PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Monday Patriots Training Camp Thread 7/29

[Wozzy]

 

[Ring 6]

Tyron Smith would have been GREAT for this team. He is on a cheap one year deal, and could act as a bridge to our LT of the future in 2025. Smith will probably not make it all year, but it is OK if he only makes it half a season because he would be a GREAT veteran bridge. It would allow Wallace to learn from Smith (a GREAT player) and sit for awhile so he does not have to play all season and run into the rookie wall in the second half of the season. Smith would have been great for Wallace. Can not disagree more.

I think you are being cheap like most of this board, something I do not understand. The whole board, including Ian, is making excuses for not paying any supposedly overpriced FAs. No idea why. Simmons and Gilmore would be GREAT for our secondary.

It’s very strange. Coming off a 4 win season and showing very little roster improvement people are concerned about overpaying. Overpaying is a problem when it uses up cap space that could be better spent on other players. Spending cap space you are using on nobody isn’t overpaying.

 

[Ring 6]

Brady sat his rookie year. By year two he went from 4th on the depth chart to 2nd and put on about 20 pounds of muscle.

History doesn't reflect your imagination of how young players are developed and built up.

He would have been better in 2021 if he played in 2020. You just said he improved by playing.

History proves I am right. Players get better by playing football.

 

[Wozzy]

It’s very strange. Coming off a 4 win season and showing very little roster improvement people are concerned about overpaying. Overpaying is a problem when it uses up cap space that could be better spent on other players. Spending cap space you are using on nobody isn’t overpaying.

So the money spent on Riley Reiff last year was money well spent, simply because he was a good player years ago?

The Patriots spent the 4th most in new money this year, there’s nobody left to spend it on. All the free agents are gone… except for some fossils.

You took Mayo literally when he said they would burn some cash… you actually want to throw it in the incinerator.

 

[Wozzy]

He would have been better in 2021 if he played in 2020. You just said he improved by playing.

Who? I have no idea who you’re talking about in 2021.

History proves I am right. Players get better by playing football.

Coaches know coaching, fans know how to be fans. Let’s leave it at that…

 

[KCSVEN]

It’s very strange. Coming off a 4 win season and showing very little roster improvement people are concerned about overpaying. Overpaying is a problem when it uses up cap space that could be better spent on other players. Spending cap space you are using on nobody isn’t overpaying.

They get to roll the unused cap space to 2025, so it's possible to use it in 2025 and the money will be better spent than overpaying someone in 2024.

 

[sb1]

Coaches know coaching, fans know how to be fans.

Except when it comes to a coach hiring two failed defensive coaches who don't know a thing about offense...to run this team's offense. Fans knew it was an awful idea. A certain coach thought it was a good idea and well we know how it played out. Not a surprise at all. So Coaches don't always know coaching and in that case fans knew better.

 

[Ian]

That is probably true, but not the same as your former argument that "only spending for the sake of spending" does not make sense.

I was referring to spending on other players who may not have spurned them but who the team felt weren’t worth the money.

 

[borg]

Just posting facts......

Except when it comes to a coach hiring two failed defensive coaches who don't know a thing about offense...to run this team's offense.

2022 neophyte Patricia/Judge offense: 21.4 pts/gm
2023 offensive guru BOB offense: 13.9 pts/gm

A certain coach thought it was a good idea and well we know how it played out.

It played out better in '22 under Patricia (7.5 pts/game better)

Sidenote:
Correct me if I'm misinformed but wasn't the '23 BOB hire mostly a Kraft induced hire while Bill, whether he was serious or not, had leaked out he would be content letting Fat Matt have another go?

So Coaches don't always know coaching and in that case fans knew better.

Fans loved the BOB hire
BOB failed spectacularly
Mac and the entire offense regressed

 

[rochrist]

Sure Brady "struggled throughout 2001". Lol. Lol.

#RevisionistHistory

Not throughout but he certainly struggled at times. Some games:

12-24 for 86 yards, 0 TDs
13-23 168 yards 0 TDs
25-38 for 203 yards 2 TDs 4 INTs
19-28 for 218 yards, 0 TDs 2 INTs
17-29 for 198 yards, 1 TD 2 INTs

He had some good games too obviously, but he only threw for more than 300 yards once. Of course, teams were allowed to play pass defense then.

His QB rating for the entire postseason was 77.3

His main virtue that year was game managing and because of that, they could start to win. He wasn't the passing touchdown machine of later years.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I was referring to spending on other players who may not have spurned them but who the team felt weren’t worth the money.

That is a pretty complicated guess. I would not have thought about it to such detail.

 

[Wozzy]

They get to roll the unused cap space to 2025, so it's possible to use it in 2025 and the money will be better spent than overpaying someone in 2024.

This is what he seemingly doesn't grasp.

In the 2025 there will be a completely new class of free agents to choose from.

If there's no great player to pay in 2024, you don't overpay just anybody so you can say you spent money.

 

[Wozzy]

Not throughout but he certainly struggled at times. Some games:

12-24 for 86 yards, 0 TDs
13-23 168 yards 0 TDs
25-38 for 203 yards 2 TDs 4 INTs
19-28 for 218 yards, 0 TDs 2 INTs
17-29 for 198 yards, 1 TD 2 INTs

He had some good games too obviously, but he only threw for more than 300 yards once. Of course, teams were allowed to play pass defense then.

His QB rating for the entire postseason was 77.3

His main virtue that year was game managing and because of that, they could start to win. He wasn't the passing touchdown machine of later years.

Don't ruin his childhood memories, he thinks Tom arrived like a hurricane and blew the entire league away. Nostalgia is a hell of a thing...

 

[Wozzy]

Just posting facts......

2022 neophyte Patricia/Judge offense: 21.4 pts/gm
2023 offensive guru BOB offense: 13.9 pts/gm

It played out better in '22 under Patricia (7.5 pts/game better)

Sidenote:
Correct me if I'm misinformed but wasn't the '23 BOB hire mostly a Kraft induced hire while Bill, whether he was serious or not, had leaked out he would be content letting Fat Matt have another go?

Fans loved the BOB hire
BOB failed spectacularly
Mac and the entire offense regressed

@sb1 Owned.

 

[Zuma]

@Ring 6

 

[Ring 6]

So the money spent on Riley Reiff last year was money well spent, simply because he was a good player years ago?

The Patriots spent the 4th most in new money this year, there’s nobody left to spend it on. All the free agents are gone… except for some fossils.

You took Mayo literally when he said they would burn some cash… you actually want to throw it in the incinerator.

Your argument says Riley Reiff means you should never pay any players.
There were dozens of good players on the market. None are Riley Reiff

They spent the 4th most(if that’s true) because they had almost no one under contract. Their payroll expense for this year and going forward is the lowest in the nfl.

I don’t want it to sit in Bob Krafts pocket when other teams are signing players that would make us better.
Might as well incinerate it because Kraft won’t spend it.

 

[Ring 6]

Who? I have no idea who you’re talking about in 2021.

Coaches know coaching, fans know how to be fans. Let’s leave it at that…

So I can conclude you aren’t a coach so you know nothing?

 

[Ring 6]

They get to roll the unused cap space to 2025, so it's possible to use it in 2025 and the money will be better spent than overpaying someone in 2024.

They have 80 million of cap room next year. They won’t spend it then any more than they spent it all now.

And why would “overpaying” be any different next year?

 

[Wozzy]

Your argument says Riley Reiff means you should never pay any players.
There were dozens of good players on the market. None are Riley Reiff

My argument says paying someone old and broken down just so you can sign "a name" is not smart.

And yeah, I asked you for some free agents they should have paid this offseason. You sidestepped that like an adult playing dodgeball with five year olds.

 

[Wozzy]

So I can conclude you aren’t a coach so you know nothing?

No, because I'm not claiming to know better than coaches, or a time tested process of letting players earn their stripes rather than just handing it to them.