BOTTOM LINE - Entering NFL Employees Have No Choice

[mgteich]

The reality is that the players have haven agreement that forces new employees to work for someone they don't wish to work for. They have no choice for four years. Yes, they are paid well. Previous players have negotiated with regard to how much current players are paid.

Except for a relative few, NFL employees have zero to do with who they work for when they are hired, and for 4 years. As an aside, many players would succeed much better if they were able to negotiate and decide their employer.
=================
So, let's be CLEAR, the players have dealt away a lot for a lot of money. And, of course, the consumers have the same right as always. They can buy the product or not. In fact, for this product, for almost ALL the time, the fans don't have to pay at all to see the product. They do have to pay to sit in a stadium.

 

[mgcolby]

No offense MG but **** that these kids instantly start making more money than 95% of the population. I for one am not crying for them.

 

[jmt57]

Yes, it's true that this is one of the very few professions in which the employee does not have a say in his choice of employment. But professional sports are unique. There are multiple individual companies but it's as if they are separate divisions or locations within the same corporation.

What is the alternative? Prior to the rookie wage scale you had a guy that had never played a down - Sam Bradford - signed to a a six-year, $78 million deal, which had $50 million of guarantees and a maximum value of $86 million. This was a time when the entire annual cap for teams was only about $120 million. Unproven rookies got big bucks, and proven veterans got whatever was left over.

How Rookie Wage Scale Has Changed the Way NFL Teams Draft

Under the old collective bargaining agreement, cash-conscious teams like the New England Patriots, Green Bay Packers and Baltimore Ravens did everything in their power to trade down if they could.​

​

By trading down, cash-conscious teams avoided paying rookies exorbitant salaries and accumulated additional draft picks along the way. In most cases, the additional picks proved to have better monetary value in correlation to their on-field performances.​

Getting rid of the CBA and the salary cap might indeed make it fairer for the players/employees - similar to any other profession. But what are the side effects? The big market/rich owners spend freely, buying championships, while the rest of the teams focus on making a profit rather than trying to win? In the long run that's going to be worse for the players, because interest in the game will wane as the majority of teams become less competitive.

The best decision pro football owners ever made was back in the early sixties. Big market team owners (Giants, Bears, Rams) put their own personal gain to the side, and opted to equally share television contract revenues. Before that each team made their own contracts. It is not a coincidence that since that moment popularity in pro football skyrocketed, while the 'national pastime' - baseball, with its disparity between big market and small market teams - declined dramatically, relative to its popularity in the 1950s.


A National Football League with a distinct line between the haves and have nots, exacerbated by all the best players choosing the 'haves', is not a sport that will prosper.

 

[mgteich]

No offense MG but **** that these kids instantly start making more money than 95% of the population. I for one am not crying for them.

I understand.

So, hospitals should be able to have a lottery of top young doctors who should be forced to work for 10% pay for 5 years?

There are societies like that. This isn't one of them.

So one is asking for you to think that the very highly talented in any way deserve to be paid more than barkeeps.

There are tens of thousands of football players who devote 10-15 years and get nothing. The best of the best who make billions for their owners should be able to negotiate for their "share' of the pie. and they do. They have given up the right to choose their employer.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, it's true that this is one of the very few professions in which the employee does not have a say in his choice of employment. But professional sports are unique. There are multiple individual companies but it's as if they are separate divisions or locations within the same corporation.

What is the alternative? Prior to the rookie wage scale you had a guy that had never played a down - Sam Bradford - signed to a a six-year, $78 million deal, which had $50 million of guarantees and a maximum value of $86 million. This was a time when the entire annual cap for teams was only about $120 million. Unproven rookies got big bucks, and proven veterans got whatever was left over.

Under the old collective bargaining agreement, cash-conscious teams like the New England Patriots, Green Bay Packers and Baltimore Ravens did everything in their power to trade down if they could.​

​

By trading down, cash-conscious teams avoided paying rookies exorbitant salaries and accumulated additional draft picks along the way. In most cases, the additional picks proved to have better monetary value in correlation to their on-field performances.​

Getting rid of the CBA and the salary cap might indeed make it fairer for the players/employees - similar to any other profession. But what are the side effects? The big market/rich owners spend freely, buying championships, while the rest of the teams focus on making a profit rather than trying to win? In the long run that's going to be worse for the players, because interest in the game will wane as the majority of teams become less competitive.

The best decision pro football owners ever made was back in the early sixties. Big market team owners (Giants, Bears, Rams) put their own personal gain to the side, and opted to equally share television contract revenues. Before that each team made their own contracts. It is not a coincidence that since that moment popularity in pro football skyrocketed, while the 'national pastime' - baseball, with its disparity between big market and small market teams - declined dramatically, relative to its popularity in the 1950s.


A National Football League with a distinct line between the haves and have nots, exacerbated by all the best players choosing the 'haves', is not a sport that will prosper.

I agree that the CBA has negotiated a very good system for all. I was just pointing out a serious tradeoff. The reality is that guys like Daniels have zero right to choose their employer.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I understand.

So, hospitals should be able to have a lottery of top young doctors who should be forced to work for 10% pay for 5 years?

There are societies like that. This isn't one of them.

So one is asking for you to think that the very highly talented in any way deserve to be paid more than barkeeps.

There are tens of thousands of football players who devote 10-15 years and get nothing. The best of the best who make billions for their owners should be able to negotiate for their "share' of the pie. and they do. They have given up the right to choose their employer.

Poor example with physicians. they have a match program where they list their preferences for hospitals but there is no guarantee they will match there.. and often it is 3-4 years. NRMP

 

[Water Boy]

Ya it sucks when a rookie phenom goes to a crap team and lifts the franchise into superbowl contention.

Would be much better if certain teams are perennially stacked and others perpetually suck.

 

[mgcolby]

I understand.

So, hospitals should be able to have a lottery of top young doctors who should be forced to work for 10% pay for 5 years?

There are societies like that. This isn't one of them.

So one is asking for you to think that the very highly talented in any way deserve to be paid more than barkeeps.

There are tens of thousands of football players who devote 10-15 years and get nothing. The best of the best who make billions for their owners should be able to negotiate for their "share' of the pie. and they do. They have given up the right to choose their employer.

That's BS these kids get a free education and then paid in the top 5% of the population. Cry me a river. Doctors pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to get their degree. I don't know the rate of full rides for doctors but I am going to go out on a short limb and say it's hardly 99% as it is in the NFL.

And no one of forcing them to go play in the NFL. They earned a free degree. Nothing stopping them from going into their field of choice and choosing their employer. Comparing major league sports with the average occupation is simply foolish. It's unlike any other occupation. The average person can prepare themselves to enter just about any occupation they want given the proper will power and resources. Only a very select few humans have the physical attributes to be professional athletes. It's simply not comparable.

 

[HSanders]

a lot more doctors have opted more and more to work for hospitals for set salaries rather than go into private practice. so they are choosing the model more like the nfl.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

People that play a game for a living really shouldn't complain about being forced to work for someone they don't wish to work for.

That game has established rules and they need to be heeded.

 

[Vindicate]

No offense MG but **** that these kids instantly start making more money than 95% of the population. I for one am not crying for them.

I mean. A lot of them completely destroy their bodies before making that money. An overwhelming majority. Kids have died in college while the program takes in money.

An overwhelming majority of these players have a short shelf life, under which their average career earnings begin to look paltry.

Even entirely disregarding that macro, in the micro of a hefty 1st pick overall contract of 38~ million or a 1st rounder in general, it is absolutely ****ed that the best player can get drafted to an absolute garbage ****hole organization that decimates his career. Insane. Pay is great but this is also a career by which folks have defined their entire lives, for which they deserve the respect, at the very least, to know that an organization will not jerk them around like - and I HATE to say this - the Patriots did Mac.

 

[Vindicate]

What is the alternative? Prior to the rookie wage scale you had a guy that had never played a down - Sam Bradford - signed to a a six-year, $78 million deal, which had $50 million of guarantees and a maximum value of $86 million. This was a time when the entire annual cap for teams was only about $120 million. Unproven rookies got big bucks, and proven veterans got whatever was left over.

That is an alternative, but not the only alternative. Crucial to this discussion are the NFL and owners, who amass and build their empire in large part to the players, especially factoring in all the other avenues of profit driven from social media, ticket sales, fan stores, and more.

 

[Ivan]

The reality is that the players have haven agreement that forces new employees to work for someone they don't wish to work for. They have no choice for four years. Yes, they are paid well. Previous players have negotiated with regard to how much current players are paid.

Except for a relative few, NFL employees have zero to do with who they work for when they are hired, and for 4 years. As an aside, many players would succeed much better if they were able to negotiate and decide their employer.
=================
So, let's be CLEAR, the players have dealt away a lot for a lot of money. And, of course, the consumers have the same right as always. They can buy the product or not. In fact, for this product, for almost ALL the time, the fans don't have to pay at all to see the product. They do have to pay to sit in a stadium.

Thanks MG, that needed to be said. Be on the lookout for my next thread: Young Men Forced to Play Violent Sport to Survive. It’s a deep dive into a super secret society that forces young college men into indentured servitude where they must engage in violent behavior just to satisfy the bloodlust of a select group of billionaires. It’s a very disturbing expose.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I like the baseball model.

In baseball you do not have to sign ... teams have a set amount to spend on the draftees. Players can go back to school another year and enter the draft again ... teams gain a pick in the following draft. With the NIL the best prospects can earn either way.

The top 2-3 rounds of the NFL Draft would be insane if they had this model ... then again high drafted players still would get drafted by suck teams but if they are free agents after senior year as in the NHL the bidding would be interesting. The NFLPA is the weakest of unions ... this gives some power back to the players.

Sports owners make a profit no matter how they run their organization ... reason why suck franchises just keep punting. NFL fans travel well ... stadiums are always pretty much full either way. So yes getting drafted by these sled teams is brutal.

Hockey college players also do not have to sign ...
they can enter the NHL as a free agent upon graduating.
This also would be interesting for the NFL.

 

[mgteich]

Poor example with physicians. they have a match program where they list their preferences for hospitals but there is no guarantee they will match there.. and often it is 3-4 years. NRMP

???

You truly believe that the top hospitals don't take the top candidates? OK, the doctors state preferences. Do you think that Danels has stated preferences to his agent. Do the hospital care/ Some do. Do the NFL teams care? Some do,

 

[Tunescribe]

The reality is that the players have haven agreement that forces new employees to work for someone they don't wish to work for. They have no choice for four years. Yes, they are paid well. Previous players have negotiated with regard to how much current players are paid.

Except for a relative few, NFL employees have zero to do with who they work for when they are hired, and for 4 years. As an aside, many players would succeed much better if they were able to negotiate and decide their employer.
=================
So, let's be CLEAR, the players have dealt away a lot for a lot of money. And, of course, the consumers have the same right as always. They can buy the product or not. In fact, for this product, for almost ALL the time, the fans don't have to pay at all to see the product. They do have to pay to sit in a stadium.

What's your point? Qualifying for an NFL player's salary is a privilege bearing important stipulations without which the league would not exist -- at least, not equitably between teams.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Darn socialist system (salary cap/floor, split TV revenues, the draft) with a hyper capitalist underpinning.

For all intents and purposes, these dudes will all be working for the same parent conglomerate holding company, and these wet behind the ears 1st year warrior consultants don't have that much of a say in which duty station / branch office / McDonald's franchisee they'll be at. Those 257 gotta do their time... unless they're one of the 300-500 UDFAs, then they can go wherever for way less money.

 

[DaBruinz]

I understand.

So, hospitals should be able to have a lottery of top young doctors who should be forced to work for 10% pay for 5 years?

There are literally LOAN Forgiveness programs that do essentially this for doctors, nurses, and teachers.

Where do you get off claiming that these guys in the NFL are getting 10% pay? Rookie contracts are $795K dude. Newsflash.. PEOPLE straight out of college aren't making the same as degreed people who have been working for a company for 10 years.

There are societies like that. This isn't one of them.

So one is asking for you to think that the very highly talented in any way deserve to be paid more than barkeeps.

There are tens of thousands of football players who devote 10-15 years and get nothing. The best of the best who make billions for their owners should be able to negotiate for their "share' of the pie. and they do. They have given up the right to choose their employer.

You seemed to have missed the 80s and 90s when there was no real Free Agency and such. And teams could just spend however much they wanted to keep their dominance.
Your entire spiel is based on you looking at it as if what happens in HS and College means a damn thing to the NFL. It doesn't and shouldn't.

Like every person who has never owned a business, you think that the owners shouldn't get s**t for their time and effort and money THEY put into things. Players are set to receive $8.172B this year. And that doesn't include a whole bunch of perks like medical. The owners portions are LESS than that, in case you've forgotten. And the owners don't get to keep the money not spent.. If they don't meet the cap floor, it get's paid out to the players who were a part of said team during said years they didn't meet the cap floor.

There are literally students who put in 8-10 years on COLLEGE, Graduate, and go to work at Starbucks with $500K in debt. Why should these kids have a choice beyond submitting their resume to the entity known as the NFL? The DRAFT is just different divisions deciding where an employee will work. The candidate doesn't have to sign a contract even if they are drafted. They can sit out a year and go back into the draft. Or they can go somewhere else. Like Canada. Or go find a company to work at in their major..

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

???

You truly believe that the top hospitals don't take the top candidates? OK, the doctors state preferences. Do you think that Danels has stated preferences to his agent. Do the hospital care/ Some do. Do the NFL teams care? Some do,

Of course they do. my point was that the matching program was akin to the NFL draft where physicians can state their preference and hospitals decide who they want and match with them. Those that don't match ( 10% of all graduates) are essentially free agents able to find a hospital like UDFA.

 

[signbabybrady]

I mean. A lot of them completely destroy their bodies before making that money. An overwhelming majority. Kids have died in college while the program takes in money.

An overwhelming majority of these players have a short shelf life, under which their average career earnings begin to look paltry.

Even entirely disregarding that macro, in the micro of a hefty 1st pick overall contract of 38~ million or a 1st rounder in general, it is absolutely ****ed that the best player can get drafted to an absolute garbage ****hole organization that decimates his career. Insane. Pay is great but this is also a career by which folks have defined their entire lives, for which they deserve the respect, at the very least, to know that an organization will not jerk them around like - and I HATE to say this - the Patriots did Mac.

Bill Belichick's a commie