again, facts suck for you.

BB was fired and is now out of the NFL. There's your facts skippy. And rightfully so. Probably should have been done a lot sooner.

 

[Ring 6]

4th most in new money this year, he doesn’t spend… your math is horrid.

Least money commit to player contracts in the NFL. As always you pick one number out of a complex picture and pretend it’s all that matters.

 

[Wozzy]

Least money commit to player contracts in the NFL. As always you pick one number out of a complex picture and pretend it’s all that matters.

Funny, the guy telling us a one season snapshot is a good representation of cap spending.

Tell us what your sentence above means if you can?

 

[Real fan 02]

I'm counting Gonzalez's return. He didn't even play 1/4 of a season last year. He's no sure thing but should be an upgrade for the group.

Pats had one of the worst special teams in the league last year so losing those guys might not be a bad thing. Kicker was terrible hopefully Ryland feels the pressure for his job and gets better.

Bill may be the GOAT HC but he was not a good coach the last couple of seasons.

There's a reason why was fired and no team wants him.

Lots of question marks.

Good point, those guys were all signed at the same time.

My prediction is they'll eke out 5 wins this time but the offense is watchable which it wasn't last year and we'll have a sense that the needle is pointing up again at the end of the season and hopefully our new QB has more seasoning. Signing a bunch of high priced guys for what they did on other teams in the past and not what they'll do on the Patriots is no guarantee of anything. If there are no game changers out there I'd like to see them develop from within and at least they're trying to do that.

I could just being optimistic.. however I think the offense will be much improved. Polk and baker bring elements thst were sorely lacking the last few seasons at WR. I think they are going to be problems for CBs especially with pop and his elite quickness. I'm expecting the defense to still be good maybe not elite without Barmore but still top 10.

 

[Ring 6]

Free agents or trades.

First this is the Titans. If they could sign all of these guys why couldn’t we? They are no better at Qb and have a brand new coach but they signed
Ridley
Tony pollard
Tucker Boyd
Lloyd Cushenberry (12 mill a year ol)
L’Jarius Sneed by trade
Chidobe Awuzie
Kenneth Murray
Jamal Adams

We could have provably gotten all of them with the 43 mill we have left by outbidding Tennessee, or at least most of them.

Just to expand on this post. Those 8 players added by the Titans took up 46 mill in cap space but after deducting the player they replace in the top 51 would have counted 38 mill and we have 43 mill. left.

So we could have paid them all 10% more than Tennessee did and had the cap room to do it ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE WE DID.
Would the WR be better with Boyd and Ridley? RBs with pollard? OL with Cushrnberry? The secondary with Sneed, Awuzie and Adams added would be incredible. We could sure use a LB like Murray.

Why does Tennessee want to improve more than we do?

 

[Real fan 02]

"Facts"

Big time coaching upgrade going to the Jaguars. Can't hurt.

I was talking about the Patriots who did win a Super Bowl. You're telling me "it's the team not the QB" when it comes to the 2001 Pats but for the Niners the QB change did it all. Huh.



BB was fired and is now out of the NFL. There's your facts skippy. And rightfully so. Probably should have been done a lot sooner.

That's right!