PATRIOTS NEWS OTAs 5/20/24

[Force Zero Boomer]

I get not wanting to rush Maye. And if he's not ready then he's not ready. But Zappe and Jacoby aren't really stiff competition so yes if Maye doesn't beat one or both of these guys in camp then I will be mildly concerned. I won't make any big judgements but concern will creep up. And especially so if he hasn't passed one or both by mid-season.

I suspect Maye will beat out everyone, but still not start, for reasons that I have already pointed out over and over. Perhaps he’ll start games midway through the season. There is zero reason for concern even if he is QB3 to start the season.

Also your second paragraph is just garbage Mac did not get ruined by playing too soon or by the talent around. My opinion is he just didn't have what it takes he came in as advertised which was ready to play but clearly he had a low ceiling.

I never said anything about Mac playing too soon. He was ruined by having to adopt a new offense under a defensive coordinator for a team with declining offensive talent. This culminated in the disaster of last year: another new system under a new OC with the worst talent in the league. He was running for his life most of the season. He broke mentally under the strain.

Mac’s ceiling seems immaterial to this discussion, but his first season is probably near his ceiling, and that was good. His last season was a direct result of Belichick disastrous final few years as GM.

But putting my opinion aside playing too soon didn't break him if anything ruined him it was the multiple coaching changes at OC and specifically the one decision to go with Matty P that Mac fought basically right away that ruined him.

Again, I never said anything about Mac playing too soon. That is your invention. It seems we may agree on some of the causes of Mac’s downfall as a player. I hope he is able to put it back together.

 

[DarrylS]

Listening to 98.5 today to hear their version of the OTA's, instead I got a steady diet of "nattering nabobs of negativity" about how the Pats could loose their first 8 games, blah, blah, blah.. Bertram loves to wallow in the pig crap.
It turned into something that was completely unlistenable as the nontroversies just kept on coming..

 

[signbabybrady]

I suspect Maye will beat out everyone, but still not start, for reasons that I have already pointed out over and over. Perhaps he’ll start games midway through the season. There is zero reason for concern even if he is QB3 to start the season.

I never said anything about Mac playing too soon. He was ruined by having to adopt a new offense under a defensive coordinator for a team with declining offensive talent. This culminated in the disaster of last year: another new system under a new OC with the worst talent in the league. He was running for his life most of the season. He broke mentally under the strain.

Mac’s ceiling seems immaterial to this discussion, but his first season is probably near his ceiling, and that was good. His last season was a direct result of Belichick disastrous final few years as GM.

Again, I never said anything about Mac playing too soon. That is your invention. It seems we may agree on some of the causes of Mac’s downfall as a player. I hope he is able to put it back together.

Sorry if I misunderstood your point:

"don't want to have the franchise QB seriously injured before the line and WR corps establish themselves."

But this certainly seems like you're taking things other than who is the best player into consideration when considering how early to play a young QB.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

I mean, if you’re Thornton and you’re “saddled with a lesser QB” it’s because you’re playing like a lesser WR.

don’t get pissed, get better. Oops, have had years to get better and didn’t. Hang them up and go cry in your beer. Or show your stuff and earn playing time.

Alternatively, what is more important? Getting Drake Maye locked in with new form and footwork, or getting him out there before he’s solid so that “Tiny Hands” Thornton can get some good balls thrown his way (to drop)?

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Sorry if I misunderstood your point:

"don't want to have the franchise QB seriously injured before the line and WR corps establish themselves."

But this certainly seems like you're taking things other than who is the best player into consideration when considering how early to play a young QB.

Yes, exactly. Especially in the context of where the team is right now with new coach, new system, uncertainty at key offensive positions, etc. I have no doubt Drake Maye is the best player, but the goal is to help elevate him to greatness. If he gets that form and footwork down, he could be great. I just don’t want them to blow it. He has all the intangibles and the physical talent to be a top 5 QB. He’s 21, we can wait until mid season.

 

[50-yard-line]

If JJSS is back to full speed...

We have JJSS, KB, KJO - all vet solid #2's

We have Thornton, Douglas, Polk, Baker...then Boutte and Reagor?

That's a crowded room. Way too crowded. Nine guys. You won't hold Polk, Baker, or Douglas on a PS...they'd get snatched up in a heartbeat. That position is going to be very interesting over the summer.

I don't see how they keep all 3 of the vets. They didn't take Polk at 37 to let him get scooped off their PS. Same with Baker, and I doubt they want to lose Douglas after his promising first year. If Thornton shows anything in camp, it gets even crazier.

 

[signbabybrady]

Yes, exactly. Especially in the context of where the team is right now with new coach, new system, uncertainty at key offensive positions, etc. I have no doubt Drake Maye is the best player, but the goal is to help elevate him to greatness. If he gets that form and footwork down, he could be great. I just don’t want them to blow it. He has all the intangibles and the physical talent to be a top 5 QB. He’s 21, we can wait until mid season.

Just have to be careful not to ignore other players needs too, you gotta build the whole team and not just the young QB.

 

[signbabybrady]

If JJSS is back to full speed...

We have JJSS, KB, KJO - all vet solid #2's

We have Thornton, Douglas, Polk, Baker...then Boutte and Reagor?

That's a crowded room. Way too crowded. Nine guys. You won't hold Polk, Baker, or Douglas on a PS...they'd get snatched up in a heartbeat. That position is going to be very interesting over the summer.

I don't see how they keep all 3 of the vets. They didn't take Polk at 37 to let him get scooped off their PS. Same with Baker, and I doubt they want to lose Douglas after his promising first year. If Thornton shows anything in camp, it gets even crazier.

After the last few years I really hope this is a problem we have. But we probably won't get all of those guys through camp. Either Juju will still be %60 or Ty won't turn it around or both or something else will happen.

 

[n1997y]

Or Polk or Baker. It's their rookie year and you're going to make them play with Jacoby even if Maye is better? But I chose Ty for a reason because it's his last chance and he wants the guy that will make him look better no one is giving him until next year even if Maye needs that long to figure out his footwork.

Brissett has played in the NFL nine years. He has thrown 1600 passes in NFL games with >61% completion rate.

Maye has played zero NFL games, so zero passes thrown against NFL competition. We have no idea whether he will look good in practice and fold like a wet towel in competition, like our last rookie QB.

If any WRs are such snowflakes that they think they are disadvantaged by playing with an experienced NFL QB instead of a raw rookie those WRs are focused on the wrong things and deserve to be cut. They need to be totally focused on their performance not looking at externalities.

 

[Real fan 02]

TY. I was intrigued by Wade when we picked him up from Baltimore. IIRC they had two promising rookie CBs and only room on the roster for one so we stole Wade in a pre-cutdown trade. I was hoping he would emerge sooner, was on the verge of giving up on him, but he has started to earn playing time so maybe there’s still hope. He is still fairly young.

Absolutely. Wade had some injures, DNPs and for a while I was wondering why he was on the team. Last season he finally got extended playing time and played well. His father actually called in to WEEI, Gresh & Fuaria last season to defend his son on asking patriots fans to allow him time. He definitely will be in the mix this season again, all these guys can play it will be a competitive battle for sure as we know who the top 4 guys are.

 

[Real fan 02]

After the last few years I really hope this is a problem we have. But we probably won't get all of those guys through camp. Either Juju will still be %60 or Ty won't turn it around or both or something else will happen.

Interesting. Because of Juju salary does he make this roster??

 

[JohnJH]

This logic makes no sense to me. Maye will either be ready to play week one or not. If he’s ready, he should be the starter. If he’s not ready, he shouldn’t be the backup where he’s one play away from being put in. He should be inactive.

Even if he is ready, my major concern even before he was drafted, was that the team might "Andrew Luck" a young QB (especially worse if such a QB has legit "Franchise QB" potential). They'll have the money in free agency and be picking high in the draft to address the OL and any other positions to help Maye succeed. I'd much rather he sit his rookie season and have any mechanical issues coached-up and then give him a solid OL and better weapons in his second year. However, I'm not the one that makes such decisions. I do understand the reasons for starting him as a rookie if he's their best option, I just believe that it's in everyone's best interest's that Maye sit his rookie season.

 

[signbabybrady]

Brissett has played in the NFL nine years. He has thrown 1600 passes in NFL games with >61% completion rate.

Maye has played zero NFL games, so zero passes thrown against NFL competition. We have no idea whether he will look good in practice and fold like a wet towel in competition, like our last rookie QB.

If any WRs are such snowflakes that they think they are disadvantaged by playing with an experienced NFL QB instead of a raw rookie those WRs are focused on the wrong things and deserve to be cut. They need to be totally focused on their performance not looking at externalities.

Brissett was a decent signing in that he has experience especially in this system so he sets a bar that needs to be passed before Maye gets considered. But all I'm saying is that the bar isn't so high that Maye can't cross it even with a hitch or some poor footwork. That then creates a situation where players think the best guy isn't playing and possibly that their needs are somehow less important than 2 or 3 years from now. And while it may be true it's still not easy for that guy to have to put it on the line when the team has other motives.

 

[Real fan 02]

Brissett has played in the NFL nine years. He has thrown 1600 passes in NFL games with >61% completion rate.

Maye has played zero NFL games, so zero passes thrown against NFL competition. We have no idea whether he will look good in practice and fold like a wet towel in competition, like our last rookie QB.

If any WRs are such snowflakes that they think they are disadvantaged by playing with an experienced NFL QB instead of a raw rookie those WRs are focused on the wrong things and deserve to be cut. They need to be totally focused on their performance not looking at externalities.

Brissett has been in the NFL since '16. Just think we had the GOAT, Glass jaw and Brissett all on this team at one point.

In a perfect world we should have kept Brissett around we likely wouldn't had had to endure cam or Mac. The main Ingredient here is Drake. He's the most talented QB long term for us.

How quickly Drake acclimates is totally upon him. CJ stroud supposedly wasn't ready either and wasn't projected to start.

Drake will have to show convincingly to AVP and mayo that he's ready and that's by his play in big boy camp come july.

 

[Toofy]

Yes, exactly. Especially in the context of where the team is right now with new coach, new system, uncertainty at key offensive positions, etc. I have no doubt Drake Maye is the best player, but the goal is to help elevate him to greatness. If he gets that form and footwork down, he could be great. I just don’t want them to blow it. He has all the intangibles and the physical talent to be a top 5 QB. He’s 21, we can wait until mid season.

I think we don't have a solid oline. And it will take time for the offensive line to gel in . So first 5-6 games would be more like preseason games for us to get into a cadence. You don't want to ruin your franchise qb's mechanics or health before building your line . Besides you need some time for your young receivers to mature and grow up . Better for maye to be throwing to rookie receivers with 6-8 games under their belt as opposed to everyone being new.

The goal is to put maye in best position to succeed in 2025 and that means he starts no earlier than 8th or 10th game this season when the offense is a decently oiled machinery.

Even if he looks lights out in practice I wouldnt play maye till we are confident that the line would not kill him.

Last thing maye and wolf would want is to get maye injured in first 3 weeks. That will screw this season and upcoming seasons. The coach and GM will probably get fired if maye gets injured and goes the David carr way.

 

[n1997y]

Brissett was a decent signing in that he has experience especially in this system so he sets a bar that needs to be passed before Maye gets considered. But all I'm saying is that the bar isn't so high that Maye can't cross it even with a hitch or some poor footwork. That then creates a situation where players think the best guy isn't playing and possibly that their needs are somehow less important than 2 or 3 years from now. And while it may be true it's still not easy for that guy to have to put it on the line when the team has other motives.

And what I’m saying is that if players are worrying about who coaches are deciding to play they’re not laser focused on doing their own job.

Their job is to perform the best they can in whatever situation they’re in.

That has nothing to do with who coaches are playing or who is really best.

You have them worrying about externalities instead of focusing on what they can control, which is their own performance.

If you’re right we’re screwed no matter who plays QB, because the rest of the team isn’t doing their own jobs they’re worrying about everything else instead.

 

[signbabybrady]

And what I’m saying is that if players are worrying about who coaches are deciding to play they’re not laser focused on doing their own job.

Their job is to perform the best they can in whatever situation they’re in.

That has nothing to do with who coaches are playing or who is really best.

You have them worrying about externalities instead of focusing on what they can control, which is their own performance.

If you’re right we’re screwed no matter who plays QB, because the rest of the team isn’t doing their own jobs they’re worrying about everything else instead.

It's no longer about do your job it's a collaboration. Jokes aside I see your point players can't let it side track them but they are on the field with each other it doesn't take a lack of focus to see what's going on in the other positions.

 

[50-yard-line]

Interesting. Because of Juju salary does he make this roster??

He has to perform very well to make the team. His salary won't hold that spot.

They have too many young kids with great promise (Polk, Baker, DD...maybe Thornton if he balls out in camp) who are cost-controlled for a long time.

The only one of the vets I could see getting cut would be KJO. But I doubt it, because he's pretty damned good.

 

[PScottman]

all these guys can play it will be a competitive battle for sure as we know who the top 4 guys are.

Injuries, rookie emergences, beefs with the new coaches, roster cut down trades/signings, unable to get the new system through new signal callers, girlfriend breakups, new kids, and every other life entry you can think of will also play a role. That's the difference between "on paper" and "on field". Every year we go through this speculation and every year the end product on day one of the regular season is usually anywhere between 50 - 75% what is guessed due to unforeseen changes.

Or simply - football, like life, is wholly unpredictable.

 

[Real fan 02]

He has to perform very well to make the team. His salary won't hold that spot.

They have too many young kids with great promise (Polk, Baker, DD...maybe Thornton if he balls out in camp) who are cost-controlled for a long time.

The only one of the vets I could see getting cut would be KJO. But I doubt it, because he's pretty damned good.

Agree. I love the WR group. Polk, Baker KB, KJ. Now Thornton & juju are definitely IMO on borrowed time. KJ is a healthy, more explosive version of juju..