Mark Daniels on the fall of Mac Jones

[Boomer B]

Looking at all these reports the one thing that can be said is that the Pats became a circus the last few years. What a **** show.

Belichick: Ring Master
Mac: Tightrope Walker
Joe Judge: Clown

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Yeah, that’s not what happened. They had no idea what they had in Purdy. All their QB were injured and they had to play him. They didn’t surrounded him with talent. It was already there.

In fact the notion that the 49ers build the roster first before the QB is completely false.

They got Jimmy G first. The only player they already had was Kittle who they drafted 6 month before in the 5th round. All the talent you see now has been added after they got Jimmy for Jimmy.

Whether they had the talent first or not doesn't matter, the bottom line is they had the talent for a 7th rounder to succeed and gave him the proper support to get him there.

 

[Peachhead]

If you don't think Brady consulted with people outside the organization for help on his game, you are kidding yourself. There has to be more to it than that. I am sure most QBs, at the the ones who want to improve their game, look to outside sources for help.

I am guessing that the way he asked for help was the issue and he probably told whoever he was talking to that Patricia and Judge didn't know what they were doing and he needed help and that got back to Belichick.

Sure Brady did it but: he did it with the team's knowledge (and probably OK), and he didn't do it with a member of the press. I also think Mac did in-season, unlike Brady, but I'm not positive. Mac wasn't getting pointers on his game, he was gossiping and whining. Just like that backhanded comment to the Jets staff in the last game when he was demoted to #3. Sure, it would have been nice for BB to inform Mac beforehand. But it's still not cause to take Mac's passive-aggressive BS to the other team.

The first time he did it and ended up in BB's doghouse I can maybe, partially give him a pass for. He was inexperienced and maybe didn't know he was breaking one of the most basic rules of most teams. The second time was a blatant middle finger to BB & O'Brien.

(the second time was when O'Brien was here and Patricia was long gone)

 

[Real fan 02]

Yeah, that’s not what happened. They had no idea what they had in Purdy. All their QB were injured and they had to play him. They didn’t surrounded him with talent. It was already there.

In fact the notion that the 49ers build the roster first before the QB is completely false.

They got Jimmy G first. The only player they already had was Kittle who they drafted 6 month before in the 5th round. All the talent you see now has been added after they got Jimmy for Jimmy.

What are u talking about dude?????? .. or either u misread my post. I said they had 3 QBs right? Lance? Jimmy and got Purdy right? Jimmy was told he wasn't in the teams plans.. they had trey.. he was chosen as the starter, he struggled, got hurt and ultimately got replaced by brock..

Now let's look at his weapons ayuik, debo, McCaffrey, Kittle, an all pro offense line, a stout defense, a great offensive minded coach. They got the QB position right by trial and error, Lance got hurt and Purdy tuned out to be good for what they do in thier system. I think we can agree ?

 

[Real fan 02]

Whether they had the talent first or not doesn't matter, the bottom line is they had the talent for a 7th rounder to succeed and gave him the proper support to get him there.

Yeah I just laid it all out for him.. agreed with you 100%

 

[upstater1]

The GM allowed it, the GM put the team together, the GM put the roster in place. I don't care what is said about ownership..the GM is paid to make roster decisions Including the QB!!!!!

The owner said it, by all accounts it happened. Why in the world is there an article about Jakobi being Bill's guy way back before we knew that Jakobi by far and away was the right guy over JuJu? This shows how much things had changed. You think reporters picked the name Davis Mills out of a hat? Why didn't they say Kyle Trask who was picked ahead of Mills?

 

[upstater1]

Yeah I just laid it all out for him.. agreed with you 100%

Purdy is much better than everyone except Lawrence. You can't plug and play another random guy into that. I'm not saying he's Brady. I'm saying he was the 2nd best QB in that draft, and could very well be THE best in a year.

It's pretty clear when I watch him play. He stands in there, he takes shots, he moves well, he plays fearlessly, he's exactly who you want in a QB.

People are making the mistake of thinking Purdy is a "system" QB when he was the 2nd best QB in that draft. BETTER than Garoppolo by far.

 

[upstater1]

Have a look at the offensive line in front of Brady in 2014 when Scar was still the OC. Watch Brady move around the pocket. Don't pay any attention to his throws or where he goes with the ball. We know no QB coming in is going to be Brady or to throw as well as him. I'm talking about pressure, I'm talking about staying on his base, good mechanics, stepping up into the pocket. This should be what any QB is required to do, which is not wilt when the defense merely breathes on him. I'd argue Zappe was good at doing the same types of things, but of course does not have the rest of the package.

 

[Real fan 02]

Purdy is much better than everyone except Lawrence. You can't plug and play another random guy into that. I'm not saying he's Brady. I'm saying he was the 2nd best QB in that draft, and could very well be THE best in a year.

It's pretty clear when I watch him play. He stands in there, he takes shots, he moves well, he plays fearlessly, he's exactly who you want in a QB.

People are making the mistake of thinking Purdy is a "system" QB when he was the 2nd best QB in that draft. BETTER than Garoppolo by far.

I agree, I believe I think with Purdy I've mentioned that I'd want to see him play with lesser player's like another QB that was picked at 199.. Brady elevated guys, the player's around Purdy elevate him is the difference. He is solid QB, taking nothing away from the kid.

 

[Real fan 02]

You're blind as a bat if you can't see Mac was the problem

Mac was one of the problems on the putrid offensive side of the ball. The entire offense was bad the personnel just everything

 

[archstanton543]

Zappe was no better. The whole offense was trash.

Zeke was good. (not great)

 

[RIpats88]

I agree, I believe I think with Purdy I've mentioned that I'd want to see him play with lesser player's like another QB that was picked at 199.. Brady elevated guys, the player's around Purdy elevate him is the difference. He is solid QB, taking nothing away from the kid.

I think its naïve or just pure ignorance to act like situation doesn't matter with a young QB and how they currently look. or its just upstarters blind devotion to defending Bill. so no blame can go to the roster.

Purdy (like mahomes) was drafted into a perfect situation. offensive minded coach, strong OL, multiple elite weapons, a solid defense. thats not to take away from anything they did with that. you still need to perform.

but would purdy be the same had he been drafted to the patriots. given a DC as his playcaller, the likes of riley reif as his lineman and Juju/Parker instead of deebo/ayuk/mccafery? Highly doubtful.

Fans desperately want mac jones to be 100% of the problem and we plug another guy in and its super bowl!!. but we cant ignore the huge elephant in the room that is the roster/coaching etc. that was put around him.

unless we want to repeat the same mistake with the next QB we draft.

 

[RIpats88]

Lol, when I read this I wonder, what happened to the Patriots? The last few years the place became a drama filled reality show: The Real Housewives of Foxboro. Place had more leaks than the Titanic. Everyone was leaking: Belichick, Mac, Patricia, BoB, Mayo, Jonathan, Trent, JackJones, and bunch of other players.

I remember when Slatter pronounced those cryptic words about the players a few years ago, a bunch of us thought Bill had lost the locker room. Bill's Team called us all haters. Lol, turns out place has been falling apart for years.

idk if Bill was losing it mentally or what the last few years. I mean the leaks, the bizarre decisions like hiring Judge/Patricia to coach the offense, signing jags off the scrap heap for his offense.

its like he just didn't care anymore and was just chasing that Shula record. and now i'm supposed to be surprised a team doesn't want to hand him the GM role...

 

[archstanton543]

Sure Brady did it but: he did it with the team's knowledge (and probably OK), and he didn't do it with a member of the press. I also think Mac did in-season, unlike Brady, but I'm not positive. Mac wasn't getting pointers on his game, he was gossiping and whining. Just like that backhanded comment to the Jets staff in the last game when he was demoted to #3. Sure, it would have been nice for BB to inform Mac beforehand. But it's still not cause to take Mac's passive-aggressive BS to the other team.

The first time he did it and ended up in BB's doghouse I can maybe, partially give him a pass for. He was inexperienced and maybe didn't know he was breaking one of the most basic rules of most teams. The second time was a blatant middle finger to BB & O'Brien.

(the second time was when O'Brien was here and Patricia was long gone)

You have no proof any of that happened. All you have is a lot of speculation from "anonymous" sources that are trying to kick Mac when he's down. Like I said before, players talk to outside coaches all the time. They may even vent about their frustrations especially if things aren't going well and they trust the person they're talking to. They're human beings like the rest of us. There isn't a person among us who hasn't complained about work at one time or another to a friend or colleague or asked advice about a work situation.

 

[archstanton543]

idk if Bill was losing it mentally or what the last few years. I mean the leaks, the bizarre decisions like hiring Judge/Patricia to coach the offense, signing jags off the scrap heap for his offense.

its like he just didn't care anymore and was just chasing that Shula record. and now i'm supposed to be surprised a team doesn't want to hand him the GM role...

I'm not sure what the Patricia/Judge thing was all about (hubris, maybe?) but the offensive strategy is pretty much was the one he was running with Brady. Get mid-level (or below) talent and then have the QB elevate them. The problem is that strategy needs a Brady or HoF level talent at QB to get it to work.

 

[RIpats88]

I'm not sure what the Patricia/Judge thing was all about (hubris, maybe?) but the offensive strategy is pretty much was the one he was running with Brady. Get mid-level (or below) talent and then have the QB elevate them. The problem is that strategy needs a Brady or HoF level talent at QB to get it to work.

has to be hubris right? or just Bill really views offense as nothing more than "eh anyone can coach it". because he even views the draft/free agency with offense as "eh ill draft defense and take offense later" or "eh i'll sign a bunch of jags it will be fine"

just the idea that you can promote 2 guys that NEVER coached offense in their lives to the highest play calling position possible was such an obvious poor decision. half this board/the national and local media all were saying how bizarre and unprecedented a decision this is in the NFL and wouldn't work out. the only people really defending it are the Bill honks. who will defend anything. I could've picked a better OC or told Kraft it wouldn't work...and I don't make $30million to make these decisions. i'm just on my couch watching.

theres an alternative universe where Bill goes out and either promotes Caley or hires someone with actual play calling experience and that season we have a competent offense and make the playoffs. Hiring 2 bozos who never coached offense AT ALL and then expecting them to implement a shanahan style offense is one of the most incompetent/bizarre decisions. and ultimately lead to bills firing.

RE The roster building, I mean that strategy works also when you have guys like Gronkowski/Edelman or Moss/Welker who are your clear #1's or 1A. other than 2006, 2013 and 2019 when he was left out to dry, Brady always had at least a #1 guy. something changed. Its like Bill didn't care to find another Gronk, moss etc.... bill was content building a team with a bunch of Chris hogans/brandon lafells as your #1 receiving target. maybe he just got old and didn't want to deal with their "personalities"

I mean he did try and trade gronk which would've robbed us of a superbowl in 2018 and left brady out to dry again. And Meyers i'm still convinced he let go because he "defied" his binky patricia and was pretty vocal about how poor the coaching was.

Thats not to say I think Mac Jones is the guy. I mean you watch all these other QB's look at Jordan Love. he's making throws off his back foot at ease. Mac clearly had physical limitations and a pretty low ceiling. And he has his share of the blame as well of how he handled the situation, his lack of leadership and just showing he doesn't have the mental fortitude to perform when things aren't going right (which will happen in the playoffs).

I just don't agree that we need to ignore all of the other factors besides Mac Jones. Zappe was just as bad in the same situation this year. he just didn't turtle as much under pressure. but he had a worse QB rating and still had more picks than TD's. yet now the Defend Bill crowd has shifted to "well thats just because zappe sucked too" even though half of them were telling us Zappe would unlock the potential of this offense prior to that...

 

[Lagaffe_07]

What are u talking about dude?????? .. or either u misread my post. I said they had 3 QBs right? Lance? Jimmy and got Purdy right? Jimmy was told he wasn't in the teams plans.. they had trey.. he was chosen as the starter, he struggled, got hurt and ultimately got replaced by brock..

Now let's look at his weapons ayuik, debo, McCaffrey, Kittle, an all pro offense line, a stout defense, a great offensive minded coach. They got the QB position right by trial and error, Lance got hurt and Purdy tuned out to be good for what they do in thier system. I think we can agree ?

My point is they didn’t build the roster first to plug a QB later. They identified Jimmy, got him and then build the roster around him. In the end it didn’t work out with him.

The post which I responded to made it sound like the plan was always to build a roster to plug a 7th round pick which isn’t the case. They had no idea what they had in Purdy. They lucked out when Trey and then Jimmy got hurt last year. There never was a plan to develop Purdy to become the starter in the futur when they drafted him. That’s all I am saying.

Their OL is horrible this year. They have Trent Williams but that’s it. Did you watch their playoff games? Purdy is consistently under pressure.

 

[Real fan 02]

My point is they didn’t build the roster first to plug a QB later. They identified Jimmy, got him and then build the roster around him. In the end it didn’t work out with him.

The post which I responded to made it sound like the plan was always to build a roster to plug a 7th round pick which isn’t the case. They had no idea what they had in Purdy. They lucked out when Trey and then Jimmy got hurt last year. There never was a plan to develop Purdy to become the starter in the futur when they drafted him. That’s all I am saying.

Their OL is horrible this year. They have Trent Williams but that’s it. Did you watch their playoff games? Purdy is consistently under pressure.

Agreed, we both are making the same point. Thier o line is pretty stout, I did watch thier playoff games, the Green Bay and Detroit defensive lines are pretty stout as well, and any team in the playoffs are going to be pretty good. However I will say that whenever Purdy has struggled they 9ners have lost in the regular season. However the most Important stat in being a starter at QB is wins and Purdy has those.

 

[Real fan 02]

I think its naïve or just pure ignorance to act like situation doesn't matter with a young QB and how they currently look. or its just upstarters blind devotion to defending Bill. so no blame can go to the roster.

Purdy (like mahomes) was drafted into a perfect situation. offensive minded coach, strong OL, multiple elite weapons, a solid defense. thats not to take away from anything they did with that. you still need to perform.

but would purdy be the same had he been drafted to the patriots. given a DC as his playcaller, the likes of riley reif as his lineman and Juju/Parker instead of deebo/ayuk/mccafery? Highly doubtful.

Fans desperately want mac jones to be 100% of the problem and we plug another guy in and its super bowl!!. but we cant ignore the huge elephant in the room that is the roster/coaching etc. that was put around him.

unless we want to repeat the same mistake with the next QB we draft.

Absolutely on point! Purdy we know wouldn't thrive in this situation. As Curran and many reputable reporters around the team said. The organization was still operating as if Brady was still here. Going after tier 3 & 4 offensive player's with the belief the " system " or the coaching would allow them to thrive. There is only 1 Brady. Mac was a young guy coming in, a millennial, totally different type of generation. What work for Brady isn't going to work for him or even Purdy if he was here.

 

[Peachhead]

You have no proof any of that happened. All you have is a lot of speculation from "anonymous" sources that are trying to kick Mac when he's down. Like I said before, players talk to outside coaches all the time. They may even vent about their frustrations especially if things aren't going well and they trust the person they're talking to. They're human beings like the rest of us. There isn't a person among us who hasn't complained about work at one time or another to a friend or colleague or asked advice about a work situation.

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/new-england-patriots-mac-jones-bill-belichick-tension-trade-obrien-alabama-rumors-call

That Google search took me about 2 minutes

On edit: Why Mac Jones Apparently Gets Weekly Texts From Dan Orlovsky