BB watch

[Pape]

He could have the greatest scouting department in the NFL, but it's a moot point if he doesn't heed their advice.

I want someone else buying the groceries. If he wants to stay and have a GM that’s not one of his appointments, then I am ok with him staying for another year or two as HC. I think he’s lost his fastball, game day wise, but taking GM duties off his plate should lighten the load.

I agree we're better off with him coaching.
The question remains: will he agree to giving up the gm reins?

The issue, or quibble if you will, is that if you want to remove BB a the GM, replace him as the personnel director/GM, just shoe-horning a guy in there, you absolutely will create a contentious situation in the front office that existed circa the famous "grocery shopping" comment... You want to avoid that ... complimentary work making sure all people are on the same page is much better for the long term stability of the franchise... It boils down to this for me - If you want to replace BB as the GM, then you have to let BB go as the HC

If you want to find someone out side of the Belichick circle to consult on personnel matters (draft, free agency, etc) who can work with Belichick to fine tune the system, you keep him.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[Steve102]

The issue, or quibble if you will, is that if you want to remove BB a the GM, replace him as the personnel director/GM, just shoe-horning a guy in there, you absolutely will create a contentious situation in the fromt office that existed circa the famous "grocery shopping" comment... You want to avoid that ... complimentary work making sure all people are on the same page is much better for the long term stability of the franchise... It boils down to this for me - If you want to replace BB as the GM, then you have to let BB go as the HC

If you want to find someone out side of the Belichick circle to consult on personnel matters (draft, free agency, etc) who can work with Belichick to fine tune the system, you keep him.

You can't have it both ways.

I agree.

 

[jimnance]

The issue, or quibble if you will, is that if you want to remove BB a the GM, replace him as the personnel director/GM, just shoe-horning a guy in there, you absolutely will create a contentious situation in the fromt office that existed circa the famous "grocery shopping" comment... You want to avoid that ... complimentary work making sure all people are on the same page is much better for the long term stability of the franchise... It boils down to this for me - If you want to replace BB as the GM, then you have to let BB go as the HC

If you want to find someone out side of the Belichick circle to consult on personnel matters (draft, free agency, etc) who can work with Belichick to fine tune the system, you keep him.

You can't have it both ways.

I disagree

 

[RobertWeathers]

Those things are not the case here.

Sure they are.

 

[jimnance]

BB certainly makes mistakes in player acquisition, as all GMs do, and he has also been hamstrung with drafting late in each round, as well as having high picks blatantly stolen by a league intent on bringing the Pats back to the pack.

Some picks were head scratchers for me, like Jordan Richards and Duron Harmon, although in Harmon’s case he became an excellent player for the Pats, but were there a lot fans who ripped the pick admitting their mistake later?

BB has also gambled on greatness on occasion.

He missed with Ras-I Dowling, who actually looked really good in his debut vs the Dolphins, and Gronk, which was the grand slams of grand slams.

A player like Gronk is only available where he was because of concerns outside of his playing ability.

Gronk could have easily flopped, if his injury issues became too much to overcome, and our “experts” would have been screaming for BB’s head for drafting “Gronk IR”, instead of Sergio Kindle, who so many of our “experts” wanted.

BB may also be unmatched at finding gems among the UDFAs.

BB has not been the disaster as GM that so many of our self proclaimed experts would have you believe.

As I stated in another post, BB was a great, not a good,HC for many years. Basically from 2000-2017.
And hes had some recent success in drafting,hasnt all been garbage.
But drafting is only one area of a GM,albeit a big one.
The worst and only unforgivable decision he made as GM had nothing to do with drafting.
It was the mindboggingly insane move last year regarding our alleged OC's.
Way before 2022 began,the very 1st time this was announced I was in shock pissed off and dumbfounded by this.
Bill has always put the team first. But not in this case. He did a lot of damage to this franchise with that imbecility.
No,doesn't take away from all the success he brought us and he's still the GOAT to any reasonable person.
But that decision alone was bad enough to take away his gm keys

 

[The Gr8est]

As I stated in another post, BB was a great, not a good,HC for many years. Basically from 2000-2017.
And hes had some recent success in drafting,hasnt all been garbage.
But drafting is only one area of a GM,albeit a big one.
The worst and only unforgivable decision he made as GM had nothing to do with drafting.
It was the mindboggingly insane move last year regarding our alleged OC's.
Way before 2022 began,the very 1st time this was announced I was in shock pissed off and dumbfounded by this.
Bill has always put the team first. But not in this case. He did a lot of damage to this franchise with that imbecility.
No,doesn't take away from all the success he brought us and he's still the GOAT to any reasonable person.
But that decision alone was bad enough to take away his gm keys

I agree that that OC hire was really indefensible.

 

[Ring 6]

Sure they are.

Nah you are just playing victim fan who can’t handle that every organization has down times and you want someone punished. It’s a shame entitled fans react like that.

 

[Ross12]

The issue, or quibble if you will, is that if you want to remove BB a the GM, replace him as the personnel director/GM, just shoe-horning a guy in there, you absolutely will create a contentious situation in the front office that existed circa the famous "grocery shopping" comment... You want to avoid that ... complimentary work making sure all people are on the same page is much better for the long term stability of the franchise... It boils down to this for me - If you want to replace BB as the GM, then you have to let BB go as the HC

If you want to find someone out side of the Belichick circle to consult on personnel matters (draft, free agency, etc) who can work with Belichick to fine tune the system, you keep him.

You can't have it both ways.

I think there is a middle ground here, where a GM can work in tandem with Bill on scouting and selecting players while ultimately having the final say over Bill, though Bill's voice is still heard during the process. Bill also may realize that he will be retired soon and the franchise has to move on without him at that time, it may be beneficial to have a GM that he can work with and impart some things to for a couple of years first instead of needing to replace him as a GM and HC all at once. He does care about his legacy and he may wish to leave the place in good condition on his way out, as opposed to falling flat on its face.

 

[jboston19]

Bill is 72 and may realize he’s not able to be gm AND coach anymore, both by looking at the team’s performance and his own energy level.

 

[Grogan14]

I think there is a middle ground here, where a GM can work in tandem with Bill on scouting and selecting players while ultimately having the final say over Bill, though Bill's voice is still heard during the process. Bill also may realize that he will be retired soon and the franchise has to move on without him at that time, it may be beneficial to have a GM that he can work with and impart some things to for a couple of years first instead of needing to replace him as a GM and HC all at once. He does care about his legacy and he may wish to leave the place in good condition on his way out, as opposed to falling flat on its face.

I agree.
Kraft’s greatest single achievement that he can point to as his was hiring BB. I can not see him walking away from that unless BB retires. I see Kraft as working something out with Bill to give him expert help that he can respect with all personel matters
Way too risky for Kraft’s reputation to walk away from BB after walking away from Brady in 2019. I see a win win collaboration moving forward.

 

[Pape]

I think there is a middle ground here, where a GM can work in tandem with Bill on scouting and selecting players while ultimately having the final say over Bill, though Bill's voice is still heard during the process. Bill also may realize that he will be retired soon and the franchise has to move on without him at that time, it may be beneficial to have a GM that he can work with and impart some things to for a couple of years first instead of needing to replace him as a GM and HC all at once. He does care about his legacy and he may wish to leave the place in good condition on his way out, as opposed to falling flat on its face.

If you bring back a guy like Scott Pioli, i'd agree... BB would have to be involved in the process... what you cant to (in the replace BB as the GM, keep him as HC scenario) is just hire some random personnel guru, and install him as the GM...

 

[RobertWeathers]

Nah you are just playing victim fan who can’t handle that every organization has down times and you want someone punished. It’s a shame entitled fans react like that.

I live in reality.

You live in the past.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree.
Kraft’s greatest single achievement that he can point to as his was hiring BB. I can not see him walking away from that unless BB retires. I see Kraft as working something out with Bill to give him expert help that he can respect with all personel matters
Way too risky for Kraft’s reputation to walk away from BB after walking away from Brady in 2019. I see a win win collaboration moving forward.

Sure he can.

He has two straight losing seasons and three of the last four to point to as justification.

He gave Bill four years to rebuild and he didn't get it done.

If the team was trending upward and we didn't have various coaching and personnel miscues/bad drafts to point to then a case could be made to retain him

 

[PWRxWLF]

It's tough. This was a "barely scrape it out" win against a very inept team. It's not like the Pats are turning a corner.
My fear is with a few late wins, all the emotion will cause Kraft to keep BB and hope for another resurgence.

But, if we're going to face a total reboot in a year or two when BB does finally go, why not now? With a top 5 draft pick, and a lot of chaff to burn away - lets start fresh. Especially with a new QB. It would suck to get a new 1st round QB for 1 or 2 years of a BB-system, then fall into the same Mac-stakes of instability and turnover that leave us wallowing in mediocrity any longer.

This comment takes it all. It’s exactly that, why not now? You’re just delaying the inevitable. BB is not building a superbowl roster anytime soon and he sure as hell isn’t taking this one there. Honestly, I dont know why BB would want to stay. If he wants that record, he needs to go into win now mode. The right thing for this franchise right now is a young rebuild. Year in and year out the roster is one of the oldest in the league. It’s time for the next generation of young guys on all sides of the ball to put their stamp on the product.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I live in reality.

You live in the past.

very true
besides the dowand trend of the return in FA signings and draft picks which started years ago he refuses to accept that the Pats need a new GM.

 

[Grogan14]

Sure he can.

He has two straight losing seasons and three of the last four to point to as justification.

He gave Bill four years to rebuild and he didn't get it done.

If the team was trending upward and we didn't have various coaching and personnel miscues/bad drafts to point to then a case could be made to retain him

I do not support retaining BB.
Just believe Kraft’s ego is too big to let him go to another team.

 

[sb1]

Nah you are just playing victim fan who can’t handle that every organization has down times and you want someone punished. It’s a shame entitled fans react like that.

A downtime is the 2008 and 2009 Patriots

5 years of steady regression after our last playoff win is a trend not downtime.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I agree.
Kraft’s greatest single achievement that he can point to as his was hiring BB. I can not see him walking away from that unless BB retires. I see Kraft as working something out with Bill to give him expert help that he can respect with all personel matters
Way too risky for Kraft’s reputation to walk away from BB after walking away from Brady in 2019. I see a win win collaboration moving forward.

I do agree Bob is in a really bad position here and doesn't want to take the risk firing Bill. Regardless of how it happened, Bob's Franchise isn't valued for what it is currently and has 6 Lombardi's had he not hired Bill who drafted Tom Brady. Now that he's missing 3 out of the last 4 years of not making the playoffs, it would still be a bad look on Bob to simply fire him. In fact, John Harbaugh has lingered around the Ravens and had only one playoff appearance and one win in 5 seasons since they won the Super Bowl in 2012. It took him an additional 5 years to get another playoff win after the 2014 season and he has 2 playoff wins in 10 years. Ravens keep Harbaugh, but Bill gets fired?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I do not support retaining BB.
Just believe Kraft’s ego is too big to let him go to another team.

Lets hope his business -mind prevails.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

This comment takes it all. It’s exactly that, why not now? You’re just delaying the inevitable. BB is not building a superbowl roster anytime soon and he sure as hell isn’t taking this one there. Honestly, I dont know why BB would want to stay. If he wants that record, he needs to go into win now mode. The right thing for this franchise right now is a young rebuild. Year in and year out the roster is one of the oldest in the league. It’s time for the next generation of young guys on all sides of the ball to put their stamp on the product.

Its sort of like what steeler fans tell me chuck noll’s last years in Pittsburgh was like. He was an amazing coach too but they hung onto him way too long. I really don’t want that here, it’s looking too much like whatever years Bill stays we will be in football purgatory. And after this season we don’t even have the ‘it can get worse’ argument like we did from 2020-2022. It really cant get worse than this year. Sure maybe we could be THE worst team in the league but 4th worst isnt much of an upgrade.