We Are TWO Players Away - Overpay In Trades For QB and WR.

[203Pat]

Name the players.

Because 2 OTs got huge contracts in FA this year, $90m guaranteed, and they are both abysmally awful. That's not what we want.

Tee Higgins, fine, pay him $20m.

You're going to trade for one? Who?

AJ Brown and Tyreek Hill weren't coming here.

Also, I am NOT in favor of tanking. I am in favor of getting rid of Mac Jones after the season. Perhaps this season if Purdy gets hurt and SF wants to give us a 3rd for him.

You're a broken record with this. If we were willing to give up the draft picks and pay them they would be here.

 

[upstater1]

Keep living the dream.

You need to watch games other than the Pats.

Can you name another team with a better CB and safety situation?

I mean, what in the world are you looking for? It's absurd and bizarre that you wrote that.

 

[upstater1]

You're a broken record with this. If we were willing to give up the draft picks and pay them they would be here.

Who in the world are you talking about?

You're referring to AJ and Tyreek?

Why would they come here when they wanted to be in Miami and Philadelphia AND they got $25m a year, most of it guaranteed. Give me one good reason. Are you really advocating we pay them $30m to beat out Philadelphia? Seriously?

You're a broken record with that drivel.

 

[203Pat]

Can someone give me an example of a QB who was "hurt" by bad coaching, but who was resurrected elsewhere and became good?

Unless people are saying QBs are permanently ruined by bad coaching, I'd say it's more likely wqe're just flat out speaking about bad QBs who were always going to be bad regardless.

Do I need to go back to Jim Plunkett to find an example?

In 99% of the examples we see with a bad coaching/young QB mix, the QB never goes on to play well anywhere, which means he was either ruined (which is a curious notion) or else was always bad regardless.

Drew Brees, Alex Smith, Rich Gannon, Steve Young, Michael Vick, and Tom Brady.

 

[203Pat]

Who in the world are you talking about?

You're referring to AJ and Tyreek?

Why would they come here when they wanted to be in Miami and Philadelphia AND they got $25m a year, most of it guaranteed. Give me one good reason. Are you really advocating we pay them $30m to beat out Philadelphia? Seriously?

You're a broken record with that drivel.

Because if we offered the same compensation trade wise and similar contracts they would be here. Bill won't do that though. That is the issue.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Bill ****ed around and found out

 

[Brotherblues]

Can someone give me an example of a QB who was "hurt" by bad coaching, but who was resurrected elsewhere and became good?

Unless people are saying QBs are permanently ruined by bad coaching, I'd say it's more likely wqe're just flat out speaking about bad QBs who were always going to be bad regardless.

Do I need to go back to Jim Plunkett to find an example?

In 99% of the examples we see with a bad coaching/young QB mix, the QB never goes on to play well anywhere, which means he was either ruined (which is a curious notion) or else was always bad regardless.

Goff

 

[Love The Drake]

I would offer a first plus for Goff

 

[Boomer B]

2 players away? 2 !!!

 

[The Gr8est]

No one is going to give away a QB to suddenly make it all better. Why would they? What level of overpayment would the buying team have to pay in order to ply even a mid-level QB away from a team. What does that do to cap management?

At best, you're going to get an underperformer, which they have now, so far anyway. At worst, you're going to overpay for damaged goods or a locker room cancer, one that the selling team is happy to be rid of.

Guys, there's no quick quick fix. It takes years to build a team to win. The foundation for the 2001 team was already here with Vinateri, Bruschi, Law, McGinest and Milloy, and they all lost the super bowl in 1996. It took that 2001 FA class of Terrell Buckley, Mike Compton, Bryan Cox, Marc Edwards, Larry Izzo, David Patten, Roman Phifer, Anthony Pleasant, Antowain Smith, and Mike Vrabel to come in and bring new blood to the team. Oh, and they found a QB on the bench, too, plus drafted Richard Seymour and Matt Light.

You wanna know how to build a team? There's your roadmap, right there. That part of the game has not changed. Bring in 2-3 top tier OL, a bonafide WR that stresses defenses, a top QB that doesn't give the ball away, a true 3rd down back, all while keeping this defensive core together and get it all under the cap. That's how many players they are away. Never mind the top two defenders just went down with maybe season ending injuries. No big deal, next man up.

There are NO shortcuts.

It is what it is.

Trading assets now to try and fix the problems is a fool’s errand.

I hope we can develop some players now who will help later.

Like Douglas and Boutte.

 

[203Pat]

There are NO shortcuts.

It is what it is.

Trading assets now to try and fix the problems is a fool’s errand.

I hope we can develop some players now who will help later.

Like Douglas and Boutte.

Outside of the draft picks there really aren't any assets anyways.

 

[Boomer B]

This isn’t a 2 player turnaround. This is multiple years of hitting on draft picks, particularly on O.

- likely a QB
- a number 1 WR, and possibly a number 2
- starting tackles and overall o-line depth
- possibly a starting RB

The whole damn O needs a rehaul. Number 1 WRs are hard to get, and to get one in FA we are looking at multiple number 1’s. Good starting QBs don’t come available in FA, so we’ll have to use another 1st rounder. We are a ways off.

 

[Thelonious]

He rebuilt this team with no holdovers other than Andrews and we've stockpiled a lot of talent. We failed to draft the QB we needed, and the GM has failed at bringing in a top WR, but these are things that can happen at those 2 positions.

I guess I just find it hard to embrace any argument which begins "He rebuilt this team." He has tried, certainly, but it sure doesn't look rebuilt to me, nor have I seen an acceptable degree of progress in that direction. Oh well, by the time we discover who is right, we will both have forgotten about this conversation.

 

[Fatmancryin]

Because if we offered the same compensation trade wise and similar contracts they would be here. Bill won't do that though. That is the issue.

They have never paid the premium price at any position. BB has always had a player position value and stuck to it. They also didn’t have the luxury of picking in the top 10-20 for what 20 years. What we are seeing is the cost of winning for years. We see teams like Miami, San Fran, and Cinci and daydream what could have been but those teams have important players still on rookie contracts and when it’s time to pay up another position is going to take a hit.

Patriots haven’t paid a player their worth since maybe Gilmore. Brady was underpaid, Gronk was underpaid, Edelman was underpaid. This isn’t new.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Much more than 2 players away with the injuries, defense is going to fall off a cliff against good quarterbacks without it's best 2 players.

offensive line is one of the worst in the league.

I thought that until I watched the Giants game last night, so we might be second worst.

 

[Thelonious]

Can someone give me an example of a QB who was "hurt" by bad coaching, but who was resurrected elsewhere and became good?

Unless people are saying QBs are permanently ruined by bad coaching, I'd say it's more likely wqe're just flat out speaking about bad QBs who were always going to be bad regardless.

Do I need to go back to Jim Plunkett to find an example?

In 99% of the examples we see with a bad coaching/young QB mix, the QB never goes on to play well anywhere, which means he was either ruined (which is a curious notion) or else was always bad regardless.

That's a sound argument. I can't think of the sort on instance you solicit. I guess I can imagine Mac rallying to become a really good backup, but it's a struggle to imagine him as the starter on a team which is consistently in contention for the Championship. I still think we should take the rest of the season to make our decision on him, but after last Sunday's debacle, it really is hard to see him as a player worthy of The Big Contract. I wish I were more optimistic about him, but I no longer am.

 

[Fatmancryin]

I guess I just find it hard to embrace any argument which begins "He rebuilt this team." He has tried, certainly, but it sure doesn't look rebuilt to me, nor have I seen an acceptable degree of progress in that direction. Oh well, by the time we discover who is right, we will both have forgotten about this conversation.

I agree with this. Mac was the right pick in 2021 and it hasn’t worked out. The Defense was/is on the right track. BB has definitely left the offense on an island somewhere.

 

[FCB02062]

Bill ****ed around and found out

Bill just ****ed up the team for the next decade, that's all....
if he got his head out his ass and didn't obsess about ****ing special teams and middling front 7 guys (other than Judon) and put resources into actual playmakers on offense - not jags like juju Sanu, hunter Henry, Bourne, Jonnu Smith, Ezekiel Elliott, Parker, Agholor...need I go on?
I just noticed something today - do people here know that Belichick is such a ****ty coach without Brady that in 92, Bill Belichick brought his Cleveland Browns team into Foxboro to play the 0-7 Pats, a team that would finish 2-14 and consistently ranked in the top 10 worst NFL teams of all time, and won by TWO POINTS over one of the worst teams in NFL history.
Bill the Bozos Browns scored 19 points off one of the worst defenses in the NFL, and needed 10 fourth Q points to beat the 1992 Pats....

 

[Thelonious]

Drew Brees, Alex Smith, Rich Gannon, Steve Young, Michael Vick, and Tom Brady.

Ehhhhhh. I don't think many if any of these qualify. I don't rememeber Tom being ruined by anybody then resurrecting himself. I do remember him being put at a level of disadvantage by an incompetent GM such that he chose to move on..

 

[archstanton543]

Bill just ****ed up the team for the next decade, that's all....
if he got his head out his ass and didn't obsess about ****ing special teams and middling front 7 guys (other than Judon) and put resources into actual playmakers on offense - not jags like juju Sanu, hunter Henry, Bourne, Jonnu Smith, Ezekiel Elliott, Parker, Agholor...need I go on?
I just noticed something today - do people here know that Belichick is such a ****ty coach without Brady that in 92, Bill Belichick brought his Cleveland Browns team into Foxboro to play the 0-7 Pats, a team that would finish 2-14 and consistently ranked in the top 10 worst NFL teams of all time, and won by TWO POINTS over one of the worst teams in NFL history.
Bill the Bozos Browns scored 19 points off one of the worst defenses in the NFL, and needed 10 fourth Q points to beat the 1992 Pats....

And yet they won the game. If they lost, you'd have something there. Just because they didn't win in a way you wanted to doesn't make your argument better.