If this is Bill’s last season as HC, who do you want as a replacement?

[upstater1]

You are missing the point here. Bill said we were in cap hell. Literally we mortgaged the future in 2018/2019. If that was the case, then how on earth did we franchise Thuney, extend McCourty, kick Gilmore more money, sign Cam, etc? There was absolutely nothing that changed about our business process from 2019 to 2020. Bill was running the team the same he had always been except for lying to all of us when the 2020 season went south, saying he had to go ALL in to win 6 SBs which was and still is a LIE. All he and Kraft ever did for 20 years was talk about cap economics and how the Patriots do business different from everyone else ...

No, you are missing the point. Being in cap hell is a matter of taking on dead money. It doesn't mean you strip your team of all remaining assets. You guys can imagine that teams were salivating for the addition of 34 year old Devin McCourty, but Bill wanted to retain a long time Patriot. Sign Cam? Cam made $1m. We needed a QB. What are we talking about here?

There is no lie. It's only people who can't read and understand that we piled all our dead cap money into the season.

We took $55m in old money off the table that year. More 1/4 of the entire cap. When we went to sign a QB, we signed Newton for $1m, and that put us up to the cap!

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

We took $55m in old money off the table that year. More 1/4 of the entire cap. When we went to sign a QB, we signed Newton for $1m, and that put us up to the cap!

They had over $30M in cap space at the beginning of 2020 FA. They didn’t even attempt to sign a QB besides the limp **** effort for Brady. They had $1M left to sign a scrap heap part in Newton. Thanks for making the point that the team comically mismanaged the roster again.

 

[amfootball]

No, you are missing the point. Being in cap hell is a matter of taking on dead money. It doesn't mean you strip your team of all remaining assets. You guys can imagine that teams were salivating for the addition of 34 year old Devin McCourty, but Bill wanted to retain a long time Patriot. Sign Cam? Cam made $1m. We needed a QB. What are we talking about here?

There is no lie. It's only people who can't read and understand that we piled all our dead cap money into the season.

We took $55m in old money off the table that year. More 1/4 of the entire cap. When we went to sign a QB, we signed Newton for $1m, and that put us up to the cap!

The $55 mil did not to be taken off the table all in one season. We had plenty of space in 2021. It could have been managed in a myriad of ways and had been for the last 20 years because the Pats "do things differently.". Brady was only making $16 mil in 2019 before the fake 2 year deal Bill had him sign. Who was on the roster either in 2018/2019 that would was making huge money or we gave up draft capital to acquire? I mean Bill was going to trade Gronk prior to 2018. Edelman was making peanuts. He did not bother to resign Amendola. Literally the only move Bill made was trading a #2 for Sanu ...

 

[203Pat]

No, you are missing the point. Being in cap hell is a matter of taking on dead money. It doesn't mean you strip your team of all remaining assets. You guys can imagine that teams were salivating for the addition of 34 year old Devin McCourty, but Bill wanted to retain a long time Patriot. Sign Cam? Cam made $1m. We needed a QB. What are we talking about here?

There is no lie. It's only people who can't read and understand that we piled all our dead cap money into the season.

We took $55m in old money off the table that year. More 1/4 of the entire cap. When we went to sign a QB, we signed Newton for $1m, and that put us up to the cap!

As of July of 2020 Miguel had them with 76 players and $24 million in cap space. In what world were they in "cap hell"?

 

[upstater1]

They had over $30M in cap space at the beginning of 2020 FA. They didn’t even attempt to sign a QB besides the limp **** effort for Brady. They had $1M left to sign a scrap heap part in Newton. Thanks for making the point that the team comically mismanaged the roster again.

What part of we're taking the hit this season did you not understand?

Yes, we could've rolled all the debts of the past forward. You can do that forever in the NFL. And permanently operate with 10% of your cap in dead money. But they chose to take the hit that year.

You wanted them to sign a better QB than Newton (why? and for how much? and who?) to win games?

This is a discussion about tanking.

 

[amfootball]

You wanted them to sign a better QB than Newton (why? and for how much? and who?) to win games?

Brady.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Also they could have automatically rolled $6.25M of Brady’s contact into 2021 by extending him. They ended up taking a total $13.5M hit. The other 6.25M would have been easy to restructure into 2021 but I guess Jonnu Smith was available instead.

 

[upstater1]

Brady.

So you wanted a replay of 2019 but much worse.

This is the definition of a spoiled fan base. Every team in the NFL cycles.

The object is to win the Super Bowl.

So many fans are satisfied with getting beat by the Titans in the wild card round. That should not be the object.

When the Bills made the playoffs for the first time in 15 years, the whole town celebrated like they won the Super Bowl. Their record was 8-8.

You can keep your AFCE flags! Don't need them!

 

[203Pat]

So you wanted a replay of 2019 but much worse.

Lol I would sign up for 12-4 right now.

 

[amfootball]

So you wanted a replay of 2019 but much worse.

This is the definition of a spoiled fan base. Every team in the NFL cycles.

The object is to win the Super Bowl.

So many fans are satisfied with getting beat by the Titans in the wild card round. That should not be the object.

When the Bills made the playoffs for the first time in 15 years, the whole town celebrated like they won the Super Bowl. Their record was 8-8.

You can keep your AFCE flags! Don't need them!

I would have preferred Brady finish his career here regardless if it meant more SB wins or not. And now with the benefit of hindsight, Bill/Kraft absolutely should have kept Brady. What a dumpster fire we have become since.

 

[vicspats]

I don't want anyone that's ever coached with Bill Belichick. I don't want his kids, his friends, his coaching buddies, his associates, no one. Start new. Sean McVay sounds good to me. You have to hire someone with head coach experience.

I wonder how the Krafts feel about that. I’ve always been partial to “ the devil you know is always better than the devil you don’t know”…I’m sure to upstart a whole organization, especially with the pressure of winning a championship within 4 years of an over haul, or at least being competitive within 2-3 years, must be daunting

 

[upstater1]

I would have preferred Brady finish his career here regardless if it meant more SB wins or not. And now with the benefit of hindsight, Bill/Kraft absolutely should have kept Brady. What a dumpster fire we have become since.

This is a totally fine point for me. I mean, out of nostalgia sakes, keep Brady. We don't get anywhere with it, and we don't have a shot at a QB in the top half of the draft, but since that QB turned out to e horrible and worthless, we should've kept Brady. Great in hindsight.

I will also point out that the vast majority of this board stated plainly it was time to move on from Brady after 2019.

And then there's the curious event of what happened PRIOR to the 2019 season. Someone showed up on the Phins owner's boat in the summer of 2019 with the intent of convincing the Phins coach to tank the season.

 

[203Pat]

This is a totally fine point for me. I mean, out of nostalgia sakes, keep Brady. We don't get anywhere with it, and we don't have a shot at a QB in the top half of the draft, but since that QB turned out to e horrible and worthless, we should've kept Brady. Great in hindsight.

I will also point out that the vast majority of this board stated plainly it was time to move on from Brady after 2019.

And then there's the curious event of what happened PRIOR to the 2019 season. Someone showed up on the Phins owner's boat in the summer of 2019 with the intent of convincing the Phins coach to tank the season.

I don't remember a ton of people on here wanting to move on until after the move was made. Then of course the Bill worshippers claimed it was the right move and even the most ardent homers have been pummeled into submission on that one.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

So you wanted a replay of 2019 but much worse.

This is the definition of a spoiled fan base. Every team in the NFL cycles.

The object is to win the Super Bowl.

So many fans are satisfied with getting beat by the Titans in the wild card round. That should not be the object.

When the Bills made the playoffs for the first time in 15 years, the whole town celebrated like they won the Super Bowl. Their record was 8-8.

You can keep your AFCE flags! Don't need them!

How can you reconcile these two points:

1. On almost every single move for the last 3+ years you have defended Bill, defended the organization, claimed it was necessary because they had no other option, opined they it is a good move given the circumstances, blamed everyone except Bill, accused the naysayers as being “spoiled” “impatient” etc.

2. The embarrassing Patriots team as it stands right now, which is not only putrid but had no noteworthy future assets relative to other teams.

 

[upstater1]

How can you reconcile these two points:

1. On almost every single move for the last 3+ years you have defended Bill, defended the organization, claimed it was necessary because they had no other option, opined they it is a good move given the circumstances, blamed everyone except Bill, accused the naysayers as being “spoiled” “impatient” etc.

2. The embarrassing Patriots team as it stands right now, which is not only putrid but had no noteworthy future assets relative to other teams.

On the face of it, this is wrong. I've repeatedly said things like Blame Bill for...

Most of my posts show what I think is fair. Drafting Tyquan, not signing Thuney, signing Mason, drafting Harry.

Indeed, I would hold him accountable for drafitng a scrub like Mac Jones too, but then I'm honest with myself in saying, I would've recommended the same thing

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

On the face of it, this is wrong. I've repeatedly said things like Blame Bill for...

Most of my posts show what I think is fair. Drafting Tyquan, not signing Thuney, signing Mason, drafting Harry.

Indeed, I would hold him accountable for drafitng a scrub like Mac Jones too, but then I'm honest with myself in saying, I would've recommended the same thing

Every team makes mistakes. No GM bats 1.000. But most GMs make enough good movies to offset the bad ones.

Look at this team. And remember, Bill is responsible for all of it.

This isn’t nitpicking over a few hindsight mistakes Bill has made. This isn’t blaming him for unforeseeable, bad luck outcomes. This is calling him out on years of horrible decisions which were criticized as they were happening, not in hindsight.

This team is ****. But this isn’t a surprise to anyone who has been noticing the personnel decisions have been **** for a long time. It isn’t because they don’t have money, or they’re unlucky, or any other reason than Bill Belichick’s extreme contrarian arrogance, which is now manifesting as outright foolishness.

 

[upstater1]

Every team makes mistakes. No GM bats 1.000. But most GMs make enough good movies to offset the bad ones.

Look at this team. And remember, Bill is responsible for all of it.

This isn’t nitpicking over a few hindsight mistakes Bill has made. This isn’t blaming him for unforeseeable, bad luck outcomes. This is calling him out on years of horrible decisions which were criticized as they were happening, not in hindsight.

This team is ****. But this isn’t a surprise to anyone who has been noticing the personnel decisions have been **** for a long time. It isn’t because they don’t have money, or they’re unlucky, or any other reason than Bill Belichick’s extreme contrarian arrogance, which is now manifesting as outright foolishness.

Disagree, and I didn't say we're bad because we don't have money. I mentioned the situation in one year alone. 2020. This team is in the middle of a rebuild with a horrible choice at QB, at a position that largely determines the direction of your team. A team can be 5-13 (Drew Bledsoe's Patriots) and immediately turn around with a QB who has some guts and headiness (Brady when Brady was not yet a top QB in the league), and it's a night and day difference.

Granted, we emphasized defense in the 1st part of the draft last year (I would have taken Gonzalez and Keion White as well) but then we took a bunch of offensive players including 3 OL and 2 WR).

All thee things make perfect sense.

I just think you guys underestimate how bad our QB is. You may think he's just not good, but he is horrifically bad. When Mike Reiss gives this guy a B for that pathetic performance on Sunday, I know that people aren't seeing it.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Also they could have automatically rolled $6.25M of Brady’s contact into 2021 by extending him. They ended up taking a total $13.5M hit. The other 6.25M would have been easy to restructure into 2021 but I guess Jonnu Smith was available instead.

Another example of poor cap management by Bill. I remember posters on here blaming Brady for not taking what the Pats were offering so they wouldn’t take the hit. Lol.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Disagree, and I didn't say we're bad because we don't have money. I mentioned the situation in one year alone. 2020. This team is in the middle of a rebuild with a horrible choice at QB, at a position that largely determines the direction of your team. A team can be 5-13 (Drew Bledsoe's Patriots) and immediately turn around with a QB who has some guts and headiness (Brady when Brady was not yet a top QB in the league), and it's a night and day difference.

Granted, we emphasized defense in the 1st part of the draft last year (I would have taken Gonzalez and Keion White as well) but then we took a bunch of offensive players including 3 OL and 2 WR).

All thee things make perfect sense.

I just think you guys underestimate how bad our QB is. You may think he's just not good, but he is horrifically bad. When Mike Reiss gives this guy a B for that pathetic performance on Sunday, I know that people aren't seeing it.

Let’s put it this way (re: Mac): we’re a Patrick Mahomes away from being .500. There are probably 4-5 teams in the NFL in the same situation. Mac is the reason we’ll win 3-4 games, an average QB gets us 5-6 wins, a good QB 7-8 wins, a guy like Mahomes 9-10 max.

 

[upstater1]

Let’s put it this way (re: Mac): we’re a Patrick Mahomes away from being .500. There are probably 4-5 teams in the NFL in the same situation. Mac is the reason we’ll win 3-4 games, an average QB gets us 5-6 wins, a good QB 7-8 wins, a guy like Mahomes 9-10 max.

An average QB without the injuries gets us 8-9 wins. Which is what I predicted.