Building For The Future With Free Agents - NOT

[Wozzy]

There's no reason to lock up players until you're sure you have your franchise QB, then you can sign guys in anticipation of having to sign your QB to one of the biggest contracts in football. You have to build around that massive contract and decide who to pay and who to let walk. There's a salary cap and it's intrinsically linked to team building.

 

[mgteich]

If this team can't take advantage of 1 year deals while rebuilding a team, especially in their context, then I'd worry about far bigger issues. That's a symptom, not an issue.

The issue NOT whether we should sign one-year contracts. Obviously, they have an important place in rosters building, especially signing show-me contracts.

The issue is that a MAJOR part of building our future was supposedly in signing free agents who will help us build our divison-compeititvr teams in 2025 and 2026.

Who were the 5-8 player we signed for the 2026 playoff run. GIBSON is your answer. We signed GIBSON, a great, but singular, signing.

In addition, we signed Takitaki to a 2-year contract.
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The last time we had this discussion, someone had the two real reasons for the lack of three (or even two) year contracts.
1) Folks just didn't want to come to a team (primarily on Offense) with so many question marks.
2) The unexpected HUGE increase in cap money allowed many cap-tight teams to sign their own free agents, greatly limiting those available in the 2024 free agent market.

 

[Vindicate]

The issue NOT whether we should sign one-year contracts. Obviously, they have an important place in rosters building, especially signing show-me contracts.

The issue is that a MAJOR part of building our future was supposedly in signing free agents who will help us build our divison-compeititvr teams in 2025 and 2026.


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The last time we had this discussion, someone had the two real reasons for the lack of three (or even two) year contracts.
1) Folks just didn't want to come to a team (primarily on Offense) with so many question marks.
2) The unexpected HUGE increase in cap money allowed many cap-tight teams to sign their own free agents, greatly limiting those available in the 2024 free agent market.

I appreciate your clarification, I see now.


First bolded portion: what plan called for free agency being a major part of our future? Not saying you're wrong at all, I miss quotes all the time so I'm asking from where this comes.

Second bolded part and largely my answer: As far as building a team goes, your strategy better out what you can and can't control. The market this year was out of the Patriot's control (and almost always is), so if someone in the organization made ripples by announcing that the free agent market is key to our future - the 2024 free agent market that we're currently in - I'd, personally, be a bit underwhelmed and worried. Even from my more-than-casual, but less-than-serious knowledge, it didn't seem like this market wasn't gonna be all the great. Even without knowledge of a huge increase, I just always assume there's some weird contract ****ery that's going to keep the best players in house.

Personally, I think it's hard to burn cash when you don't know what you need that'd merit burning cash, if that makes sense. The most clear example is QB: if I don't really know what I have in the driver's seat, I'm gonna be disciplined in the way I approach free agency; I really don't know what works with this guy yet. I don't know if that guy works yet. It's a tough balancing act. You can't let it blind you from making some less-than-safe decisions, but you also can't just assume that dumping big money into a great WR will show worthwhile return.

Maybe the idea of free agency being key was floated, but come free agency time, they recognized they'd have to lean into their draft more than expected because free agency wasn't shaking out.

I could see 2025 being a big year for FA. Even is Maye isn't a world beater. We at least have a full year of figuring out and understanding who he is, and therefore are more comfortable burning cash for longer term housing.

This is all kinda how I was thinking approaching free agency this year. I just kept thinking "this is not the FA market for what the Patriots need."

 

[mgteich]

I appreciate your clarification, I see now.


First bolded portion: what plan called for free agency being a major part of our future? Not saying you're wrong at all, I miss quotes all the time so I'm asking from where this comes.

Second bolded part and largely my answer: As far as building a team goes, your strategy better out what you can and can't control. The market this year was out of the Patriot's control (and almost always is), so if someone in the organization made ripples by announcing that the free agent market is key to our future - the 2024 free agent market that we're currently in - I'd, personally, be a bit underwhelmed and worried. Even from my more-than-casual, but less-than-serious knowledge, it didn't seem like this market wasn't gonna be all the great. Even without knowledge of a huge increase, I just always assume there's some weird contract ****ery that's going to keep the best players in house.

Personally, I think it's hard to burn cash when you don't know what you need that'd merit burning cash, if that makes sense. The most clear example is QB: if I don't really know what I have in the driver's seat, I'm gonna be disciplined in the way I approach free agency; I really don't know what works with this guy yet. I don't know if that guy works yet. It's a tough balancing act. You can't let it blind you from making some less-than-safe decisions, but you also can't just assume that dumping big money into a great WR will show worthwhile return.

Maybe the idea of free agency being key was floated, but come free agency time, they recognized they'd have to lean into their draft more than expected because free agency wasn't shaking out.

I could see 2025 being a big year for FA. Even is Maye isn't a world beater. We at least have a full year of figuring out and understanding who he is, and therefore are more comfortable burning cash for longer term housing.

This is all kinda how I was thinking approaching free agency this year. I just kept thinking "this is not the FA market for what the Patriots need."

We're in general agreement.

We did a great job of taking the approach of re-signing our key free agents. As we agree, the free agent was not the one we hoped for. That's fine I guess. The effect on top players was immediately clear as the re-signs and tags kept on being announced. The effect on secon level players was a bit more than I expected.
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Of course, we might still sign additional players, especially at RB, DB and STs. But I guess new signings are also likely to be one-year patches.
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AS AN ASIDE
Of course, some of these signings may be players for the future. We could re-sign players like Hooper, Leveritt, Osborne, Sly, Watts, Hawkins, (and/or Uche). For example, many posters seem to see a lot of talent in Hawkins.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I absolutely love the Gibson signing.. I wish we would have given KJ Osborne a longer deal.. but he was apprehensive due to our QB concerns. The key here is Drake.. if Drake is the guy we think he is then like TB12 did for so long he will attract FAs going forward. This off season to me was about retaining guys that are part of the culture and want to be here for the rebuilding. Hunter Henry said those exact words when he re-used.

Overall I think that this was a short term problem the Patriots faced this offseason, as they weren’t a desirable destination for top free agents. And while I don’t expect them to contend this season I do think they will be a more desirable destination for free agents in the next free agency than they were with all of the uncertainty that was there this year. And it looks like they will be rolling over a big chunk of cap space for that market. And teams like the Cowboys, Cincy, and S.F. are going to have to make big decisions on who they can keep around, and who hits free agency. The Cowboys are looking at Parsons, Prescott, and Lamb all becoming free agents, the 49ers will have to decide between Samuel and Aiyuk, and Higgins will likely be leaving Cincy. And many more names will hit that short list. For the first time in a few years the future looks bright for the Patriots.

 

[Real fan 02]

Overall I think that this was a short term problem the Patriots faced this offseason, as they weren’t a desirable destination for top free agents. And while I don’t expect them to contend this season I do think they will be a more desirable destination for free agents in the next free agency than they were with all of the uncertainty that was there this year. And it looks like they will be rolling over a big chunk of cap space for that market. And teams like the Cowboys, Cincy, and S.F. are going to have to make big decisions on who they can keep around, and who hits free agency. The Cowboys are looking at Parsons, Prescott, and Lamb all becoming free agents, the 49ers will have to decide between Samuel and Aiyuk, and Higgins will likely be leaving Cincy. And many more names will hit that short list. For the first time in a few years the future looks bright for the Patriots.

Spot on! Perfectly put. I agree with everything you've said. To add to that.. I know it's only rookie mini camp. However the whole vibe, scene and aura just feels differently than the last few seasons..

Myself I believe we will be a tough out each week for teams.. we aren't going to be an automatic W on teams schedules like we're were last few seasons.

The drafting of Polk & Baker are going to make it fiercely competitive for the veteran WRs in camp, Notably juju..

The defense has a chip on thier shoulders, they're disrespected they want to go out and get the 4-13 stench off them. This offense will leaps and bounds better, I believe AVPs offense is more conducive to what the league is now than the old patriots offense. I'll say something else.. keep an eye on Joe Milton going forward... I believe we have a steal!

 

[Real fan 02]

I appreciate your clarification, I see now.


First bolded portion: what plan called for free agency being a major part of our future? Not saying you're wrong at all, I miss quotes all the time so I'm asking from where this comes.

Second bolded part and largely my answer: As far as building a team goes, your strategy better out what you can and can't control. The market this year was out of the Patriot's control (and almost always is), so if someone in the organization made ripples by announcing that the free agent market is key to our future - the 2024 free agent market that we're currently in - I'd, personally, be a bit underwhelmed and worried. Even from my more-than-casual, but less-than-serious knowledge, it didn't seem like this market wasn't gonna be all the great. Even without knowledge of a huge increase, I just always assume there's some weird contract ****ery that's going to keep the best players in house.

Personally, I think it's hard to burn cash when you don't know what you need that'd merit burning cash, if that makes sense. The most clear example is QB: if I don't really know what I have in the driver's seat, I'm gonna be disciplined in the way I approach free agency; I really don't know what works with this guy yet. I don't know if that guy works yet. It's a tough balancing act. You can't let it blind you from making some less-than-safe decisions, but you also can't just assume that dumping big money into a great WR will show worthwhile return.

Maybe the idea of free agency being key was floated, but come free agency time, they recognized they'd have to lean into their draft more than expected because free agency wasn't shaking out.

I could see 2025 being a big year for FA. Even is Maye isn't a world beater. We at least have a full year of figuring out and understanding who he is, and therefore are more comfortable burning cash for longer term housing.

This is all kinda how I was thinking approaching free agency this year. I just kept thinking "this is not the FA market for what the Patriots need."

This offseason was very clear. Get the QB, PROPERLY develop the QB. Try to retain your home grown players. They have done that. Resetting the culture was pivotal. Every team in the league needs to have a culture that permeates to winning. That starts with having team first guys. I believe we have that. Everything on out from here will determine on how hard guys want to work to become great.

On outside FAs I look at it like this.. we didn't have anything to sell to FAs at QB and the market wasn't as desirable. I expect a totally different feel next off season.

 

[jdlboot14]

But they certainly are building through the coaching staff... that roster has doubled from BB's staff numbers.
I hope it works out.

Speaking of Belichick, why isn't Brian on the coaching page of Patriots.com ? He's one of the few holdovers, and the only DB's coach right? Seeing Mayo's philosophy, you'd expect more coaches to be hired - one for LCB's, one for RCB's, two for Safeties...

 

[Real fan 02]

But they certainly are building through the coaching staff... that roster has doubled from BB's staff numbers.
I hope it works out.

Speaking of Belichick, why isn't Brian on the coaching page of Patriots.com ? He's one of the few holdovers, and the only DB's coach right? Seeing Mayo's philosophy, you'd expect more coaches to be hired - one for LCB's, one for RCB's, two for Safeties...

Pelligrino is the secondary coach. I agree it's odd brian Belichick isn't listed as his last official title was safeties coach. I believe that having a larger coaching staff is better for a first year HC.. Mayo's going to lean on his staff alot this season. A that really matter is the development of Drake.. if Drake is in fact what we believe he can be then we have a bright future.

 

[Zuma]

I was disappointed they didn’t sign more high level FA’s…or trade. But I think it’s important to find out how much the rookies and short-timers can contribute. 2024 is a great year to find that out. I think they will splurge more in 2025 once they know what they currently have on the roster.

 

[Real fan 02]

I was disappointed they didn’t sign more high level FA’s…or trade. But I think it’s important to find out how much the rookies and short-timers can contribute. 2024 is a great year to find that out. I think they will splurge more in 2025 once they know what they currently have on the roster.

Agreed. The market was meh.. that Ridleys wife didn't like snow, bad traffic and taxes so we couldn't sign him. In retrospect I'd rather go with the rookies and guys we did sign. Maybe if we signed him we don't retain Dugger or Beast-more... '25 as you perfectly said is the year we get some marquee guys. I'm looking forward to this season though...

 

[dliverey44]

I got so effin annoyed when people were like where is the cash burn, They did burn cash on our own players. Mayo did not say we were going to throw money at a bunch of high rated external FA's. I agree that it was crucial to resign some of their guys and focus on letting some of the young guys play.

 

[mgteich]

I got so effin annoyed when people were like where is the cash burn, They did burn cash on our own players. Mayo did not say we were going to throw money at a bunch of high rated external FA's. I agree that it was crucial to resign some of their guys and focus on letting some of the young guys play.

Note that it is a new strategy to sign almost all of our own, even if the cost is high. I applaud the strategy, especially regard the Defense. It needs to continue. We've started with Barmore. There is still Godchaux, Wise, Ekuale, Judon, Jon Jones and Peppers. We have a fine Defense. I hope that we add a top player or two next year. However, we will continue to have a top Defense even if we simply re-sign almost all of our own, and make minor additions (like Takitaki and Watts)

 

[dliverey44]

Note that it is a new strategy to sign almost all of our own, even if the cost is high. I applaud the strategy, especially regard the Defense. It needs to continue. We've started with Barmore. There is still Godchaux, Wise, Ekuale, Judon, Jon Jones and Peppers. We have a fine Defense. I hope that we add a top player or two next year. However, we will continue to have a top Defense even if we simply re-sign almost all of our own, and make minor additions (like Takitaki and Watts)

I agree, I love the strategy. Hopefully we can string good drafts together so we can continue resigning our own. I am going to voice a complaint, this is not me throwing **** at BB some of you are very sensitive. We had Mac on a rookie contract and his backup was also cheap and the roster was not improved upon be it BB or RK, it was one of the biggest tragedies of the last 3 years.

 

[Wozzy]

Not entirely off topic but the UFL has been playing, some free agents to consider...

Hakeem Butler is looking good at WR, leads the league in yards and he is supremely talented at 6'4" tall and fast. Maybe his time on NFL rosters helped him, he had hands issues before but according to FOX Sport's stats he has caught a high amount of his targets.

Kai Nacua is Puka's brother and leads the UFL in interceptions and is also a plus athlete, he has earned himself a camp invite at the very least and he plays free safety... I'd put the Patriots on the list of teams who should at least be interested.

Carlos Davis is the twin brother of Khalil Davis, he leads the UFL in sacks and is also a plus athlete at DT. I'd love it if the Patriots brought all three of these guys above into camp.

The Pat's don't need another QB in camp, but Luis Perez is the best passer in the UFL, some QB needy team should give him a shot.

 

[Drunken Cicerone]

I like how you said NOT at the end of it
So we can understand the sarcasm in your post, and also pretend it’s 1991