Update: Curran says Belichick has been on the hot seat since 2019

[Ring 6]

When you become the most winningest franchise in the last 20 years, fans will expect a certain standard. I don't think most fans expect Super Bowls, but they at least expect a division title and/or a playoff win sometime soon. We're going on 4 years now without a division title, one playoff appearance and no playoff wins. Bill makes ALL the decisions, so there's no excuses why he can't deliver.

I don’t get this thinking. When are there excuses? You act as if it’s ok to do whatever as long as there is an excuse. What kind of excuse? It’s actually like you don’t count success or failure as finite but need to write a narrative about why success doesn’t count or failure isn’t blamable

Why would belichick need an excuse? He has the greatest level of success ever.
3 average years does not diminish the most success ever. No one had find close to his success, and he could flounder for 10 more years and still be the most successful ever.

Winning in the NFL doesn’t just happen because “you have no excuses why you can’t deliver”. No one has ever stayed on top with no drop off. No one has ever stayed on top for as long as he has.

What I don’t get is why a patriot fan could watch what belichick has done here, which exceeds the wildest dreams anyone could ever have had, and not feel incredible appreciation for what he has done. Instead the same people who benefited from his efforts can hesitate to try and tear him down. Why is that?
It’s almost like fans think they are not only entitled to but responsible for the success and now the man who delivered the most success ever isn’t up to their standards. Ironically most of those people are probably meandering through mediocre careers and have accomplished nothing close to what they guy they feel obligated to tear down has.
Patriot fans have been through the greatest run of success in the history of the support. Why can’t they appreciate that and those who accomplished it?

 

[crawhammer]

Once again you prove you are a fake fan

My bad, you love the last three years. Best parts Matty P assistant head coach and Senior offensive advisor.

 

[Ring 6]

My bad, you love the last three years. Best parts Matty P assistant head coach and Senior offensive advisor.

If you were a real fan you wouldn’t wish other condolences when the team dies not do well. However we know you are actively rooting against the team because it feeds your obsessive agenda.
I LOVE the last 23 years. LOVE LOVE LOVE. I’ve been handed more success as a fan, something I have no entitlement too, something I am no more than an observer of. So I appreciate that and I will only speak of those who delivered it in appreciative ways.
And Matt Patricia? He gave me more SB Titles as a DC than most any other one in the league, so yeah he’s a good dude on my list and I have no reason to be a petty Pissant and tear him down.

You are one of those people who no doubt have a dead end life, a mediocre career and have accomplished nothing in your life. So you get to feel like a big man by tearing down people who gave succeeded. It’s pretty pathetic actually.

 

[crawhammer]

If you were a real fan you wouldn’t wish other condolences when the team dies not do well. However we know you are actively rooting against the team because it feeds your obsessive agenda.
I LOVE the last 23 years. LOVE LOVE LOVE. I’ve been handed more success as a fan, something I have no entitlement too, something I am no more than an observer of. So I appreciate that and I will only speak of those who delivered it in appreciative ways.
And Matt Patricia? He gave me more SB Titles as a DC than most any other one in the league, so yeah he’s a good dude on my list and I have no reason to be a petty Pissant and tear him down.

You are one of those people who no doubt have a dead end life, a mediocre career and have accomplished nothing in your life. So you get to feel like a big man by tearing down people who gave succeeded. It’s pretty pathetic actually.

lol you take yourself way too seriously. You don't know jack **** about me either. Comical take though. And I need to stfu?

And yeah right, when I think of a model of success, I think of Patricia. I don't need to "tear him down" either, he and Bill took care of that. He brought a noteriously mediocre franchise down to its lowest depths. And then he proved beyond any doubt whatsoever that he doesn't know squat about offense. It's a wonder he was still able to find employment in the NFL.

 

[Wozzy]

Football is a team sport. Football games are not won by cumulative statistics. Football games are won by making critical plays at critical times.

You haven’t SHOWN repeatedly you’ve repeated a statement many times. If I say the sky is green 1000000 times that isn’t SHOWING the sky is green.

I’m not sure where you get this fantastical cheat code argument from.
So I will explain to you.

Teams win football games. Every facet of the game matters despite novice or fans tasty football fans thinking passing and catching is all that matters.
Due to rule changes passing has evolved into the most frequent way teams move the ball and score points. None can do it regularly without a running game, or at all without blocking.
The QB is the most important position because he makes the decisions and executes the plays that are most determinative of the outcome. That is compared to any other player, not ALL other players.
QBs throw the ball roughly 600 times a season in a sport where 90% of the games are in play in the 4th quarter. Maybe 50-100 of those passes are the ones that are truly going to make the difference between winning and losing. (Ie the difference between winning and losing is one guy making 3-4 plays that the other guy didn’t).
When you cumulate stats you give the same value to 200 yards in garbage time against prevent defense as you give to 200 yards that built the lead and put the other guy up against prevent.

Football is not baseball. You cannot judge players on stats, because all stats are not created equal. You have to watch them. If you watch Watson in 2020 you would have seen a guy who often was the reason drives stalled, got his team in a hole then padded his numbers coming back and falling short.


As far as your Nick Foles comment I’m not sure any human other than the guy who pollutes all these threads thinks football is about 1 player and the other 53 don’t matter. If you put Brady up against Foles in any given day with relatively equal teams Brady will win a very high percentage of those but far from all. If you give Foles a better team the odds shift, if you give him a much better team he will win a very high percentage of them. I don’t know where people stopped understanding that.

Sure.... Patrick Mahomes is thoroughly revered for all his touchdowns, passing yards, rushing yards... total offense... but when you have an argument to win on Patsfan.com that's when "stats don't matter."

And what you're suggesting is while Drew Brees led the league in passing from 2014-2016, engineering a top five offense all three years, was ranked top five in passing touchdowns all three years.... it wasn't his 32nd ranked defense largely to blame for his team only winning 7 games.... it was some invisible trait that can only be described as his "clutch gene?"

Even though Brees has more 4th quarter drives than all but a few guys in history... again.... the delusion is real.

Stats matter, and the stat that matters most is points.

Just absurd...

 

[Wozzy]

Oh, now we're into name calling ? Way easier than to defend your nonsense I guess.

I said it takes a team to win, but historically HOF QBs have a higher impact on a team success than any other part of a team, and your comeback is ''Brady never played defense'' ? That ought to tell me something I didn't know.

As in regard to Brees, volume stats just means he played for a long time. Bledsoe retired among the top 10 of all time in yards and TDs, I don't think nobody uses that to say he was an all-time great. But again, your brought Brees into the conversation, not me, I have no idea why you bring him up all the time.

You say 'that's why Brady has 7 rings and Brees has one'. But you don't define 'why' (that's one hell of an argument!) Do you really believe that all things being equal, Rodgers and Brees would have had the same number of Super Bowls as Brady ? Watson too I guess ? I guess all the GMs are crazy, spending most of the cap resources toward QBs, since they are just 1 single piece of a 53-players roster.

First there was zero name calling in my post, stop trying to get me in hot water with the mods simply because your silly takes are indefensible.

Second... Brady never played defense or special teams... that's a fact.

And whether you want to accept it or not, while the QB is sitting on the sideline there is a whole other phase of the game going on while you're enjoying the buffet and drink cooler. Tom never made tackles, never defended receivers, never sacked Peyton Manning. This isn't fantasy football we're talking about... it's real football.

And yes, if many of those other superstar QB's had the premier defensive mind in the NFL as their head coach they would have won a lot more rings.

 

[Ring 6]

Sure.... Patrick Mahomes is thoroughly revered for all his touchdowns, passing yards, rushing yards... total offense... but when you have an argument to win on Patsfan.com that's when "stats don't matter."

And what you're suggesting is while Drew Brees led the league in passing from 2014-2016, engineering a top five offense all three years, was ranked top five in passing touchdowns all three years.... it wasn't his 32nd ranked defense largely to blame for his team only winning 7 games.... it was some invisible trait that can only be described as his "clutch gene?"

Even though Brees has more 4th quarter drives than all but a few guys in history... again.... the delusion is real.

Stats matter, and the stat that matters most is points.

Just absurd...

He isn’t revered for stats he is revered for winning. Because he makes the plays that decide games.

So if QB A has a good defense, plays well and gets his team ahead in games and doesn’t throw a lot while playing from ahead and QB B is playing from behind throwing a lot against a soft defense and puts up a bunch of yards and loses, your approach says QB B is better.

I have not ever used the term “clutch gene” but every qb performs better or worse in the game deciding situation just like every qb is better or worse in accuracy, decision making, mobility, etc etc. It’s not a characteristic it’s a result on the field.

A player is better or worse because of the plays they make, not someone’s opinion of what they would do in a different situation. I never said “stats don’t matter” I said you are using stats that are incapable of judging what you want them to.

To wit, today you call points a stat but yesterday Watson who led the 18th scoring offense was claimed by you to be the best QB in the NFL in 2020.

You are right that points is what matters above all else, but your analysis led you to consider a guy who posted hollow cumulative numbers that did not lead to a commensurate amount of points the best QB.
Watson was (among the) best at making a pretty stat sheet, but among the worst at making any of that have value and translate to points.


Your approach says Manning was better then Brady.

 

[Ring 6]

lol you take yourself way too seriously. You don't know jack **** about me either. Comical take though. And I need to stfu?

And yeah right, when I think of a model of success, I think of Patricia. I don't need to "tear him down" either, he and Bill took care of that. He brought a noteriously mediocre franchise down to its lowest depths. And then he proved beyond any doubt whatsoever that he doesn't know squat about offense. It's a wonder he was still able to find employment in the NFL.

Yup, I got you right.

And Matt Patricia was DC of 2 SB Champions. Funny a pissant like you who has accomplished nothing wastes his life criticizing the guy who had a major role in 2 SBs that you theoretically sat and took pride in someone else achieving.

 

[Wozzy]

He isn’t revered for stats he is revered for winning. Because he makes the plays that decide games.

So if QB A has a good defense, plays well and gets his team ahead in games and doesn’t throw a lot while playing from ahead and QB B is playing from behind throwing a lot against a soft defense and puts up a bunch of yards and loses, your approach says QB B is better.

I have not ever used the term “clutch gene” but every qb performs better or worse in the game deciding situation just like every qb is better or worse in accuracy, decision making, mobility, etc etc. It’s not a characteristic it’s a result on the field.

A player is better or worse because of the plays they make, not someone’s opinion of what they would do in a different situation. I never said “stats don’t matter” I said you are using stats that are incapable of judging what you want them to.

To wit, today you call points a stat but yesterday Watson who led the 18th scoring offense was claimed by you to be the best QB in the NFL in 2020.

You are right that points is what matters above all else, but your analysis led you to consider a guy who posted hollow cumulative numbers that did not lead to a commensurate amount of points the best QB.
Watson was (among the) best at making a pretty stat sheet, but among the worst at making any of that have value and translate to points.

Your approach says Manning was better then Brady.

It’s a team sport, no matter how you try to minimize every single element besides the QB.

Brady had better defenses and teams than Manning. Manning had trouble against McGinest, Law and Seymour… he didn’t play against Brady.

Brees, Watson… these guys are some of the most efficient and effective players anytime they’re on the field.

The fact you ignored my question about Bree’s 32nd ranked defense playing a part in his team only winning 7 games says everything. You’re delusional.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I don’t get this thinking. When are there excuses? You act as if it’s ok to do whatever as long as there is an excuse. What kind of excuse? It’s actually like you don’t count success or failure as finite but need to write a narrative about why success doesn’t count or failure isn’t blamable

Why would belichick need an excuse? He has the greatest level of success ever.
3 average years does not diminish the most success ever. No one had find close to his success, and he could flounder for 10 more years and still be the most successful ever.

Winning in the NFL doesn’t just happen because “you have no excuses why you can’t deliver”. No one has ever stayed on top with no drop off. No one has ever stayed on top for as long as he has.

What I don’t get is why a patriot fan could watch what belichick has done here, which exceeds the wildest dreams anyone could ever have had, and not feel incredible appreciation for what he has done. Instead the same people who benefited from his efforts can hesitate to try and tear him down. Why is that?
It’s almost like fans think they are not only entitled to but responsible for the success and now the man who delivered the most success ever isn’t up to their standards. Ironically most of those people are probably meandering through mediocre careers and have accomplished nothing close to what they guy they feel obligated to tear down has.
Patriot fans have been through the greatest run of success in the history of the support. Why can’t they appreciate that and those who accomplished it?

So you’re okay with the last 4 years? Robert Kraft isn’t. When you are writing million dollar checks, you may change you’re thinking.

Again, Bill has set a standard. So why the decline going on the last 4 years? He picks the staff, players and coaches them. So what is so different now? That’s where the no excuses comes from.

I don’t expect Super Bowls, but I expect them to be competitive at the very least and to make and win a playoff game here and there. There are 7 teams now that can make the playoffs. That’s not too much to ask from Bill Belichick.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

So you’re okay with the last 4 years? Robert Kraft isn’t. When you are writing million dollar checks, you may change you’re thinking.

Again, Bill has set a standard. So why the decline going on the last 4 years? He picks the staff, players and coaches them. So what is so different now? That’s where the no excuses comes from.

I don’t expect Super Bowls, but I expect them to be competitive at the very least and to make and win a playoff game here and there. There are 7 teams now that can make the playoffs. That’s not too much to ask from Bill Belichick.

You make it sound so simple like if Bill would just apply himself we could win the division. It's hard to win in this league and you have to manage a salary cap. Not every player you want, wants to play here. The fact he's kept the team on too for so many years is remarkable and will probably never be done again.

 

[Ring 6]

It’s a team sport, no matter how you try to minimize every single element besides the QB.

Brady had better defenses and teams than Manning. Manning had trouble against McGinest, Law and Seymour… he didn’t play against Brady.

Brees, Watson… these guys are some of the most efficient and effective players anytime they’re on the field.

The fact you ignored my question about Bree’s 32nd ranked defense playing a part in his team only winning 7 games says everything. You’re delusional.

And Brady was better than manning. Manning had better stats, Brady made plays that won games.

I didn’t ignore any question. You are ignoring the fact that despite saying points are what matters most you deem the 18th point scoring QB best in the NFL. THAT is delusion, you literally disagree with yourself.

 

[TheRainMaker]

You make it sound so simple like if Bill would just apply himself we could win the division. It's hard to win in this league and you have to manage a salary cap. Not every player you want, wants to play here. The fact he's kept the team on too for so many years is remarkable and will probably never be done again.

Robert Kraft: “Bill, we need to win a playoff game soon”.

Bill Belichick: “It’s too difficult to win in this league”.

Robert: “But you made it look so easy the last 20 years…what has changed?”

Bill: “I don’t know, but it’s too difficult now”.

Robert: “I understand. Carry on.”

 

[crawhammer]

Yup, I got you right.

And Matt Patricia was DC of 2 SB Champions. Funny a pissant like you who has accomplished nothing wastes his life criticizing the guy who had a major role in 2 SBs that you theoretically sat and took pride in someone else achieving.

I'm all set with you for now. You want to be civil and stay on topic later on then fine, we've had reasonable discussions before. You just can't handle yourself right now.

By the way anytime you want to know more about me personally then send me a PM and we can go there. Otherwise I'm not getting into a fraudulent defaming contest with you on the main page.

 

[Ring 6]

So you’re okay with the last 4 years? Robert Kraft isn’t. When you are writing million dollar checks, you may change you’re thinking.

Again, Bill has set a standard. So why the decline going on the last 4 years? He picks the staff, players and coaches them. So what is so different now? That’s where the no excuses comes from.

I don’t expect Super Bowls, but I expect them to be competitive at the very least and to make and win a playoff game here and there. There are 7 teams now that can make the playoffs. That’s not too much to ask from Bill Belichick.

What does that even mean “you are ok with the last 4 years”?
It is what it is. I have no control over it. I wish they won 4 SBs the last 4 years.

You act as if being ok or not means something. So if you are “not ok with it” so what? What does that mean?
What would it change?

My take: We have the greatest ever, who had produced the greatest result ever over the longest run ever. Now is a down time and they are working to rebuild. I believe there is no more talented coach or GM now or ever, so why would I dismiss all of that success to call for doing something stupid? Do you really think the New England Patriots would have been or will be better under someone else?
Do you really think if BB retired in 2019 we would be better shape today?

This board has become an exercise in petulant children thinking they are entitled to success in something they have absolutely nothing to do with and if they don’t get it they are going to really complain because damn it they deserve “to at least make and win playoff games”

 

[Ring 6]

I'm all set with you for now. You want to be civil and stay on topic later on then fine, we've had reasonable discussions before. You just can't handle yourself right now.

By the way anytime you want to know more about me personally then send me a PM and we can go there. Otherwise I'm not getting into a fraudulent defaming contest with you on the main page.

I have no interest in being civil with you. You are everything I despise about fake fans. I’ve seen your kind before and while you want to pretend I haven’t seen through you I have no need to pm you to prove it.

 

[Wozzy]

And Brady was better than manning. Manning had better stats, Brady made plays that won games.

I didn’t ignore any question. You are ignoring the fact that despite saying points are what matters most you deem the 18th point scoring QB best in the NFL. THAT is delusion, you literally disagree with yourself.

Brees 32nd ranked defense is why his team only won 7 games… not some missing “clutch gene” that only you and other QB fanboys can see.

And yeah, you ignored that entirely, because even you knew it would be too glaringly silly to say out loud.

 

[crawhammer]

@Wozzy what do you have to say for Brady's 14 postseason game-winning drives (6 in the Super Bowl) and 9 postseason fourth-quarter comebacks (3 in the Super Bowl)?

 

[Ring 6]

Brees 32nd ranked defense is why his team only won 7 games… not some missing “clutch gene” that only you and other QB fanboys can see.

And yeah, you ignored that entirely, because even you knew it would be too glaringly silly to say out loud.

I have made voluminous posts explaining this topic to you. Why you would miscast everything I said to result in pretending I think QBs are all that matter or making some bizarre claim about a clutch gene is strange.

Brees had an entire career to turn his okay on the title into wining. Singling out 3 years as if going 7-9 with s bad defense is a feather in his cap to gloss over the obvious fact that his cumulative stats overrate him is dishonest.
Brees played 20 years. His ability as a qb resulted in contributing to his team winning 9 playoff games, 3 in one year with a loaded team, and a total of 6 in the other 19 years.

If you judge a QB by cumulative statistics Brees is one of the greatest few ever. If you judge a QB by their contribution to winning he isn’t close to that.

 

[Ring 6]

Brees 32nd ranked defense is why his team only won 7 games… not some missing “clutch gene” that only you and other QB fanboys can see.

And yeah, you ignored that entirely, because even you knew it would be too glaringly silly to say out loud.

Are you still saying the 18th ranked scoring offense had the best QB play in the NFL in 2020?