BOTTOM LINE - Entering NFL Employees Have No Choice

[HSanders]

they have no health care or pension after they retire.

that is incorrect

Overview of NFL Player Benefits

www.nfl.com

 

[Tunescribe]

I would love to see someone challenge the draft system in federal court. just because they make a lot of money doesn't mean the system is fair.

 

[XLIX]

Like most jobs if you want to make the most money, you have to often sacrifice other things. 4 times I have explained this now.

Trust me: the very last thing you want to do is compare this to "most jobs". In "most jobs" what the NFL does would be 100% illegal. If a guy gets his pilot's license, American and United and Southwest don't get to collude on which of them he works for. If a guy wants to sell cars, Volkswagen and Honda and Chevy don't get to collude on which of them he works for. He gets to shop himself and then he gets to make that choice. That's what "most jobs" do.

Here is the key point you are too stupid to understand: The NFL is 32 separate businesses. They themselves have even argued this point in court on several occasions, most notably Al Davis and Jerry Jones. Al Davis was among the most prominent of owners before he died and Jerry Jones certainly is among the most prominent of owners in the present day.

 

[XLIX]

I'm sure you've heard this before, but I feel dumber from having interaction with you.

Of course you feel dumber from interacting with me. I have pointed out several of your statements which were factually incorrect and exposed your overall ignorance on the subject matter at hand. Anyone would feel dumb having been corrected so many times.

You like to use the term "intellectually bankrupt" yet you don't seem to understand basic concepts. The fact that the NFL is the only "big game" was determined by the free market. Other leagues with plenty of money have tried to compete, but simply can't put forth the same quality, so the customers decided it wasn't worth watching, and the leagues folded. That is not a monopoly.

Actually, yeah, what you just described is the textbook definition of monopoly. And, like I said, the courts have already declared the NFL a monopoly. That was the one of the results of the USFL lawsuit from the 1980's, but not the only time.

So, once again, I have to correct your ignorance. No wonder you feel so dumb. It is because you are.

The term "minor league" would suggest other competing leagues are a feeder system to some sort of "higher league." That is not what these competitors are. They are self-preserved entities. Again it is not the fault of the NFL that most people are not interested in them. Again, not a monopoly.

You can keep saying it, but that doesn't make you right. Legally, the NFL has in the past been ruled to be a monopoly. Having a small handful of lesser leagues (does that term better satisfy your delicate sensibilities?) does not change that fact. The UFL is not an NFL competitor - and you know it.

Does that mean every single court would make the same ruling in the future? No it doesn't. But precedence is a very strong indicator. Considering how much the courts have forced change at the college level, it would not be so crazy to think courts could also influence the professionals.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

They can choose not to play in the NFL, if they choose to play then they have to abide by the rules. No different than if I want to work for a company, I can choose to take the job and follow those rules or choose another company.

 

[XLIX]

They can choose not to play in the NFL, if they choose to play then they have to abide by the rules. No different than if I want to work for a company, I can choose to take the job and follow those rules or choose another company.

Here is the difference: When you say you can choose another company, what you mean is you can choose another company in the same industry. I don't know what you do but if you are a banker and you don't like Bank of America's rules, you don't have to completely change your profession. You can choose to work elsewhere in the same industry. If you are fresh out of college, BoA cannot lock you out from working at Chase.

There are some very, very legit reasons why employer collusion is illegal in almost every single industry under the sun.

 

[HSanders]

Here is the difference: When you say you can choose another company, what you mean is you can choose another company in the same industry. I don't know what you do but if you are a banker and you don't like Bank of America's rules, you don't have to completely change your profession. You can choose to work elsewhere in the same industry. If you are fresh out of college, BoA cannot lock you out from working at Chase.

There are some very, very legit reasons why employer collusion is illegal in almost every single industry under the sun.

what is your ideal nfl ?

 

[Grogan14]

that is incorrect

Overview of NFL Player Benefits

www.nfl.com

My mistake
Thank you for correcting!

 

[XLIX]

what is your ideal nfl ?

If you mean what is my ideal NFL as it relates to this issue, then I believe the Union did not negotiate in good faith. Most Unions negotiate with management to raise the salaries of both current and future members. But that didn't happen here. The NFLPA was all too eager to throw the future members under the bus in order to benefit the current membership. IMHO, they did not act in good faith.

My ideal situation is that rookies are UFA's. There would still be a salary cap and perhaps even a hard rookie salary cap (meaning a hard rookie cap for all teams, not the one they have now which depends on how many picks you have and where you selected them) if they can find a way to negotiate it in good faith.

I also believe that, while it is likely years and years away, this will eventually happen. In the meantime, I believe a situation where a guy can enter the draft, get drafted, and then choose to go back to school is very good idea (then enter the draft fresh the next year).

 

[HSanders]

If you mean what is my ideal NFL as it relates to this issue, then I believe the Union did not negotiate in good faith. Most Unions negotiate with management to raise the salaries of both current and future members. But that didn't happen here. The NFLPA was all too eager to throw the future members under the bus in order to benefit the current membership. IMHO, they did not act in good faith.

My ideal situation is that rookies are UFA's. There would still be a salary cap and perhaps even a hard rookie salary cap (meaning a hard rookie cap for all teams, not the one they have now which depends on how many picks you have and where you selected them) if they can find a way to negotiate it in good faith.

I also believe that, while it is likely years and years away, this will eventually happen. In the meantime, I believe a situation where a guy can enter the draft, get drafted, and then choose to go back to school is very good idea (then enter the draft fresh the next year).

i think they need to go whole hog if they change. i.e. no cap.

 

[XLIX]

i think they need to go whole hog if they change. i.e. no cap.

I wouldn't lose any sleep if that happened, but IMHO ownership and management can (and have) negotiate a cap in good faith so it doesn't necessarily have to go away.

 

[BTTA]

It is worth noting that the freedom to choose an employer, and have multiple employers to choose from, has been available to less than 1% of the human race. To speak of it as if it is a normal condition of life is misleading and misguided. NFL players are in a system that, should they be in the top 10% and get a second contract opportunity with multiple team interest, allows them to have this freedom. They get to choose between a handful of employers. So their odds are better than the average human but still very slim.

 

[HSanders]

It is worth noting that the freedom to choose an employer, and have multiple employers to choose from, has been available to less than 1% of the human race.

i'm curious for you to expand on this.

 

[XLIX]

It is worth noting that the freedom to choose an employer, and have multiple employers to choose from, has been available to less than 1% of the human race. To speak of it as if it is a normal condition of life is misleading and misguided.

This isn't 13th century feudal Japan we are talking about here. This is the 21st century United States of America. Having the freedom to choose your employer, including choosing among several employers in your field, is a very normal condition of our lives and something that roughly 99.99% of Americans have the right to do.

 

[BTTA]

i'm curious for you to expand on this.

Roughly 50,000,000,000 people have lived. So, 500,000,000. Pretty high number actually.

 

[BTTA]

This isn't 13th century feudal Japan we are talking about here. This is the 21st century United States of America. Having the freedom to choose your employer, including choosing among several employers in your field, is a very normal condition of our lives and something that roughly 99.99% of Americans have the right to do.

The right, but not the opportunity. A small percentage actually have that, in reality.

 

[XLIX]

The right, but not the opportunity. A small percentage actually have that, in reality.

Bullcrap. Even your typical burger flipper at Burger King can choose to go to McDonald's if they want.

 

[XLIX]

Roughly 50,000,000,000 people have lived. So, 500,000,000. Pretty high number actually.

It is actually more than double that amount, but anyone can be off by 50 billion....

 

[mgteich]

They can choose not to play in the NFL, if they choose to play then they have to abide by the rules. No different than if I want to work for a company, I can choose to take the job and follow those rules or choose another company.

So it's the same if you are say a banker?

Of course you need to follow the rules of the company you negotiate with and CHOOSE to work for. That is not under any dispute.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

If you mean what is my ideal NFL as it relates to this issue, then I believe the Union did not negotiate in good faith. Most Unions negotiate with management to raise the salaries of both current and future members. But that didn't happen here. The NFLPA was all too eager to throw the future members under the bus in order to benefit the current membership. IMHO, they did not act in good faith.

My ideal situation is that rookies are UFA's. There would still be a salary cap and perhaps even a hard rookie salary cap (meaning a hard rookie cap for all teams, not the one they have now which depends on how many picks you have and where you selected them) if they can find a way to negotiate it in good faith.

I also believe that, while it is likely years and years away, this will eventually happen. In the meantime, I believe a situation where a guy can enter the draft, get drafted, and then choose to go back to school is very good idea (then enter the draft fresh the next year).

Two things:
1. The only rookies who are worse off now than those drafted before 2010 are the very top players. Remember the median NFL player makes about $1M a year and the majority of NFL players do not reach a second contract.

2. Players can refuse to sign with the team that drafts them and re-enter the draft the next year; the CBA specifically bars the team that drafted them the first time from drafting them again.