Damien Harris speaks out about the dysfunction on the Patriots offense in 2022

[lancerman]

The environment Bill created only exacerbated Mac's short comings, which is why he lost his job.

My point is directly aimed at Damien Harris almost totally absolving Mac from any involvement of his own demise. To me anyway, that's lazy and not true. Pre-draft his biggest concerns came to life Infront of our eyes. He's not the first , first round QB who ended up sucking - and he won't be the last. Just have to hope Maye doesn't follow the trend.

Obviously Mac has some culpability in his failure. But we also know that development is huge for a QB to succeed. We also know that with young QB's, it's very rare to see even the greatest overcome a poor supporting cast on offense. Bill Belichick handicapped him in both departments. He was never going to succeed in that scenario unless he was a world class prospect who was fail proof like Peyton Manning or John Elway.

Most QB's need the correct development to pan out.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

I think what we witnessed was a perfect ****storm of many different variables that no one could have seen. I guess the years of extraordinary play and coaching caught up with the team and the bad juju monster (no relation to JSS of course) finally came to collect.

 

[signbabybrady]

A few months ago he calls him the greatest X and Os coach who ever lived.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Both these things can be true. Harris likely is aware of everything he did prior to his arrival, and obviously knows about after his arrival.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I don't doubt that it was; how much it was is the only question. Didn't Bill get to pocket the difference if his coaching staff was under budget?
What a terrible, terrible incentive if true.

The idea that BB's salary was paid as part of a budget line item for coaches doesn't make sense. RKK's intervention bringing back JMD, signing JMD and Mayo to coach in waiting contracts and forcing the OC issue with BOB would not have happened if this was true. The real problem is that BB's method for developing coaches from low level assistants could not keep up with the brain drain after his circle of friends began to age out.

 

[203Pat]

Maybe it’s just me but I find it really hard to believe an nfl team pays this little. I can believe that these underlings are being paid a fraction of what BB made sure but it wasn’t peanuts. You could not survive on that in the region. Couple that with being unable to work a second job due to long hours. Only way someone could survive with such **** wages is if they had a better half or came from $ to begin with which is probably the case for these guys.

Maybe the guys saying they aren’t getting paid **** just THINK they should be getting a lot more which does happen a lot, been there done that. Just spitballing here, don’t lynch me…

I obviously have no inside knowledge and maybe some of it is over exaggerated but there was those reports from Wickersham that they don't even make minimum wage when it all breaks down. With that being said I do remember some rumor about Bill giving the low level guys envelopes full of cash out of his own pocket at the end of the season. That is what makes me think it's a "pay your dues"/"how much do you want it?" type of thing.

Furthermore, Belichick was known for underpaying coaches. There were two nicknames for lower-level staff in New England: "PHDs" for "poor, hungry, and driven" and "20/20s," young coaches working 20 hours a day for $20,000 a year.

 

[sb1]

In the same interview Harris said he enjoyed playing for Bill. So these takes from him aren't hating on Bill at all.. they're calling it like he saw it from being there.

 

[signbabybrady]

I obviously have no inside knowledge and maybe some of it is over exaggerated but there was those reports from Wickersham that they don't even make minimum wage when it all breaks down. With that being said I do remember some rumor about Bill giving the low level guys envelopes full of cash out of his own pocket at the end of the season. That is what makes me think it's a "pay your dues"/"how much do you want it?" type of thing.

Furthermore, Belichick was known for underpaying coaches. There were two nicknames for lower-level staff in New England: "PHDs" for "poor, hungry, and driven" and "20/20s," young coaches working 20 hours a day for $20,000 a year.

What's the surprise we all know Kraft is cheap?

 

[mrbean]

I think this is very true. Flores, Patricia, Judge, all took people, and then Josh McD took whatever was left over. Sure, Patricia and Judge came back, but their whole staffs didn’t. Seems to me like he changed up the offense in ‘22 because he had no choice. He let Josh walk out of here with a lot of people. I don’t know the behind the scenes scoop or whatever, but I don’t think he was truly prepared for Josh walking at all. He certainly wasn’t going to steal BoB from Alabama that year. That offense that everyone laments was still middle of the pack in PPG with a first time play caller and a bratty second year QB pitching fits on the field and they were still a botched lateral away from making the playoffs again. Doesn’t say much about the other 15 teams I guess.

I don’t know what happened in ‘23, but it was obvious from training camp onwards the line was going to be an issue with injuries. Seemed like the new o-line coach gave up on the team halfway into the season. Our only healthy receiver was a rookie from Liberty.

 

[DaBruinz]

The idea that BB's salary was paid as part of a budget line item for coaches doesn't make sense. RKK's intervention bringing back JMD, signing JMD and Mayo to coach in waiting contracts and forcing the OC issue with BOB would not have happened if this was true. The real problem is that BB's method for developing coaches from low level assistants could not keep up with the brain drain after his circle of friends began to age out.

I don't remember it being KRAFT intervening and bringing back McDaniels. I agree that the Contract he signed McDaniels to was an issue. As was McDaniels not committing to the team for more than 1 year with a new f'in QB. Having McD as the OC in 2022 would have made a world of difference and Jones may have advanced in his development.

I was a "wait and see" guy with Patricia/Judge on the offense. Bourne alluded to many of the same things we heard from Harris. Patricia clearly over-promised and under-delivered. The fact he was so stubborn to refuse help from 2 of the guys who actually had PLAYED in the system and ended up alienating both of them speaks volumes. It would not surprise me if Patricia was the one behind the switching of Brown and Wynn, hence alienating him as well.

As I look back, BB TOLD us that he was going to be an issue when he made that statement about working with guys that he felt he could work with. That statement was the anti-Belichick that we'd known. Maybe he said it because of Kraft. Maybe he said it because of Brady. Maybe he said it because of McDaniels. I don't know. It doesn't matter now.

What matters now is that we have MAYO. It's a clean slate and he's got big shoes to fill. He needs to be given leeway to make mistakes. I know that some people on here won't do that and I'm certain those same people will be the ones who were clamoring for BBs head 4 years ago when Brady left.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I don't remember it being KRAFT intervening and bringing back McDaniels. I agree that the Contract he signed McDaniels to was an issue. As was McDaniels not committing to the team for more than 1 year with a new f'in QB. Having McD as the OC in 2022 would have made a world of difference and Jones may have advanced in his development.

I was a "wait and see" guy with Patricia/Judge on the offense. Bourne alluded to many of the same things we heard from Harris. Patricia clearly over-promised and under-delivered. The fact he was so stubborn to refuse help from 2 of the guys who actually had PLAYED in the system and ended up alienating both of them speaks volumes. It would not surprise me if Patricia was the one behind the switching of Brown and Wynn, hence alienating him as well.

As I look back, BB TOLD us that he was going to be an issue when he made that statement about working with guys that he felt he could work with. That statement was the anti-Belichick that we'd known. Maybe he said it because of Kraft. Maybe he said it because of Brady. Maybe he said it because of McDaniels. I don't know. It doesn't matter now.

What matters now is that we have MAYO. It's a clean slate and he's got big shoes to fill. He needs to be given leeway to make mistakes. I know that some people on here won't do that and I'm certain those same people will be the ones who were clamoring for BBs head 4 years ago when Brady left.

Agreed. We'll always have a backward-looking fight on here from here on in, but I am looking forward to this staff feeling its way. With a new QB (at the moment, a prospect) in the wings along with a new staff and some new faces in the receiving corps, I am looking forward to seeing how far this team goes. If it's another terrible year then hey, that's another high pick to grab a left tackle

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I don't remember it being KRAFT intervening and bringing back McDaniels. I agree that the Contract he signed McDaniels to was an issue. As was McDaniels not committing to the team for more than 1 year with a new f'in QB. Having McD as the OC in 2022 would have made a world of difference and Jones may have advanced in his development.

I was a "wait and see" guy with Patricia/Judge on the offense. Bourne alluded to many of the same things we heard from Harris. Patricia clearly over-promised and under-delivered. The fact he was so stubborn to refuse help from 2 of the guys who actually had PLAYED in the system and ended up alienating both of them speaks volumes. It would not surprise me if Patricia was the one behind the switching of Brown and Wynn, hence alienating him as well.

As I look back, BB TOLD us that he was going to be an issue when he made that statement about working with guys that he felt he could work with. That statement was the anti-Belichick that we'd known. Maybe he said it because of Kraft. Maybe he said it because of Brady. Maybe he said it because of McDaniels. I don't know. It doesn't matter now.

What matters now is that we have MAYO. It's a clean slate and he's got big shoes to fill. He needs to be given leeway to make mistakes. I know that some people on here won't do that and I'm certain those same people will be the ones who were clamoring for BBs head 4 years ago when Brady left.

My recollection is that RKK reached out to JMD to bring him back. Regardless your points about BB focusing on what he liked vs winning and the need to support Mayo are spot on.

 

[ahmed]

Damn this is still going....

 

[ahmed]

I think what we witnessed was a perfect ****storm of many different variables that no one could have seen. I guess the years of extraordinary play and coaching caught up with the team and the bad juju monster (no relation to JSS of course) finally came to collect.

I was not going to comment until this. This ****storm was very much easy to see coming. Well maybe not last year's record but still close.

1) Almost no team gets hall of fame QB replacement right (ex. Packers) which makes pushing Brady out that much worse

2) Several years of poor drafts left a lot to be desired with talent

3) Ever shrinking coaching staff

4) Judge and Patricia

5) Jones was obviously not the guy from the word go

6) BB's stubbornness which got way worse in the last few years

7) BB's tough love approach that really only works when you are winning

 

[sb1]

5) Jones was obviously not the guy from the word go

Not sure about the word go but the 3 pass game did it for me. They won with Jones doing literally next to nothing. That also told me Bill and the team didn't think he was the guy. You'd ask a Brissett or another game manager QB to do something like that...not the guy who you want to be your franchise QB.

So obviously BB did what all genius coaches/GMs do and hire two failed coaches out of their element to "develop" his second year QB.

 

[archstanton543]

Not sure about the word go but the 3 pass game did it for me. They won with Jones doing literally next to nothing. That also told me Bill and the team didn't think he was the guy. You'd ask a Brissett or another game manager QB to do something like that...not the guy who you want to be your franchise QB.

So obviously BB did what all genius coaches/GMs do and hire two failed coaches out of their element to "develop" his second year QB.

The Pats under BB were a week-to-week gameplan team. The gameplan called for thar and that's what they did.

Oh, and they WON the gane!

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

The Pats under BB were a week-to-week gameplan team. The gameplan called for thar and that's what they did.

Oh, and they WON the gane!

If they would have passed more, they would’ve lost. I’ve got no issue with that gameplan. Unsexy but a win is a win.

 

[1960Pats]

I don't doubt that it was; how much it was is the only question. Didn't Bill get to pocket the difference if his coaching staff was under budget?
What a terrible, terrible incentive if true.

I started a thread a while back asking if that was true or not. It didn't go over very well but it's a damn good question and a bad idea if true, especially since Bill had his kids on the payroll.

 

[Triumph]

The pinnacle of dysfunction.

 

[sb1]

The Pats under BB were a week-to-week gameplan team. The gameplan called for thar and that's what they did.

Oh, and they WON the gane!

They did win the game but it literally showed they didn't need Jones to win. I still think that game ended his ROY candidacy all on its own.