LoMo poll

[Deus Irae]

The bottom line on this thread is that the anti-Maroney people have no numbers to go by other than volume numbers (which don't apply in a comparison of systems when you've got a pass first system like the Patriots, and those defending Maroney do have the numbers. One side is using facts, the other is simply shouting opinions. It's really that simple.

Oh, I forgot the data I wanted to put in:

In 2004, Manning's record season, the running backs had a total of 10 touchdowns rushing. Through 12 games this season, New England's running backs have a total of 10 rushing touchdowns. In other words, in that 2004 team that people look at to cite to James, the running backs were putting it into the endzone even less often than this year's Patriots.

 

[danny88]

The bottom line on this thread is that the anti-Maroney people have no numbers to go by other than volume numbers (which don't apply in a comparison of systems when you've got a pass first system like the Patriots, and those defending Maroney do have the numbers. One side is using facts, the other is simply shouting opinions. It's really that simple.

So then you must admit Manning is better then Brady right? Just look at the stats! The people who think Brady is better are just shouting opinions with no facts!

( I dont think that)

 

[danny88]

I voted No, not because of Maroney, I like him but in general RBs (outside very elite players) are highly inter-changable, the same level of production could have been obtained from a RB drafted in a later round or from a second tier veteran. Even worse was the 2:1 trade to get Jackson, WRs are very risky picks giving up a 2nd and a 3rd was poor risk management. In any of those spots my preference would have been a CB or a LB.

In any case what is done is done, I am sure there are some stocks we would like to go back and buy. He is healthy and starting to get productive, we will need him down the stretch.

Yep. Kenton Keith is every bit as good as Maroney by the stats. Didnt they get that guy from the CFL?

 

[National Sports Advisors]

The bottom line on this thread is that the anti-Maroney people have no numbers to go by other than volume numbers (which don't apply in a comparison of systems when you've got a pass first system like the Patriots, and those defending Maroney do have the numbers. One side is using facts, the other is simply shouting opinions. It's really that simple.

What numbers to the Maroney people have???? ONE!! His YPC stat, which oh by the way Kevin Faulk has a 4.4. Therefore, he does not even have the best YPC stat on the team. What about other stats? Maroney has 2 measly TD's, a long gain of 19 yards, 4 receptions, and 735 yards. That is 1st Rd material? Puhleaze. Why is it ok for Maroney people to say they "believe" that Maroney doesn't get the ball more because we have a great passing attack, but it is not ok for the Anti-Maroney crowd to "believe" that he would be getting the ball more if he was a BETTER player. Again, it is my belief that Addai would most definitely be getting the ball inside the red zone, would be getting more passes thrown his way, and would be getting more overall carries. Why? Because he is a STUD. The same applies to other STUDS like LT, LJ, McGahee, Peterson, and others who have the ability to run TOUGH and break LONG RUNS, which Maroney does not do.

 

[Deus Irae]

So then you must admit Manning is better then Brady right? Just look at the stats! The people who think Brady is better are just shouting opinions with no facts!

( I dont think that)

You keep making this argument, but it's not true. CHFF has shredded this argument. Feel free to go over there for enlightenment.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Here you go:

Somebody asked me, what do you expect of the #21 pick in the NFL draft?
And I respond how about a RB like McGahee (#23) or Addai (#30).
Is that so much to ask? When you watch those guys go against the Patriots head to head, you begin to realize, those teams have got runningbacks that can carry their teams on their shoulders and that Maroney has a LONG way to go before he can be mentioned in the same breath as those guys.

McGahee #23 overall
Year 1 1128 yards
Year 2 1247 yards

2375 yards in 32 games
Normalized for 23 games 1707 yards

Addai #30 overall
Year 1 1081 yards
Year 2 943 yards (through 11 games)

2024 in 27 games
Normalized for 23 games 1724 yards

Maroney #21 overall
Year 1 745 yards (14 games)
Year 2 511 yards (through 9 games)

23 game total 1256 yards

So even after you normalize the other players stats to account for the games Maroney has missed due to him being injury prone, they still significantly outproduce Maroney in the same span of games. I'll take Addai or McGahee, who were both taken later, over Maroney any time.

Lets try it again for at leat the 8th time more then likely more than that. What are you expections of a 21st pick second year player who as played 21 games? I have been waiting for an answer

 

[danny88]

What numbers to the Maroney people have???? ONE!! His YPC stat, which oh by the way Kevin Faulk has a 4.4. Therefore, he does not even have the best YPC stat on the team. What about other stats? Maroney has 2 measly TD's, a long gain of 19 yards, 4 receptions, and 735 yards. That is 1st Rd material? Puhleaze. Why is it ok for Maroney people to say they "believe" that Maroney doesn't get the ball more because we have a great passing attack, but it is not ok for the Anti-Maroney crowd to "believe" that he would be getting the ball more if he was a BETTER player. Again, it is my belief that Addai would most definitely be getting the ball inside the red zone, would be getting more passes thrown his way, and would be getting more overall carries. Why? Because he is a STUD. The same applies to other STUDS like LT, LJ, McGahee, Peterson, and others who have the ability to run TOUGH and break LONG RUNS, which Maroney does not do.

True. Just ask Kenton Keith. Just as good as Maroney.

 

[danny88]

You keep making this argument, but it's not true. CHFF has shredded this argument. Feel free to go over there for enlightenment.

Oh really? Tell me why / how.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

BTW, the same people who believe that Maroney's YPC stat would translate to 1200 plus yards if he got 300 carries are the same people who believe the part-time outfielder's of the world would put up 50 HR's just because they hit 15 HR's in limited action. It gets to the point of diminishing returns, my friends. Does ANYONE think Kevin Faulk would get 1200 plus yards if he got 300 carries just because he has a 4.4 YPC??????? Hell no!! He's not tough enough to withstand the pounding nor is he good enough to overcome the increased scrutiny and design by oppossing defenses to stop him. The same applies with Maroney.

 

[danny88]

I just want to know how the colts picked up Kenton Keith for nothing and we spent our first rounder on a guy putting up the same numbers.

Kenton Keith is just as good as our first round stud?


Hmmmm?

 

[National Sports Advisors]

And, oh btw, this poll is startling when you consider 25% of patriot fans would NOT take the 1st Rd running back on a 12-0 team if they could do it all over again. That, my friends, says it all right there. In fact, the poll says that 75% of Pats fans either would NOT take him or are not SOLD ON HIM after 12 games in year #2. Our team is 12-0 and that many people question the running back??? That's all you need to know about this kid. He flat out sucks. My opinion and I am entitled to it!

 

[Deus Irae]

Here you go:

Somebody asked me, what do you expect of the #21 pick in the NFL draft?
And I respond how about a RB like McGahee (#23) or Addai (#30).
Is that so much to ask? When you watch those guys go against the Patriots head to head, you begin to realize, those teams have got runningbacks that can carry their teams on their shoulders and that Maroney has a LONG way to go before he can be mentioned in the same breath as those guys.

McGahee #23 overall
Year 1 1128 yards
Year 2 1247 yards

2375 yards in 32 games
Normalized for 23 games 1707 yards

Addai #30 overall
Year 1 1081 yards
Year 2 943 yards (through 11 games)

2024 in 27 games
Normalized for 23 games 1724 yards

Maroney #21 overall
Year 1 745 yards (14 games)
Year 2 511 yards (through 9 games)

23 game total 1256 yards

So even after you normalize the other players stats to account for the games Maroney has missed due to him being injury prone, they still significantly outproduce Maroney in the same span of games. I'll take Addai or McGahee, who were both taken later, over Maroney any time.

Are you truly this incapable of grasping the notion of style differences? You must be, because you keep conveniently leaving out the "attempts" part of the equation as if it doesn't exist. Well, I'm sorry to have to inform you that it does. Just taking McGahee for an example, since he was first on your list:

2004
16 games, 284 attempts, 1128 yards, 4.0 ypc, 13 td

2005
16 games, 325 attempts, 1247 yards, 3.8 ypc, 5 td

2006
14 games, 259 attempts, 990 yards, 3.8 ypc, 6 td

2007
12 games, 243 attempts, 1048 yards, 4.3 ypc, 7 td


In other words, this is the first season where his per play run production has met Maroney's 4.3 ypc. You keep mistaking quantity for quality. The reason that Jim Brown is considered the best running back is not because he has the most rushing yards in NFL history, since he doesn't have that record.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

I just want to know how the colts picked up Kenton Keith for nothing and we spent our first rounder on a guy putting up the same numbers.

Kenton Keith is just as good as our first round stud?


Hmmmm?

It's the system. The same reason why Denver always has a good running game. With Tom Brady at the helm and Dante Scharnecchia coaching the line, we always will have a decent running game. The problem is we wasted a 1st rd pick on a guy that is giving us no more production than a 4th rounder would.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

Are you truly this incapable of grasping the notion of style differences? You must be, because you keep conveniently leaving out the "attempts" part of the equation as if it doesn't exist. Well, I'm sorry to have to inform you that it does. Just taking McGahee for an example, since he was first on your list:

2004
16 games, 284 attempts, 1128 yards, 4.0 ypc, 13 td

2005
16 games, 325 attempts, 1247 yards, 3.8 ypc, 5 td

2006
14 games, 259 attempts, 990 yards, 3.8 ypc, 6 td

2007
12 games, 243 attempts, 1048 yards, 4.3 ypc, 7 td


In other words, this is the first season where his per play run production has met Maroney's 4.3 ypc. You keep mistaking quantity for quality. The reason that Jim Brown is considered the best running back is not because he has the most rushing yards in NFL history, since he doesn't have that record.

Dude, Jim Brown had a YPC on way more carries!!! Kevin Faulk has a 4.4. Should we be giving him the rock 300 times a year???????????????? Puhleaze.

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh really? Tell me why / how.

You don't know how to go to CHFF and look up items? Hey, if you can't figure that out, you've got a lot more problems than just the inability to grasp the game of football.

 

[danny88]

You don't know how to go to CHFF and look up items? Hey, if you can't figure that out, you've got a lot more problems than just the inability to grasp the game of football.

You told me my argument that BY THE STATS Manning is better then Brady was not true. Now tell me why it is not. Im not going to research what you claim.

I dont think Manning is better then Brady , but the stats say so. SO it must be the proof needed right?

Secondly by the stats Kenton Keith is just as good as out stud first round draft choice.


Do you agree?

 

[Deus Irae]

I just want to know how the colts picked up Kenton Keith for nothing and we spent our first rounder on a guy putting up the same numbers.

Kenton Keith is just as good as our first round stud?


Hmmmm?

And here we go again, back to the same tired and refuted arguments. I'm getting tired of dealing with this willful ignorance.

James
Mungro
Rhodes

All of the above put up significantly better numbers in the Colts system than they did after moving to new teams. The numbers Kenton Keith puts up may be an indictment of the "Addai is great" argument, but they are not an indictment of Maroney.

Or to put it another way.... Addai, one of the players you're championing, is being outplayed by a CFL free agent on his own team.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

When is somebody going to answer WHY it is ok to assume Maroney would maintain his 4.3 YPC if he got the ball 18-20 times a game and Kevin Faulk would not???? Somebody tell me why this is? Is it because Maroney is bigger, tougher, what? Maroney is NOT a tough runner so why the hell are we to believe he is better than McGahee who only has a 3.8 on way more carries, but also is the #1 option on the entire offense? Answer me that Maroney apologists. I want to know.

 

[danny88]

It's the system. The same reason why Denver always has a good running game. With Tom Brady at the helm and Dante Scharnecchia coaching the line, we always will have a decent running game. The problem is we wasted a 1st rd pick on a guy that is giving us no more production than a 4th rounder would.

Exactly. Maroney is a avg NFL back at best.

 

[Deus Irae]

You told me my argument that BY THE STATS Manning is better then Brady was not true. Now tell me why it is not. Im not going to research what you claim.

I dont think Manning is better then Brady , but the stats say so. SO it must be the proof needed right?

Secondly by the stats Kenton Keith is just as good as out stud first round draft choice.


Do you agree?

No, the stats do not show this. As I noted, CHFF has dealt with this. Feel free to go look there.