BB watch

[Ring 6]

No the question is how much as the GM/HC held back the team?

I'd say a lot. Case in point: Matt Patricia, offensive co-ordinator.

The gm/hc has the greatest career with one team ever.
I understand you want to play the victim and feel entitled that the dynasty should last forever. That’s impossible. The best man to rebuild is the man who built it to start with. He is proven.
Patricia was saddled with a crappy qb.

 

[Ring 6]

Again, the OL is the worst rated pass blocking OL in the league so there's no evidence that it was solely the QB that lost those games.. If we had a good OL which we do not, both QBs would be better. It's not hard.

Rated by who? You?
The difference between the Qb okay we got and average qb absolutely turns every one of those games into a win. They were extremely close games with F QB play. D QB play makes the difference in those games.
No one said solely, other units or positions could have played better too, but raise the qb play to a D or a C and anyone who knows anything about the game would agree that would have been the difference between winning and losing.

What grade do you put in the qb play through the first 12 games?

 

[The Gr8est]

I don't see much evidence of that in the last 4 seasons and counting.

Are you suggesting that a different GM/HC would NOT have made personnel mistakes?

Can you name someone, who has a large enough sample size to form a pattern?

The draft is an inexact science and the best of them make mistakes. There are also injuries that ruin otherwise good picks.

Replacing BB as HC/GM guarantees nothing, and good luck finding one who is better at finding and developing UDFA gems.

Replacing BB at this time seems personal for some of our fans.

How dare BB not pick the player that THEY think he should!

 

[Ring 6]

Are you suggesting that a different GM/HC would NOT have made personnel mistakes?

Can you name someone, who has a large enough sample size to form a pattern?

The draft is an inexact science and the best of them make mistakes. There are also injuries that ruin otherwise good picks.

Replacing BB as HC/GM guarantees nothing, and good luck finding one who is better at finding and developing UDFA gems.

Replacing BB at this time seems personal for some of our fans.

How dare BB not pick the player that THEY think he should!

This is why the entitled victims have now become #10 apologists, because of you look objectively at the season, the F level QB play, if replaced by C or even D level makes at least 5 losses wins. The entitled victims need a. bad guy to punish for their victim hood, and have settled on “the roster sucks”. Admitting the defense is great and if the qb wasn’t pathetic we are in the thick of the playoff hunt, destroys the narrative.
It’s not that complicated. Look at those 5 games. Replace the qb play we got with C or D level QB play and no objective person would say that wouldn’t be the difference in those 5 games. But the entitled victims can’t have that, because then there is no authority figure to be angry at.

 

[archstanton543]

Are you suggesting that a different GM/HC would NOT have made personnel mistakes?

Can you name someone, who has a large enough sample size to form a pattern?

The draft is an inexact science and the best of them make mistakes. There are also injuries that ruin otherwise good picks.

Replacing BB as HC/GM guarantees nothing, and good luck finding one who is better at finding and developing UDFA gems.

Replacing BB at this time seems personal for some of our fans.

How dare BB not pick the player that THEY think he should!

It's not that black and white. Every GM has busts and bad free agent signings. Every single one. There are some that have fewer than others.

It's the amount of busts and free agent signings BB has made over the last 5+ years plus the lack of a plan to move on from guys like Gronk, Edelman and Brady and ignoring other needs on offense. BB has said in the past that if things don't work out to blame him. Can you blame fans for doing so?

 

[RobertWeathers]

That’s not the question. The question is how much has the qb held back the team.

The real question is how much has BB and his poor coaching and personal moves held back the team's rebuild after Tom left.

 

[sb1]

The gm/hc has the greatest career with one team ever.
I understand you want to play the victim and feel entitled that the dynasty should last forever. That’s impossible. The best man to rebuild is the man who built it to start with. He is proven.

And yet the team has steadily regressed since Brady left. Who coaches the team and makes decisions on the offense? Seems like he's the guy that should have prevented that from happening.

Patricia was saddled with a crappy qb.

You got it backwards. The QB was stuck with an offensive coordinator that never had any business being an offensive coordinator. Do you think that helped the QB?

 

[sb1]

This is why the entitled victims have now become #10 apologists, because of you look objectively at the season, the F level QB play, if replaced by C or even D level makes at least 5 losses wins. The entitled victims need a. bad guy to punish for their victim hood, and have settled on “the roster sucks”. Admitting the defense is great and if the qb wasn’t pathetic we are in the thick of the playoff hunt, destroys the narrative.
It’s not that complicated. Look at those 5 games. Replace the qb play we got with C or D level QB play and no objective person would say that wouldn’t be the difference in those 5 games. But the entitled victims can’t have that, because then there is no authority figure to be angry at.

Conjecture and nothing more.

And the defense is ok. Certainly a lot better than the offense. But calling it "great" is a stretch.

 

[sb1]

Are you suggesting that a different GM/HC would NOT have made personnel mistakes?

Can you name someone, who has a large enough sample size to form a pattern?

The draft is an inexact science and the best of them make mistakes. There are also injuries that ruin otherwise good picks.

Replacing BB as HC/GM guarantees nothing, and good luck finding one who is better at finding and developing UDFA gems.

Replacing BB at this time seems personal for some of our fans.

How dare BB not pick the player that THEY think he should!

There's mistakes and then there's overseeing the personnel on a team that has regressed for 4 years and counting and not seeming to have any answers on how to fix it.

 

[Ring 6]

The real question is how much has BB and his poor coaching and personal moves held back the team's rebuild after Tom left.

The answer is in my posts, the qb position is what has held them back.

 

[Ring 6]

And yet the team has steadily regressed since Brady left. Who coaches the team and makes decisions on the offense? Seems like he's the guy that should have prevented that from happening.

You got it backwards. The QB was stuck with an offensive coordinator that never had any business being an offensive coordinator. Do you think that helped the QB?

The teams win/loss record has regressed because of qb play. The overall play outside of the qb has not.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The answer is in my posts, the qb position is what has held them back.

LOL.

And who made the decisions on that position since Tom left?

 

[Ring 6]

Conjecture and nothing more.

And the defense is ok. Certainly a lot better than the offense. But calling it "great" is a stretch.

“Bad personnel” is conjecture and nothing more.
I can point to awful qb play in very close losses. Anyone with knowledge and objectivity can see that if you lose 10-6 while your qb stinks and he throws an int by under throwing a wide open receiver that is 15 years away by 7 yards for no reason whatsoever that anything but horrific qb play wins that game. You are lying if you deny it. That’s really the reason it’s silly to have this discussion. I am doing an honest assessment of the play on the field and you don’t care about honest discussion.

The defense has been saddled with the 4th worst starting field position and allowed the 3rd fewest scoring drive %, the 3rd fewest plays per drive, 3rd fewest yards per drive and 5th fewest points per drive.

 

[Ring 6]

LOL.

And who made the decisions on that position since Tom left?

So your argument is that the greatest to ever do the job should be fired because he got qb wrong when trans get qb wrong about 75% of the time?

 

[archstanton543]

“Bad personnel” is conjecture and nothing more.
I can point to awful qb play in very close losses. Anyone with knowledge and objectivity can see that if you lose 10-6 while your qb stinks and he throws an int by under throwing a wide open receiver that is 15 years away by 7 yards for no reason whatsoever that anything but horrific qb play wins that game. You are lying if you deny it. That’s really the reason it’s silly to have this discussion. I am doing an honest assessment of the play on the field and you don’t care about honest discussion.

The defense has been saddled with the 4th worst starting field position and allowed the 3rd fewest scoring drive %, the 3rd fewest plays per drive, 3rd fewest yards per drive and 5th fewest points per drive.

I'm sure their 23rd ranked Oline had nothing to do with it. Or their non-blocking TE's.

 

[Steve102]

Can’t believe some Pats fans are cheering on a loss in the finale against the Jets.

In what might be BB’s last game as HC in NE? Come on.

There is no f’n way I’m doing that regardless of the draft.

Eff the Jete.

 

[RobertWeathers]

So your argument is that the greatest to ever do the job should be fired because he got qb wrong when trans get qb wrong about 75% of the time?

...and your argument for retaining him is because he was the GOAT for 19 years and overlook the last four?

 

[archstanton543]

So your argument is that the greatest to ever do the job should be fired because he got qb wrong when trans get qb wrong about 75% of the time?

It's not just QB. There are problems up and down the offensive roster.

 

[Steve102]

I think if Zappe keeps it going and looks great the last two weeks then Bill has a very good case for himself. He can show he can develop a QB and scrape together wins, and it shows he was being held down by Mac who he may or may not have been pushed by the owner to start and give a long leash.

I think the rub is if Zappe goes out and throws for 700 yards and 3-4 TDs, then there's a case that he could be the guy. If Zappe goes out and is pedestrian, and they are 1-1, then, to me anyway, it's clear he's a capable back up.

 

[Ring 6]

...and your argument for retaining him is because he was the GOAT for 19 years and overlook the last four?

No, he has been the GOAT for 23, inclusive of ALL of his years. Every organization has down periods. It took 19 for it to happen here, which is unprecedented.
It happened after:
Going all in to stay on top and go to 4 SBs in 5 years and win 3 of them
Having to pay for that while losing the QB
Maintaining a competitive roster held back by the qb that was almost unanimously considered the right pick, and turned out not to be

In addition to the fact that if you need to rebuild a team, the man who did the best job of it in the history of the sport is sitting in the chair already.
Who are you going to hire who is better?

No one wins always. Getting rid of the guy who wins more than anyone because of the inevitable downswing is simply people who have no control over what they wish they had control over lashing out at a target to pretend they have control.