Are We Really Ready At Defensive Back?

[captain stone]

One of my pet-peeves with a position that was available in FA that they could have addressed but didn't, was a true FS. There were two young (young enough to be a part of the next contender) and talented FS's that wouldn't have broken the bank (especially considering that their contacts would have seemed like a bargain in a couple of years, as is usually the case). Perhaps one of the young corners with sufficient size and such can be successfully converted to the next solid FS (and that might very well be the plan), but until that happens, I'm leery of the FS position on the defense.

while I agree Austin played fairly well last season, I also believe he was a street free agent well into the season for a reason. lets face it, he played here because there was no one else due to injury, suspension and trade. I also do not see the speed you allude to.

for me I would like to see;
1) Gonzo
2) Wilson
3) Jon Jones
4) Marcus Jones
5) vet similar to Mills/Bryant-versatile. good tackler.
6) Austin
7) Wade
8) Boldin

There might be an up-tick in free agent signings after the weekend; let's hope our FO isn't asleep at the wheel...

 

[mgteich]

Marcus is a sensational athlete. I love his game. He's undersized as a CB on the outside and I get Ellia Hobbs vibes whenever he lined up on the outside. I love him in the slot where he can use his range of motion, natural instincts and ball skills. He's also an all pro special teams ace. He abs was missed last season. I'm hyped about Marcus too. I believe pop will be our best slot WR, but he will take alot of hits. I've been wide awake on him.. never.. sleeping...

Are you OK with Jon Jones as a starter on the outside opposite Gonzo. That's reasonable if we think that Marcus is a starter as our starting nickel corner.

 

[Real fan 02]

while I agree Austin played fairly well last season, I also believe he was a street free agent well into the season for a reason. lets face it, he played here because there was no one else due to injury, suspension and trade. I also do not see the speed you allude to.

for me I would like to see;
1) Gonzo
2) Wilson
3) Jon Jones
4) Marcus Jones
5) vet similar to Mills/Bryant-versatile. good tackler.
6) Austin
7) Wade
8) Boldin

I agree on your initial post. But I mean Stevie wonder can see the kid has talent. In a talent devoided team last season he was one of the bright spots.. I've included the film on him. We know what we are getting from Gonzo, J. Jones. The questions are surrounding the younger players Wade showed some things finally. I'm told Marco Wilson is a player don't know much about his game. So speaking for myself I like Austin and what he could potentially be across from gonzo.. as I've said you want big cover CBs on the outside.. that's what made Seattle so good when they had Sherman and browner.

 

[Real fan 02]

Are you OK with Jon Jones as a starter on the outside opposite Gonzo. That's reasonable if we think that Marcus is a starter as our starting nickel corner.

I am. J. Jones can play outside. I can forsee Gonzo- LCB, Marcus, slot, Jon jones/Austin- * at RCB. That depth CB/ starter opposite Gonzo is going to be a battle for sure.

 

[mgteich]

There might be an up-tick in free agent signings after the weekend; let's hope our FO isn't asleep at the wheel...

I submit that those who think that June 1st is an important date are those asleep at the wheel.

Any player cut before June 1 could have been designated as a "post June 1st cut" and the dead money spread into 2025.

I suspect that same is true of trades.

In any case, I do expect that the front office is always looking, much as the back office is working on extensions.

I would like to see us add a RB, CB, S and/or DL.

 

[Real fan 02]

I submit that those who think that June 1st is an important date are those asleep at the wheel.

Any player cut before June 1 could have been designated as a "post June 1st cut" and the dead money spread into 2025.

I suspect that same is true of trades.

In any case, I do expect that the front office is always looking, much as the back office is working on extensions.

I would like to see us add a RB, CB, S and/or DL.

Are we even at the 90 man roster yet? Gilmore has expressed he's interested in coming back here.. I believe he waits until camp.. vets hate training camp.. so I don't blame him.

 

[mgteich]

I am. J. Jones can play outside. I can forsee Gonzo- LCB, Marcus, slot, Jon jones/Austin- * at RCB. That depth CB/ starter opposite Gonzo is going to be a battle for sure.

If we are fine with Jon starting at outside CB and Marcus at NB, then we are in fine shape, with the 3 starters set.

I'm fine with the list of BACKUPS
Wilson (a 3-year starter)
Austin (looked good when put in)
Bolden (KR and was ready to make the team in 2023)
Wade (OK as a #5, a veteran that was OK when called upon)
Dial (this year's shot in the dark; could be the #10 DB (doubling as a prospect and emergency backup at CB and S)

 

[Wozzy]

Oh I agree Wozzy. I guess I'm just going off of what I saw last season of all the young guys he was the one that made the most of his opportunities. He was a starter on the outside by seasoned end. I admit I don't know much about Wilson.. I'm just leaning towards Austin becuase I like what I've seen from him and he just seems to have natural ability In his all around game. We have a nice stable of young guys all trying to make thier mark in the league. I believe Wade is veteran in the group right 4 years in?

Austin made one start last year because they were desperate at the position and it was a lost season. I don't think he's worthless, as your 6th CB fine, but placing him opposite Gonzo seems like a stretch.

Wade started six games and would have started more but he got injured, there's a better chance he's starting on the other side or at free safety. I understand that measurables and speed at the combine do not determine how great a player will be, but they can't be dismissed either. If Myles Bryant ran two tenths of a second faster he would have been Jon Jones, but he can't.

 

[Wozzy]

There might be an up-tick in free agent signings after the weekend; let's hope our FO isn't asleep at the wheel...

The UFL championship game is June 16th, NFL teams can't sign those free agents until after that game. They should really consider some of that league's best players.

This is a copy/paste job from earlier.

Hakeem Butler is looking good at WR, leads the league in yards and he is supremely talented at 6'4" tall and fast. Maybe his time on NFL rosters helped him, he had hands issues before but according to FOX Sport's stats he has caught a high amount of his targets.

Kai Nacua is Puka's brother and leads the UFL in interceptions and is also a plus athlete, he has earned himself a camp invite at the very least and he plays free safety... I'd put the Patriots on the list of teams who should at least be interested.

Carlos Davis is the twin brother of Khalil Davis, he leads the UFL in sacks and is also a plus athlete at DT. I'd love it if the Patriots brought all three of these guys above into camp.

The Pat's don't need another QB in camp, but Luis Perez is the best passer in the UFL, some QB needy team should give him a shot.

Also I admit I didn't scout their offensive linemen... there may an offensive tackle they should be bringing in from that league.

 

[Real fan 02]

Austin made one start last year because they were desperate at the position and it was a lost season. I don't think he's worthless, as your 6th CB fine, but placing him opposite Gonzo seems like a stretch.

Wade started six games and would have started more but he got injured, there's a better chance he's starting on the other side or at free safety. I understand that measurables and speed at the combine do not determine how great a player will be, but they can't be dismissed either. If Myles Bryant ran two tenths of a second faster he would have been Jon Jones, but he can't.

As a legendary coach said It’s not where your drafted it's what u do when get here. Currently we don't know for sure who will emerge. You would say based on his proven play as a veteran Jon Jones is the guy opposite Gonzo.. but I truly really don't know. All the young guys got time to play last season and they all did well. So we have to see who separates themselves in camp.

 

[Wozzy]

As a legendary coach said It’s not where your drafted it's what u do when get here. Currently we don't know for sure who will emerge. You would say based on his proven play as a veteran Jon Jones is the guy opposite Gonzo.. but I truly really don't know. All the young guys got time to play last season and they all did well. So we have to see who separates themselves in camp.

They definitely have better options now than before, it would be a luxury to start Gonzo and Marco Wilson on the borders and move Jon Jones back inside to his more natural slot position.

They might also value Jon Jones experience and brains and slide him over to free safety, they could use a coach on the field back there.

 

[mgteich]

The UFL championship game is June 16th, NFL teams can't sign those free agents until after that game. They should really consider some of that leagues best players.

This is a copy/paste job from earlier.

Hakeem Butler is looking good at WR, leads the league in yards and he is supremely talented at 6'4" tall and fast. Maybe his time on NFL rosters helped him, he had hands issues before but according to FOX Sport's stats he has caught a high amount of his targets.

Kai Nacua is Puka's brother and leads the UFL in interceptions and is also a plus athlete, he has earned himself a camp invite at the very least and he plays free safety... I'd put the Patriots on the list of teams who should at least be interested.

Carlos Davis is the twin brother of Khalil Davis, he leads the UFL in sacks and is also a plus athlete at DT. I'd love it if the Patriots brought all three of these guys above into camp.

The Pat's don't need another QB in camp, but Luis Perez is the best passer in the UFL, some QB needy team should give him a shot.

Also I admit I didn't scout their offensive linemen... there may an offensive tackle they should be bringing in from that league.

Oh, it is UFL players that you want.

Please list all the UFL players that started in the NFL.

OK, starting is a stretch. Please all the UFL players who made the 53-man rosters to start last year.

 

[Wozzy]

Oh, it is UFL players that you want.

Please list all the UFL players that started in the NFL.

OK, starting is a stretch. Please all the UFL players who made the 53-man rosters to start last year.

I just listed the players I want above.

The UFL is a developmental league, no different from Canada or other leagues before it. Refining young and rough players is it's designed purpose.

 

[Real fan 02]

They definitely have better options now than before, it would be a luxury to start Gonzo and Marco Wilson on the borders and move Jon Jones back inside to his more natural slot position.

They might also value Jon Jones experience and brains and slide him over to free safety, they could use a coach on the field back there.

That's right J. Jones at FS very intriguing he's played there before over the years. I believe he'd probably be given first crack at it. We have a deep group of CBs.. so gonzo and possibly Austin someone on the outside peppers, Jones, Dugger at safety?

 

[mgteich]

They definitely have better options now than before, it would be a luxury to start Gonzo and Marco Wilson on the borders and move Jon Jones back inside to his more natural slot position.

They might also value Jon Jones experience and brains and slide him over to free safety, they could use a coach on the field back there.

They definitely have better options now than before, it would be a luxury to start Gonzo and Marco Wilson on the borders and move Jon Jones back inside to his more natural slot position.

They might also value Jon Jones experience and brains and slide him over to free safety, they could use a coach on the field back there.

If they value Jon's experience and brains, they will start him as a corner. You do realize that switching Jones to corner would greatly diminish his playing time. We have two very capable safeties who will start and should play 90% of defensive snaps.

 

[Wozzy]

If they value Jon's experience and brains, they will start him as a corner. You do realize that switching Jones to corner would greatly diminish his playing time. We have two very capable safeties who will start and should play 90% of defensive snaps.

"Switching Jones to corner," did you mean free safety?

We have Duggar and Peppers, neither of whom is an ideal free safety, both are better at strong safety and on a defense that traditionally over the year has employed three.

 

[mgteich]

"Switching Jones to corner," did you mean free safety?

We have Duggar and Peppers, neither of whom is an ideal free safety, both are better at strong safety and on a defense that traditionally over the year has employed three.

Yes, free safety. If Jones moved, he would essentially become a backup, playing fewer than 50% of the defensive reps.

I think that the reality is the secondary coaches are fine with having Dugger and Peppers play over 90+% of the reps every game that they are available. I suspect think that the secondary will be effective as long as they get good play from beyond the top four starters.

I think that the staff is fine with Jon Jones playing 90+% of the reps, starting at corner, as well as Gonzo playing 90+% of defensive reps.
=====
SO, TO START
We have Jon Jones, Gonzo, Peppers and Dugger all expected to play all the reps for which they are available.

As is, someone (or two) will be the 5th starter (nickel, 2 outside CB's, and 2 S). IMO, we should have a decision for only one starting roster spot. If you move Jon Jones, he is no longer a starter, and we now need two starting CB's.

DEPENDING ON WHERE JON JONES STARTS THE FIFTH STARTER COULD BEs
slot CB Marcus Jones
slot CB Wade
outside CB Wilson
Outside CB Austin
Outside CB Bolden
free agent CB Gilmore

BACKUPS
We have lots of possible backups at CB.
My issue is that I would like to have another backup S (preferably a free safety)

 

[Wozzy]

Yes, free safety. If Jones moved, he would essentially become a backup, playing fewer than 50% of the defensive reps.

Devin McCourty led the Patriots in defensive snaps for a decade, or was close to it. You put your best players on the field.

I think that the reality is the secondary coaches are fine with having Dugger and Peppers play over 90+% of the reps every game that they are available. I suspect think that the secondary will be effective as long as they get good play from beyond the top four starters.

Mapu may be a weak side linebacker now, but he still factors into snap's played if he makes the second year leap rookies have to make to be good/great. if he becomes a starter or max snap guy, they play Duggar Peppers and Mapu as a LB, but titles be damned... they don't want other teams deciphering who the SS, LB or even FS is on a given play. The Pat's D have disguised that better than anyone over the last two decades.

I think that the staff is fine with Jon Jones playing 90+% of the reps, starting at corner, as well as Gonzo playing 90+% of defensive reps.

Somebody will have to play free safety, I didn't give him the job; Jon Jones, Shaun Wade, Marcellas Dial, Isaiah Bolden, Azizi Hearn... any of these guys potentially has the athleticism to do it.

Jon Jones is faster than any of them and you want speed at the position. He's more experienced, can play facing the offense and cover. I don't know what his thoughts on the idea are, but they might also have somebody slotted there in their minds. Either way, camp competition will sort it out.

=====
SO, TO START
We have Jon Jones, Gonzo, Peppers and Dugger all expected to play all the reps for which they are available.

As is, someone (or two) will be the 5th starter (nickel, 2 outside CB's, and 2 S). IMO, we should have a decision for only one starting roster spot. If you move Jon Jones, he is no longer a starter, and we now need two starting CB's.

DEPENDING ON WHERE JON JONES STARTS THE FIFTH STARTER COULD BEs
slot CB Marcus Jones
slot CB Wade
outside CB Wilson
Outside CB Austin
Outside CB Bolden
free agent CB Gilmore

BACKUPS
We have lots of possible backups at CB.
My issue is that I would like to have another backup S (preferably a free safety)

This is my projected depth chart with Jon at FS for kicks, I added weak side linebacker to the group since we're talking about coverage mainly and Mapu is a hybrid.

WLB – Marte Mapu, Sione Takitaki, Christian Elliss, Joe Giles-Harris (PS),
SS – Kyle Dugger, Jabrill Peppers, Brenden Schooler, Jaylinn Hawkins, Josh Bledsoe, Dell Pettus (PS),
FS – Jonathan Jones/Shaun Wade,
BIG CB – Christian Gonzalez, Marco Wilson, Marcellas Dial, Isaiah Bolden, Azizi Hearn, Alex Austin (PS),
SLOT CB – Marcus Jones, Kaleb Ford-Dement (PS),

Brenden Schooler and Jaylinn Hawkins mostly play special teams, but one or the other could be a break glass in case of emergency replacement.

 

[captain stone]

I submit that those who think that June 1st is an important date are those asleep at the wheel.

Any player cut before June 1 could have been designated as a "post June 1st cut" and the dead money spread into 2025.

Correct. However, teams using that method (higher-payroll teams, e.g., which in many cases means good teams) cannot take advantage of the savings until after June 1st, whereupon it becomes more of a seller's market.

In any case, I do expect that the front office is always looking...

Evidence?

 

[mgteich]

Correct. However, teams using that method (higher-payroll teams, e.g., which in many cases means good teams) cannot take advantage of the savings until after June 1st, whereupon it becomes more of a seller's market.



Evidence?