BB watch

[sb1]

The teams win/loss record has regressed because of qb play. The overall play outside of the qb has not.

Yes it has and not just a little. By a lot.

Also

2023 NFL pass rush, run stop, blocking win rate rankings

Our win rate metics stack the NFL's best run-blocking, run-stopping, pass-protecting and pass-rushing players and teams.

www.espn.com

Look who is ranked dead last in the league in pass block win rate. If that wasn't the case the QB performance is better. It's shouldn't be hard to understand.

 

[Ring 6]

It's not just QB. There are problems up and down the offensive roster.

Every team has problems. The nonQb problems put the team at a contender level.
The defense is championship caliber, despite a rash of injuries.
When the starting 5 on the OL have been healthy, which isn’t often, they have been ok. The receivers can’t be judged in the 12 games 10 was the qb because he wouldn’t execute the play as called. You can’t blame a receiver for the ball not being thrown to them.
The offensive roster is being defining by the QB play, which is exactly the point. It’s astonishing to me that people who think the qb is all that matters, stare horrific qb play in the face and dismiss it.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes it has and not just a little. By a lot.

Also

2023 NFL pass rush, run stop, blocking win rate rankings

Our win rate metics stack the NFL's best run-blocking, run-stopping, pass-protecting and pass-rushing players and teams.

www.espn.com

Look who is ranked dead last in the league in pass block win rate. If that wasn't the case the QB performance is better. It's shouldn't be hard to understand.

No if you remove the horrible QB play and replace it with average qb play this team is in the playoffs every year.

Win rate is not “OL ranking”. It’s a subjective calculation based upon someone’s opinion. They are tied at 14-17 in sacks allowed, in other words right in the middle of the pack.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm sure their 23rd ranked Oline had nothing to do with it. Or their non-blocking TE's.

Every football team has strengths and weaknesses. The cumulation of that with the Patriots is 4-11. The cumulation of that with the patriots of the qb position was merely average of a little below average instead of putrid is at least 9-6.
9-6 is not a team without flaws. 9-6 is a team likely to make the playoffs and not likely to advance too far.
9-6 also considers ol issues due to many injuries, cb injuries, Judon not playing, etc etc.

 

[sb1]

“Bad personnel” is conjecture and nothing more.
I can point to awful qb play in very close losses. Anyone with knowledge and objectivity can see that if you lose 10-6 while your qb stinks and he throws an int by under throwing a wide open receiver that is 15 years away by 7 yards for no reason whatsoever that anything but horrific qb play wins that game. You are lying if you deny it. That’s really the reason it’s silly to have this discussion. I am doing an honest assessment of the play on the field and you don’t care about honest discussion.

I already pointed out that the OL was terrible in those losses, and they were.
The roster stinks like the morgue and there's only one guy to blame for that.

The defense has been saddled with the 4th worst starting field position and allowed the 3rd fewest scoring drive %, the 3rd fewest plays per drive, 3rd fewest yards per drive and 5th fewest points per drive.

Great defenses don't let this happen.

Cowboys 38-3 Patriots (Oct 1, 2023) Final Score - ESPN

Game summary of the Dallas Cowboys vs. New England Patriots NFL game, final score 38-3, from October 1, 2023 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

Saints 34-0 Patriots (Oct 8, 2023) Final Score - ESPN

Game summary of the New Orleans Saints vs. New England Patriots NFL game, final score 34-0, from October 8, 2023 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

Also this game allowing big chunk plays on 3rd down.

Chiefs 27-17 Patriots (Dec 17, 2023) Final Score - ESPN

Game summary of the Kansas City Chiefs vs. New England Patriots NFL game, final score 27-17, from December 17, 2023 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

16th in points. Out of the top 10 in pass defense. Ranked in the bottom quarter of the league in turnovers and in pass rush.

That's not a defense I'd call "great".

 

[sb1]

No if you remove the horrible QB play and replace it with average qb play this team is in the playoffs every year.

Conjecture. It's opinion dressed up as fact. The roster stinks and very few if any would even start for a decent playoff team. That's informed opinion.

Win rate is not “OL ranking”. It’s a subjective calculation based upon someone’s opinion. They are tied at 14-17 in sacks allowed, in other words right in the middle of the pack.

So in other words the stat means nothing because you don't like its conclusions. Ok.

Dead. Last.

If they weren't... the QB play would be better.

 

[Ring 6]

Conjecture. It's opinion dressed up as fact. The roster stinks and very few if any would even start for a decent playoff team. That's informed opinion.



So in other words the stat means nothing because you don't like its conclusions. Ok.

Dead. Last.

If they weren't... the QB play would be better.

Your opinions are also conjecture so saying that is pointless. Mine identifies specific plays in games that a competant qb doesn’t screw up which costs those games. Yours says they lost so everyone must suck.

The stat has what meaning it has. It’s an arbitrary judgment that doesn’t translate to meaning in the field. They are league average in sacks.

 

[sb1]

Your opinions are also conjecture so saying that is pointless.

No, it's informed opinion based on stats. I said yesterday that one and maybe 2 offensive starters would be starting for the Bills right now.
That's it. Everyone else on the Bills is better.

That's a team on the verge of firing their HC and GM and rightfully so. Not on the verge of the playoffs.

Yours says they lost so everyone must suck.

If they didn't suck I wouldn't say they do.

The stat has what meaning it has. It’s an arbitrary judgment that doesn’t translate to meaning in the field. They are league average in sacks.

Sacks are one very small part of measuring the quality of an offensive line.

The OL sucks big time against the pass partly because they just don't have many quality players starting. Can't expect them to play above their talent level. That's been a problem for a while especially at OT. I think you know should be blamed for that.

 

[Ring 6]

I already pointed out that the OL was terrible in those losses, and they were.
The roster stinks like the morgue and there's only one guy to blame for that.



Great defenses don't let this happen.

Cowboys 38-3 Patriots (Oct 1, 2023) Final Score - ESPN

Game summary of the Dallas Cowboys vs. New England Patriots NFL game, final score 38-3, from October 1, 2023 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

Saints 34-0 Patriots (Oct 8, 2023) Final Score - ESPN

Game summary of the New Orleans Saints vs. New England Patriots NFL game, final score 34-0, from October 8, 2023 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

Also this game allowing big chunk plays on 3rd down.

Chiefs 27-17 Patriots (Dec 17, 2023) Final Score - ESPN

Game summary of the Kansas City Chiefs vs. New England Patriots NFL game, final score 27-17, from December 17, 2023 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

16th in points. Out of the top 10 in pass defense. Ranked in the bottom quarter of the league in turnovers and in pass rush.

That's not a defense I'd call "great".

Interesting that you pick games where turnovers by the qb caused a lot of the points.

They are 5th in points allowed per drive, despite being 29th in defensive start position, and face more drives because the offense particularly with 10 at QB couldn’t stay on the field.

With an average offense, which they would have with a competant qb, they would be top 5 in points allowed. The difference between them and #5 is 36 points. 10 gave away 28 on pick 6 and scoop and scores, and how many more set up by his turnovers?

A patriot fan who doesn’t appreciate what the patriot defense has done this year, despite having the deck stacked against them, isn’t really a patriot fan.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No, he has been the GOAT for 23, inclusive of ALL of his years. Every organization has down periods. It took 19 for it to happen here, which is unprecedented.
It happened after:
Going all in to stay on top and go to 4 SBs in 5 years and win 3 of them
Having to pay for that while losing the QB
Maintaining a competitive roster held back by the qb that was almost unanimously considered the right pick, and turned out not to be

In addition to the fact that if you need to rebuild a team, the man who did the best job of it in the history of the sport is sitting in the chair already.
Who are you going to hire who is better?

Status quo sure as hell is not the answer when the team the last two years is 12-20 and has 0 playoff wins in almost 5 years.

No one wins always. Getting rid of the guy who wins more than anyone because of the inevitable downswing is simply people who have no control over what they wish they had control over lashing out at a target to pretend they have control.

...and coaches and GMs don't last always either. Noll. Landry. Name all the great coaches. There comes a point when all of them are no longer great.

 

[Ring 6]

No, it's informed opinion based on stats. I said yesterday that one and maybe 2 offensive starters would be starting for the Bills right now.
That's it. Everyone else on the Bills is better.

The bills are the 6th/4th ranked offense in the NFL.
The patriots are better at wr2 and wr3 if bourne isn’t injured, equal at RB and TE, and at least 2 OL
spots. That 4 better, 4 worse, 2 equal. ITS ALL THE QB.
Switch QBs and the patriots have a good offense and the bills have a bad one.

That's a team on the verge of firing their HC and GM and rightfully so. Not on the verge of the playoffs.



If they didn't suck I wouldn't say they do.

Of course you would because you are a victim and don’t understand the game. Let’s at least be honest.

Sacks are one very small part of measuring the quality of an offensive line.

An important one and 10 isn’t exactly Fran tarkenton back there avoiding sacks. The sack totals show that while you clearly don’t understand what the made up stat “win rate” means, it doesn’t mean what you think it does.

The OL sucks big time against the pass partly because they just don't have many quality players starting. Can't expect them to play above their talent level. That's been a problem for a while especially at OT. I think you know should be blamed for that.

Yet we put a guy who arguably shouldn’t be in the league in there and the offense starts looking good.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Why? It’s not a generic guess, it’s identifying 5 specific games that we win with average qb play. Just average, not good. LV,LA,wash,Indy,NYG. There is no reasonable position that we don’t win everyone of those games with average qb play.
I’m not including games that weren’t directly lost by horrific qb play.

We win those 5 specific games with an improved OL or WR too. Big deal

 

[Ring 6]

Status quo sure as hell is not the answer when the team the last two years is 12-20 and has 0 playoff wins in almost 5 years.


...and coaches and GMs don't last always either. Noll. Landry. Name all the great coaches. There comes a point when all of them are no longer great.

Stays quo is 6 championships in 23 years.
If you have the best guy you keep him. Every team has down times.
Now is when you need him most.

Who are you going to find who is better.

The fallout from staying on top longer than anyone is what you have to accept. Playing victim and firing the highest authority figure you can choose isn’t smart. He is the best who ever did it for a reason.

This team is positioned with 100 mill in cap space, and a high pick. I want the best to ever do the job to stamp the future, not some random hire who has never done it.

 

[Ring 6]

We win those 5 specific games with an improved OL or WR too. Big deal

Probably not, with the QB situation. The WR position was wasted because the qb wouldn’t execute the play and throw to them when they are open.

The larger point is fix qb and this is a solid team, contrary to the victim fan narrative.

 

[sb1]

The bills are the 6th/4th ranked offense in the NFL.
The patriots are better at wr2 and wr3 if bourne isn’t injured

No they're not. Davis would be our WR1 by a mile. I'd take him over Juju who can't run on a bad knee and Parker anyday. That would be different if we still had Meyers but well Bill for some reason decided he was replaceable.

equal at RB

I'd take Cook any day over ours.

and TE,

I'd start a rookie Kincaid over Henry. It's not hard. Kincaid is having a great rookie year and he's going to get better.

and at least 2 OL

Andrews is a top 5 center and Morse is a top 10 center. That's close enough to a wash and you can't go wrong with either.
Onwenu is a wash with Dawkins.

Switch QBs and the patriots have a good offense and the bills have a bad one.

Point is this roster on offense doesn't come close to matching up well with any playoff team. Therefore it's not a stretch to say they have a long way to go before they become playoff worthy and it's not just the QB.

 

[Ross12]

We win those 5 specific games with an improved OL or WR too. Big deal

But what's harder to do, get a Joe Flacco-level QB or add multiple starting OL or a #1 WR?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Stays quo is 6 championships in 23 years.
If you have the best guy you keep him. Every team has down times.
Now is when you need him most.

Who are you going to find who is better.

The fallout from staying on top longer than anyone is what you have to accept. Playing victim and firing the highest authority figure you can choose isn’t smart. He is the best who ever did it for a reason.

This team is positioned with 100 mill in cap space, and a high pick. I want the best to ever do the job to stamp the future, not some random hire who has never done it.

Wrong.

Zero playoff wins in five years and 12-20 last two years is status quo.

01, 03, 14, 16 and 18 were a lifetime ago.

Let the past go.

 

[sb1]

Probably not, with the QB situation. The WR position was wasted because the qb wouldn’t execute the play and throw to them when they are open.

The larger point is fix qb and this is a solid team, contrary to the victim fan narrative.

Fix QB and that's just one piece of the puzzle. By itself it does not make this a great or even good team. Finally address the OL which has been ignored for 4 years and counting and add a receiver then we're on the right path to better things on offense.

 

[sb1]

Of course you would because you are a victim and don’t understand the game. Let’s at least be honest.

"Victim" lol.

Yes I understand the game. My team's coach and GM can't build an offense hence the results this season. What part of that is hard to understand?

 

[Ring 6]

No they're not. Davis would be our WR1 by a mile. I'd take him over Juju who can't run on a bad knee and Parker anyday. That would be different if we still had Meyers but well Bill for some reason decided he was replaceable.


I'd take Cook any day over ours.


I'd start a rookie Kincaid over Henry. It's not hard. Kincaid is having a great rookie year and he's going to get better.


Andrews is a top 5 center and Morse is a top 10 center. That's close enough to a wash and you can't go wrong with either.
Onwenu is a wash with Dawkins.




Point is this roster on offense doesn't come close to matching up well with any playoff team. Therefore it's not a stretch to say they have a long way to go before they become playoff worthy and it's not just the QB.

You aren’t a serious person.