PostGame Thread Week 12 PostGame Thread: NE Loses 10-7 to NYG

[upstater1]

The Patriots were in the Super Bowl in 1997 against the Packers and could have won that game. The Tuna jumped ship. They were competitive under Pete Carroll but underperformed. Belichick arrived in 2000 and went 5-11 before the dynasty began. The Patriots were essentially a competitor for the whole thing until the 2020 season when the wheels started falling off.

The 2023 team is a disaster, except for the silver lining of tons of cap space in 2024 and several rounds of the highest picks since Drew Bledsoe went #1 (who was the QB of the 1996 SB team.) This thing can turn around quickly, especially with the Bills sinking to a .500 team (they blew a 10-point halftime lead in Philadelphia this afternoon.)

There's an outstanding defensive core coming back in 2024, and with the right QB and a couple of starting offensive linemen, this team can be a quick turnaround. If I were Robert Kraft, I'd keep Belichick as coach and do a major overhaul of the front office.

I'd argue that losing Belichick in 1997 was a bigger loss than losing Parcells.

Remember, we went 6-10 with Parcells the year before. Then he added Belichick and the team's fortunes turned around quickly. They both went to the Jets and their fortunes turned around quickly. Even when Parcells had his ONLY good season in New England before hiring Belichick, he went to the playoffs and lost TO Belichick.

This is why I really wonder about Belichick critics who only started watching in the 2000s. If they didn't see all of this going on prior to that, or even the late 80s when the Giants held the K-Gun offense to barely anything (not to mention Montana), they missed out on some incredible coaching. You don't go from losing constantly to winning on the biggest stage overnight unless you have good coaching.

 

[upstater1]

Hunter Henry was a good pick up and one of the most sought after free agents at his position, but the rest of the guys were bargin bin shopping. I guess you can put Jonnu Smith in that category (not the good pick up part, but sought after). But both were considered above average TEs.

And both Henry and Smith were signed before Mac was even drafted. Same with Bourne and Agholor. None of them were signed to make Mac Jones a better QB. They were signed because the Pats had a lot of money and they were giving Cam Newton weapons.

The Pats didn't get Elliot of five years ago. He is the guy most of the league decided was washed up and a shell of his former self. He has outplayed expectations, but expectations weren't all that high.

Both Smith-Schuster and Reiff were damaged goods that no one really wanted that Belichick could get cheap. The Chiefs have no receivers and they didn't want JuJu back. The Bears have a crap o-line and didn't want Reiff back.

First, anyone who plays with Mac Jones is going to suck. If AJ Brown were here, he wouldn't have the numbers.

But even if I agreed with what you wrote above 100% (let's pretend I do) it doesn't change the fact that the Patriots tried to sign the best players at those positions on the market. Hell, Belichick was criticized for spending so much free agency money before these players even saw the field. Henry, Algholor, Jonnu, even Smith-Schuster, these weren't bargain bin guys.

About the only guy they didn't pay in these years was Christian Kirk, who broke the bank with a huge guaranteed contract. He plays with a much better QB. If the Patriots signed him, he wouldn't have half the stats he does now.

Before Jonnu got hurt, he had 400 yards in half a season. Almost 2x as many yards as he had in 2 entire seasons with the Patriots. He left Mac and immediately became a producer.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ehhh… they were competitive from 97-99. Unless you mean before BB was hired into the organization by Tuna and Kraft in 96

Zero Superbowls,

They had good teams, sure.

 

[RicoG]

If BB is back next year, your new QB will be JG. JG was always the true hier apparent to Brady. Plus LV will pay part of his salary. That's the kind of deal BB can't ignore.

 

[TheRainMaker]

If BB is back next year, your new QB will be JG. JG was always the true hier apparent to Brady. Plus LV will pay part of his salary. That's the kind of deal BB can't ignore.

 

[Ross12]

I am still kind of impressed with this defense. It’s still a pretty solid unit. They’ve lost a lot of guys but are still playing good football and held teams to 10 points in two straight weeks. Those are not games you should be losing.

 

[signbabybrady]

I am still kind of impressed with this defense. It’s still a pretty solid unit. They’ve lost a lot of guys but are still playing good football and held teams to 10 points in two straight weeks. Those are not games you should be losing.

I think I read last week it was the first time we lost holding an opponent to ten or less since the 90s then we do it again the following week. Head slap.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I am still kind of impressed with this defense. It’s still a pretty solid unit. They’ve lost a lot of guys but are still playing good football and held teams to 10 points in two straight weeks. Those are not games you should be losing.

I can see people dismissing today because the giants are awful but the colts are averaging a 24+ ppg so at least gotta give em props for last week. I feel like they have turned a corner after getting shellacked with injuries. Probably not great but they’ve held together as well as you can reasonably ask with the injuries and the situations our offense puts them in

 

[RicoG]

Don't worry, it doesn't seem like BB will be back. He may have lost his midas touch as a GM and the offensive success was cause of Brady, but he is still a great defensive mind. There will be a team that will offer up draft picks for BB.

But if he did come back, JG is a no brainer.
- BB likes to bring back retreads. BB can't get over his exs.
- JGs salary is at the very bottom of the bin for starting QBs. Bb likey likey.
- JG not wanted by LV. LV willing to pay his salary to get him off the books. BB drooling.
- JG is a younger better looking QB than Brady. BB getting a semi.
- JG was such a threat that Brady ran crying to Kraft to get him traded. BB will be out to show the world that his original succession planning was right all along. BB is now standing straight up.

 

[FCB02062]

lowest scoring offense in the NFL! Take a bow, Bill Belichick!

 

[Joey007]

I am still kind of impressed with this defense. It’s still a pretty solid unit. They’ve lost a lot of guys but are still playing good football and held teams to 10 points in two straight weeks. Those are not games you should be losing.

Been saying this until I’m blue in the face:

The defense does not need an entire rebuild next year. Just a couple resources. There’s a lot to like on that side of the ball.

I get annoyed when people say this is due for an entire roster overhaul. It is on OFFENSE.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

- JG was such a threat that Brady ran crying to Kraft to get him traded. BB will be out to show the world that his original succession planning was right all along. BB is now standing straight up.

Please tell me how Belichick was going to explain, after 28-3, that trading Brady and making Garoppolo the starter was in the best long-term interest of the team, especially given the salary cap ramifications.

The primary reason Garoppolo got traded was the extension that BB signed Brady to after SB49.

 

[RicoG]

Please tell me how Belichick was going to explain, after 28-3, that trading Brady and making Garoppolo the starter was in the best long-term interest of the team, especially given the salary cap ramifications.

The primary reason Garoppolo got traded was the extension that BB signed Brady to after SB49.

28-3 ruined BBs sucession plan for QB. If BB is back next year, he'll get a redo with JG.

 

[Ross12]

Been saying this until I’m blue in the face:

The defense does not need an entire rebuild next year. Just a couple resources. There’s a lot to like on that side of the ball.

I get annoyed when people say this is due for an entire roster overhaul. It is on OFFENSE.

Big agree from me. It is a good defense and the core of it will still be intact next year. Needs a sprinkling of help but nothing major.

On offense they really just need a WR1 and they are probably fine at that position. Pop can definitely be a good WR2 and honestly Juju is coming along, he might be fine as the 3rd guy. Plus Parker is still signed as a 4th guy, and Thornton and Boutte also, though seems like at least one of those last three probably would get moved. RB1 is good, bring back Zeke if possible. OL actually looks kind of OK? Not amazing but better. Lock up Onwenu as a free agent and figure out LT. It seems like Bill is giving McDermott a long look at LT to see if he can replace Brown which sounds bizarre but he hasn’t been a train wreck so far to my eye. Then they just need to either keep or replace Henry, Gesicki and Brown at TE (all free agents) and obviously replace Mac at QB. That sounds like a lot but mostly boils down to - minor help on D, keep Onwenu and Zeke, draft a QB, find a WR1, figure out LT and TE with other resources. They’ll have high picks and tons of cash to do it. It doesn’t sound insurmountable.

 

[ralmat55]

When Mac went outside the team last year to ***** about the Offence he went to BO'B. So even though they weren't together at Alabama it's natural to assume Mac favored O'Brien to replace Patricia. Unfortunately when the Pats brought in O'Brien to Foxboro Mac again went outside the team to ***** about the Offense to Dan Orlovsky. Because Mac's an unprofessional little **** who loves to blame everyone else.

Do you know it was O’Brien? Has anyone actually reported on that or is it just speculation you prefer to believe?

 

[Ross12]

 

[lancerman]

I am still kind of impressed with this defense. It’s still a pretty solid unit. They’ve lost a lot of guys but are still playing good football and held teams to 10 points in two straight weeks. Those are not games you should be losing.

They held a Giants and Colts team that lost their starting QB's to 10 points. The Giants also happen to be a bottom 3 team in the league and have been dreadful. That's not worth getting impressed over. The Jets, Raiders, Seahawks and Cowboys all held the Giants to 10 or less.

 

[Brandon_Cox]

I hope your right

Your right what?

 

[Peachhead]

Do you know it was O’Brien? Has anyone actually reported on that or is it just speculation you prefer to believe?

It was reported by a mainstream sports journalist. Unfortunately, I don't remember the exact article or reporter or I would cite it. At the time it was cited as the biggest reason there was a rift between BB & Mac.

On edit: I found an article that sort of mentions it. At least one of the sources was Chris Simms* and it doesn't mention O'Brien by name, but mentions "certain coaches at Alabama" (where O'Brien was the OC at the time). I swear I read something more definitive than that though, from a better source. But c'mon, if Mac was going to call a coach about the Offense It's pretty logical it would be an OC.

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/new-england-patriots-mac-jones-bill-belichick-tension-trade-obrien-alabama-rumors-call

*And before you say it, I agree calling Chris Simms a "mainstream journalist" is a stretch

 

[vicspats]

I have come to detest Gronk. Not sure exactly why, but it’s there.

The day he got drafted I thought he was a clown. He definitely grew on me, best tight end ever. I agree thou…8 year old antics.