THE OL REBUILD - IS STRANGE HEALTHY?

[Wozzy]

Siddy Sow's natural position might be LG so I am not expecting anything from Strange. Stranger things have happened.

If Strange was healthy entering this season, he would be automatically penciled in as a starter at left guard and there would be no debate.

He didn't get his surgery until late last season, so he might miss the start of this one... again, he toughed it out on an injured knee when he probably should have had surgery right out of camp. He's a tough guy.

But if he was healthy he is an automatic starter. The only people who think he's "a bust" are ridiculous fans on Patriot's fan sites like this one who simply hated Bill, or hated the idea of taking a guard at the end of the first round. The coaches who watch him practice and play know how good he is.

 

[PatsFan2]

If Strange was healthy entering this season, he would be automatically penciled in as a starter at left guard and there would be no debate.

He didn't get his surgery until late last season, so he might miss the start of this one... again, he toughed it out on an injured knee when he probably should have had surgery right out of camp. He's a tough guy.

But if he was healthy he is an automatic starter. The only people who think he's "a bust" are ridiculous fans on Patriot's fan sites like this one who simply hated Bill, or hated the idea of taking a guard at the end of the first round. The coaches who watch him practice and play know how good he is.

Well it's known I didn't the the old BB post Brady and neither did Kraft.

 

[Wozzy]

Here you go:

None of those videos show Strange getting "beat like a drum," they mostly show Mac standing like a statue and in most cases getting the pass off or missing an opportunity to get a pass off because he didn't pull the trigger.

Also those highlights came from the first half of his rookie season, he had some rookie missteps and was actually pulled aside by Scar. When he was reinserted he played 100% of the snaps for the last 8 games of the year and played great. Here's a good in depth video on that:



But I'm sure you know more than Scar when it comes to offensive line... most rookies don't play at all.

 

[203Pat]

None of those videos show Strange getting "beat like a drum," they mostly show Mac standing like a statue and in most cases getting the pass off or missing an opportunity to get a pass off because he didn't pull the trigger.

Also those highlights came from the first half of his rookie season, he had some rookie missteps and was actually pulled aside by Scar. When he was reinserted he played 100% of the snaps for the last 8 games of the year and played great. Here's a good in depth video on that:



But I'm sure you know more than Scar when it comes to offensive line... most rookies don't play at all.

Lol Yes it was all Mac's fault. Many of those plays Strange was beat instantly. Here is Scarnecchia's "glowing" endorsement of Strange after he was drafted:

However, Scarnecchia believes the Patriots did well to meet a glaring need for ready-made O-linemen. “The thing about him as for any offensive lineman other than tackle, is that it’s not a sexy pick, but it’s one I’m sure they felt they really needed or they wouldn’t have done what they did,” Scarnecchia told Guregian. “I’m sure they felt like they had a hole, they had to fill it, and this is the guy that was best suited to fill it. “I’ve never seen the guy play, I don’t know anything about him, but they obviously like him enough to do what they did to get him. Now they got nine more picks to hopefully give them the help that they need.”

If Strange was healthy entering this season, he would be automatically penciled in as a starter at left guard and there would be no debate.

He didn't get his surgery until late last season, so he might miss the start of this one... again, he toughed it out on an injured knee when he probably should have had surgery right out of camp. He's a tough guy.

But if he was healthy he is an automatic starter. The only people who think he's "a bust" are ridiculous fans on Patriot's fan sites like this one who simply hated Bill, or hated the idea of taking a guard at the end of the first round. The coaches who watch him practice and play know how good he is.

You're flailing here and burying your head in the sand. They drafted 4 interior offensive linemen in the first 150 picks within 2 years. They also re-signed Mike Onwenu, who may or may not, end up back at guard. You really think that they're fully sold on Strange to be on the roster in a year from now, let alone the "penciled in starter" when healthy? Both Bill and now Wolf have drafted plenty of potential Strange replacements but I guess you just want to keep whistling past the graveyard in defense of an average (at best) player.

 

[Wozzy]

You're flailing here and burying your head in the sand. They drafted 4 interior offensive linemen in the first 150 picks within 2 years. They also re-signed Mike Onwenu, who may or may not, end up back at guard. You really think that they're fully sold on Strange to be on the roster in a year from now, let alone the "penciled in starter" when healthy? Both Bill and now Wolf have drafted plenty of potential Strange replacements but I guess you just want to keep whistling past the graveyard in defense of an average (at best) player.

They drafted Jake Andrews to be David Andrews backup and hopefully successor, they drafted Mafi knowing they might kick Onwenu out to right tackle, they drafted Sow and projected him at offensive tackle.

Strange was starting as a rookie. Did you watch the video? No, your mind was made up the moment Strange was drafted and you heard he was a guard. It's more important that you push some "BB sucks" nonsense than be impartial about a young player who had nothing to do with where he was drafted or by whom. Your agenda is showing.

 

[203Pat]

They drafted Jake Andrews to be David Andrews backup and hopefully successor, they drafted Mafi knowing they might kick Onwenu out to right tackle, they drafted Sow and projected him at offensive tackle.

Strange was starting as a rookie. Did you watch the video? No, your mind was made up the moment Strange was drafted and you heard he was a guard. It's more important that you push some "BB sucks" nonsense than be impartial about a young player who had nothing to do with where he was drafted or by whom. Your agenda is showing.

Knowing they might move Onwenu to RT? Seems half this board knew they should've done at at least a month before Bill did last year. If that was the plan then why bring in so many stiffs at tackle? Riley Reiff, Calvin Anderson, Conor McDermott and then the trades for Lowe and Wheatley. The plan at offensive line last year was to throw sh*t against the wall and hope something stuck. There was no grand plan in the summer that Onwenu would kick out to tackle. Bill drafted a bunch of IOL because Strange can't play and Onwenu was going to be a free agent.

I also would like you to find me one single post where I said "BB sucks". You're blindly defending a bad pick because you have an agenda which is protect Bill at all costs and when Strange is cut this summer or next you will just play the "new regime just didn't like him" card. Stange doesn't suck but he isn't good. Bill created a hole at guard through his own mismanagement of the offensive line and then doubled down and made it worse taking a guard in the first with so many other glaring needs that would have benefitted from the premium recourse that is a first round pick.

 

[Wozzy]

Knowing they might move Onwenu to RT? Seems half this board knew they should've done at at least a month before Bill did last year. If that was the plan then why bring in so many stiffs at tackle? Riley Reiff, Calvin Anderson, Conor McDermott and then the trades for Lowe and Wheatley. The plan at offensive line last year was to throw sh*t against the wall and hope something stuck. There was no grand plan in the summer that Onwenu would kick out to tackle. Bill drafted a bunch of IOL because Strange can't play and Onwenu was going to be a free agent.

I also would like you to find me one single post where I said "BB sucks". You're blindly defending a bad pick because you have an agenda which is protect Bill at all costs and when Strange is cut this summer or next you will just play the "new regime just didn't like him" card. Stange doesn't suck but he isn't good. Bill created a hole at guard through his own mismanagement of the offensive line and then doubled down and made it worse taking a guard in the first with so many other glaring needs that would have benefitted from the premium recourse that is a first round pick.

Last year they had the most injuries at offensive line of any team in the league... when you can predict injuries let us know. Can I have the winning lottery numbers for this week while you're at it?

Onwenu played right tackle really well the year prior, so don't pretend it wasn't an option. And you are the president of the "BB sucks" fan club... give us a break.

 

[203Pat]

Last year they had the most injuries at offensive line of any team in the league... when you can predict injuries let us know. Can I have the winning lottery numbers for this week while you're at it?

Onwenu played right tackle really well the year prior, so don't pretend it wasn't an option. And you are the president of the "BB sucks" fan club... give us a break.

Reiff was oft injured and old and Trent Brown has a history on not giving a **** and loafing and those were projected to be the starters. Calvin Anderson has a history of nagging knee and ankle injuries and missed the whole summer with a mystery illness that presumably wasn't gone because he missed the last 2 months of the season with it.

Many of us who didn't bury our heads in the sand openly questioned the approach at tackle during the 2023 draft all the way through training camp. Obviously Onwenu was an option but he certainly didn't seem to be the plan at tackle during that offseason.

 

[Wozzy]

Reiff was oft injured and old and Trent Brown has a history on not giving a **** and loafing and those were projected to be the starters. Calvin Anderson has a history of nagging knee and ankle injuries and missed the whole summer with a mystery illness that presumably wasn't gone because he missed the last 2 months of the season with it.

Many of us who didn't bury our heads in the sand openly questioned the approach at tackle during the 2023 draft all the way through training camp. Obviously Onwenu was an option but he certainly didn't seem to be the plan at tackle during that offseason.

Reiff was signed for pennies, Trent Brown has also played well in the past, Brady called him the best left tackle he played with in his career. Calvin Anderson was an UDFA who had to fight for everything he had and eventually worked his way up to starting in Denver. He had a mystery illness last year... Ian won't tell us what. But again... tell us when the next injury is going to happen since you can see the future.

I pushed for them to draft a tackle with their first round pick last year and the year prior, so if I was "burying my head in the sand" according to you, my posting history in draft threads doesn't reflect that. The plan according to Wolf in the preseason last year was to try Sow at right tackle, but the smart thing to do in season was to move Onwenu out there and place the rookie in between two vets... they literally had no OL coach because Klemm abandoned them midseason.

There was clearly disharmony and issues with coaching, front office and ownership for the last couple years which contributed to the disfunction. Add to that the overwhelming number of injuries last season and you get the results we saw. 4 out of 5 linemen are returning this year and if healthy they could be really good, if Anderson returns to full form that could be 5 for 5. You can't predict injuries... stop pretending you can.

 

[203Pat]

Reiff was signed for pennies, Trent Brown has also played well in the past, Brady called him the best left tackle he played with in his career. Calvin Anderson was an UDFA who had to fight for everything he had and eventually worked his way up to starting in Denver. He had a mystery illness last year... Ian won't tell us what. But again... tell us when the next injury is going to happen since you can see the future.

I pushed for them to draft a tackle with their first round pick last year and the year prior, so if I was "burying my head in the sand" according to you, my posting history in draft threads doesn't reflect that. The plan according to Wolf in the preseason last year was to try Sow at right tackle, but the smart thing to do in season was to move Onwenu out there and place the rookie in between two vets... they literally had no OL coach because Klemm abandoned them midseason.

There was clearly disharmony and issues with coaching, front office and ownership for the last couple years which contributed to the disfunction. Add to that the overwhelming number of injuries last season and you get the results we saw. 4 out of 5 linemen are returning this year and if healthy they could be really good, if Anderson returns to full form that could be 5 for 5. You can't predict injuries... stop pretending you can.

Reiff signed for 1 year $5 million and last year the average for a starting right tackle was $5,128,198 so it would seem he was signed for average starting RT money, not pennies. He was also 35 years old and lacked the foot speed to play tackle and was instantly moved to guard. Moral of the story is he wasn't ever going to be the answer at tackle.

Brown is a front runner. When the team is good and a HOF level position coach is riding his ass Brown is an elite player. When the team and quarterback suck he half asses it and checks out. He checked out so badly last year they had to give him a pay bump so he would give a **** for another month or two.

Who hired the dysfunctional coaching staff? Bill hired O'Brien then allegedly wouldn't let him pick his assistants. Bill hired Klemm who apparently got into a screaming mach with someone in the front office then went AWOL. And this was all coming over that disastrous Patrica OC experiment that Bill allegedly wanted to run back last year. Bill mismanaged the roster and the coaching staff down the stretch. He had a legendary career here but even the biggest homers have to admit it fell apart the last few years with Bill solely responsible.

 

[mgteich]

Wynn left college with bad knees. Strange left college perfectly healthy and got hurt in year two... apples/oranges.

One injury does not equate to "injury prone."

If he can't stay healthy going forward that's another conversation, he started 17 games as a rookie.

and after 5 years, Wynn is a starter on a compeititve team.

 

[captain stone]

and after 5 years, Wynn is a starter on a compeititve team.

Until he got his ass hurt...again.

 

[mgteich]

Sow is a lynchpin. So is LG.

He was tried at RT last year (one of many OL decisions last year that didn't work well)

He played OK last year at RG. How well? He played so well that they drafted Robinson in the 4th who can only play RG,

Is Sow a starting LG? Perhaps he will be started at his 3rd position if Strange is on PUP. Of course, we brought in Leverett for that role.

Is Strange a starter? There is no evidence, other than opinions on this board, that Strange's play is unacceptable and that he won't start for the next 2 years. Of course, Strange may be so diminished by his injury that he may no longer be a starter.
=======
We have 4 players who could start at RT.
We have 3 players who could start at RG (Onwenu, Sow and Robinson)
We have 2 centers named Andrews.
We have 3 players who might start at LT.

We don't know who will start at those 4 positions, but there are many reasonable options to try.

AT LEFT GUARD, ALL WE HAVE ARE QUESTION MARKS
1) When will Strange be available? Will he come back good enough to be a starter.
2) Will Sow be moved to his 3rd NFL position? How long will it take to know if he is any good at LG?
3) Is Leverette the answer at LG? Is he at least a backup? Can he start until Strange is ready?
4) Is Mafi in the picture, other than as making the roster as an emergency OG if Strange starts the season on the PUP list?
5) I suppose that Wallace could even be the backup LG if the OT rotation is Onwenu, Anderson, and Okorafor.
=======
I DON'T THINK THAT WE HAVE A FIGHT FOR ROSTER SPOTS
I suspect if there is an injury, we might need to sign someone.

AS A REVIEW (10)
OT: Onwenu, Okorafor, Anderson, Wallace
C: Andrews, Andrews
OG: Sow, Robinson, Leverette, Mafi
PUP: Strange

Given all the unknowns and having 8 active OL's, 10 seems to be the right number (2 inactives).

 

[mgteich]

Reiff was signed for pennies.

Reiff was signed for $5M

more than Okorafor

 

[TheRainMaker]

Reiff was oft injured and old and Trent Brown has a history on not giving a **** and loafing and those were projected to be the starters. Calvin Anderson has a history of nagging knee and ankle injuries and missed the whole summer with a mystery illness that presumably wasn't gone because he missed the last 2 months of the season with it.

Many of us who didn't bury our heads in the sand openly questioned the approach at tackle during the 2023 draft all the way through training camp. Obviously Onwenu was an option but he certainly didn't seem to be the plan at tackle during that offseason.

That 2023 offseason was the nail in the coffin for Bill.

 

[rads2005]

100% agreed. We’ve never seen a guy go from one team playing like a bust go to another team and turn their career around. We know you’re pissed Wozzy, but come on.

This can't be true. There have been players who did terribly with one team and then with a change of scenery/schemes/coaches, fulfilled their potential. Baker Mayfield and Steve Young off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are lots of better examples.

 

[203Pat]

Strange is on the Wynn plan

The board's homer brigade "tell you he's a good player until he leaves then they will admit he's good" path?

 

[Wozzy]

Who hired the dysfunctional coaching staff? Bill hired O'Brien then allegedly wouldn't let him pick his assistants. Bill hired Klemm who apparently got into a screaming mach with someone in the front office then went AWOL. And this was all coming over that disastrous Patrica OC experiment that Bill allegedly wanted to run back last year. Bill mismanaged the roster and the coaching staff down the stretch. He had a legendary career here but even the biggest homers have to admit it fell apart the last few years with Bill solely responsible.

You have no clue at all if or how much of this last paragraph is true. We know Kraft started the collaboration station back in 2021, came out and announced the draft would no longer be Bill's alone and they started inserting their opinions on coaching. "Bill is solely responsible" in your mind alone, and you're being willfully ignorant about meddling that clearly went on.

 

[Wozzy]

and after 5 years, Wynn is a starter on a compeititve team.

Wynn only started 7 games the year before last and 7 games last season... he clearly has bad wheels.

Strange was mostly an iron man in college, was an iron man as a rookie and hurt his knee in camp last year and played through it until he hurt the same already injured knee.

Now we have a bunch of chickenhawks here suggesting he's injury prone... it's absurd.

 

[Wozzy]

Reiff was signed for $5M

more than Okorafor

I didn't like the Reiff signing when it happened anymore than the Okorafor signing now.