PostGame Thread 2023 Week 2: Patriots Lose to Dolphins 24-17

[festy1986]

I didn't say you were the one calling in. Again, that narrative is making its way around sports radio, various talking points, etc.

As for Jones' future, time will tell, I guess. We'll see how things look in Week 18, and by then, we'll probably have a good feel for whether or not they're going to want to pick up his option and keep him beyond next year.

I think Mac should be worried about wether or not he's gonna be on the team next year and not worry about his 5th year option.

I'm not gonna lay the blame on him for yesterday but we can't ignore the fact that when push comes to shove he hasn't been able to make those winning drives.

You can say offensive line this, WR that but he's the QB and he's gonna get all the glory and he's gonna take all the heat. It's the job.

 

[Rob0729]

Not sure if I'd call Wentz starter quality anymore. He was worse than 2020 Cam with Washington.

I'd also rather not be the Colts post Luck running the vet merry go round.

He is starter quality, but at the bottom rung. But I am just throwing his name out there. There are other guys.

 

[Ian]

I mean, I hope that we can catch up the rest of the league by building a modern offense when BB is gone. I realize this will take a few seasons with whoever his replacement is.

I agree with @Steve102 when it comes to being curious in terms of seeing how the offensive makeup will be under another staff with a different philosophy. I know they've been resistant to it at this point, but with Brady not being here, it's tougher to lure guys here compared to previously.

 

[sb1]

He is starter quality, but at the bottom rung. But I am just throwing his name out there. There are other guys.

I'd say right now he is exactly what the scouts said he would be. Polished and NFL ready from day 1. High floor, low ceiling. A guy who won't suck and lose games by himself but won't win them either. Someone who probably won't elevate a team but you can win with him if you give him a lot of talent to work with. Which we're missing.

 

[Ian]

I think Mac should be worried about wether or not he's gonna be on the team next year and not worry about his 5th year option.

This season sort of determines both of those, so I would say that would be the reason he would be thinking about it. Although, I'm sure right now, he's focused on trying to get back on the right track, since none of it will matter if that doesn't happen.

 

[Rob0729]

My issue is I don't know what the answer is. I mean, @Triumph and @PatsFan2 can spend all day saying Jones stinks, but that requires someone else to come in and play with the exact same cast with the exact same expectations.

It's OK to be frustrated, but I don't know what the end game is, other than the fact there aren't better guys sitting around who are available to replace him and perform at a higher level.

The problem is whether they at least fix the offensive line, we are going to go another year without knowing whether Jones can be “the guy”. Sure there are QBs who could perform well with the cast Jones has , but not many.

Zolak said Jones played “great” considering the conditions he had. I don’t take his word as be all and end all, but he knows more about QB play than I do.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Nothing to be upset about.

Jones is a loser. Just the way that it is.

Its not like when Brady was here at all. NE needs a competent starter.

So winning a national title at one of the biggest schools in the country on the biggest stage and having an outstanding game while doing it makes him a loser? Did Mac make a pass at your wife? Your hate for him is irrational.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

The problem is whether they at least fix the offensive line, we are going to go another year without knowing whether Jones can be “the guy”. Sure there are QBs who could perform well with the cast Jones has , but not many.

Zolak said Jones played “great” considering the conditions he had. I don’t take his word as be all and end all, but he knows more about QB play than I do.

And knows a little more than Triumph.

 

[Rob0729]

I'd say right now he is exactly what the scouts said he would be. Polished and NFL ready from day 1. High floor, low ceiling. A guy who won't suck and lose games by himself but won't win them either. Someone who probably won't elevate a team but you can win with him if you give him a lot of talent to work with. Which we're missing.

The thing people are missing on this board is the number of QBs who can elevate the players around him can probably be counted on one hand. The QB on the other sidelines last night couldn’t elevate this offense and he is the darling of the NFL.

 

[Guts]

I'd say right now he is exactly what the scouts said he would be. Polished and NFL ready from day 1. High floor, low ceiling. A guy who won't suck and lose games by himself but won't win them either. Someone who probably won't elevate a team but you can win with him if you give him a lot of talent to work with. Which we're missing.

Cousins/ Carr

 

[sb1]

The thing people are missing on this board is the number of QBs who can elevate the players around him can probably be counted on one hand. The QB on the other sidelines last night couldn’t elevate this offense and he is the darling of the NFL.

Sure, but we definitely need one of those for this particular roster.

 

[Jlaff]

I will answer this one. I said at worst. That means Jones is a disaster the rest of the season (or at least far worse than he is playing now) which would move him out of the undeniable starter category.

The issue is he's not in the "undeniable NFL starting caliber QB" now. Not the "undeniable starter" category you moved the goal post to.

Mac started two games this season and it looks like he'll be starting next week too. It's undeniable he's a starting QB in the NFL.

 

[jdlboot14]

OL is everything. Remember when Brady struggled and/or lost the SB? It was because of 1 injured starter, or 1 weak replacement.
Even Rogers was pedestrian last year in GB. Mac has had a very inconsistent and mediocre OL the last 2 years.
Either of those HoF's behind this line would struggle, and take a lot of sacks or throw aways.
No offense can operate without a solid OL - they just haven't had the same 5 develop any consistency since the beginning of TC.
It's worrisome.

 

[Rob0729]

Sure, but we definitely need one of those for this particular roster.

Unfortunately, we aren't getting this one this year. And if you play the odds, it could be years or decades before we do.

There are two ways to have a productive offense in today's NFL. Either you have an elite QB. Or you have a good enough QB that you surround with elite or above average talent. Belichick has done neither with this offense. I think if Jones and Tua traded offenses last night, the Patriots would have won possibly by double digits.

 

[Rob0729]

The issue is he's not in the "undeniable NFL starting caliber QB" now. Not the "undeniable starter" category you moved the goal post to.

Mac started two games this season and it looks like he'll be starting next week too. It's undeniable he's a starting QB in the NFL.

Sorry, you used up all my responses from me. Have a good day.

 

[Ian]

Dude, if we did a poll between me and you on who should leave this board, you would win by a landslide. And I am clearly not the most popular guy on this board.

And we don't need to go there. I was a little harsh myself with @PatsFan2, but I still want to make sure we keep things civil.

 

[sb1]

Unfortunately, we aren't getting this one this year. And if you play the odds, it could be years or decades before we do.

There are two ways to have a productive offense in today's NFL. Either you have an elite QB. Or you have a good enough QB that you surround with elite or above average talent. Belichick has done neither with this offense. I think if Jones and Tua traded offenses last night, the Patriots would have won possibly by double digits.

Yup. It's really hard to find someone elite. The Patriots might be on this QB merry go round for a while. This is life as just another team in this league.

100% agree on your second point. I don't know if a fix is possible with the OL being in the state it's in.

 

[upstater1]

Nobody's discussing the first two picks.

It's Everyone Else.

You know, the THREE C/Gs, TWO Kickers, TWO DBs known more for STs than for coverage, and Yet Another SS/LB...

I was discussing Zay Flowers versus Gonzalez with the previous poster. He would trade Gonzalez for Flowers. You're over here complaining about late round picks. The kickers are more than fine. We need guards. What would we have done last week without them?

And finally this draft was known to have very little depth. Plenty of people said the last 3 rounds were more like taking UDFAs.

 

[Rob0729]

OL is everything. Remember when Brady struggled and/or lost the SB? It was because of 1 injured starter, or 1 weak replacement.
Even Rogers was pedestrian last year in GB. Mac has had a very inconsistent and mediocre OL the last 2 years.
Either of those HoF's behind this line would struggle, and take a lot of sacks or throw aways.
No offense can operate without a solid OL - they just haven't had the same 5 develop any consistency since the beginning of TC.
It's worrisome.

That is something Brady almost always had. A good o-line. A lot of it was done with smoke and mirrors by Scar some years, but the o-line always did a good job giving Brady time and opening holes in the running game.

 

[Rob0729]

And we don't need to go there. I was a little harsh myself with @PatsFan2, but I still want to make sure we keep things civil.

I don't want to go there. And I don't want to make this about what I said or he said. He was the one who said he wished I would disappear like he wishes Mac Jones would disappear. I was just responding to that comment. Personally, I don't have a beef with Triumph. His anti-Mac rants get tiresome, but he is far from the worst guy on this board.