O’Brien is going to demand accountability of the receivers

[archstanton543]

...but how is that Troy Brown's fault?

Because he hasn't developed any WR's (outside of Jakobi) since he's been WR coach. Do you think Josh and Matt told him specifically "Troy, make sure these guys don't perform up their potential."?

 

[crawhammer]

That's a misleading stat. How many of those TD's were scored by WR's? How many of them were rushing TD?

How many were FG's?

Patriots pass game rankings:

2022: 20th
2021: 14th
2020: 30th
2019: 8th
2018: 8th
2017: 2nd
2016: 4th
2015: 5th
2014: 9th
2013: 10th
2012: 4th
2011: 2nd

The rankings/results have more to do with the QB and personnel than the coaching.

 

[archstanton543]

Not true
2019 off season coach in "unofficial capacity"
2020 announced as RB/Kick Return coach
2021-22 WR/Kick Return coach

Simple question: Name a Troy Brown WR coaching success?

Meyers' ascension was well under way prior to Brown's involvement and was Cam Newton's #1 while Brown was RB coach.
Brown's 1 year with N'Keal Harry.....FAIL. Hindsight suggests Harry was beyond repair but the fact remains: Brown couldn't fix him.
Bourne took a half season to get up to speed under Brown but Bourne's attitude submarined him in '22. From a 2 year production stand point....FAIL
Agholor... 2 year disappointment....FAIL
Parker....Is anyone arguing it was Troy Brown who taught Parker to run straight down the sideline and leap for Mac floaters?

Maybe Brown deserves a pass given the BoBo infection that Bill brought onto his team.
Or maybe Brown is merely another Patriots sacred cow, and fanboys are simply blinded by sentimentality and hero worship.

I think we agree more than we disagree.

 

[archstanton543]

Patriots pass game rankings:

2022: 20th
2021: 14th
2020: 30th
2019: 8th
2018: 8th
2017: 2nd
2016: 4th
2015: 5th
2014: 9th
2013: 10th
2012: 4th
2011: 2nd

The rankings/results have more to do with the QB and personnel than the coaching.

Coaching matters more in football than it does in any other sport.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Because he hasn't developed any WR's (outside of Jakobi) since he's been WR coach. Do you think Josh and Matt told him specifically "Troy, make sure these guys don't perform up their potential."?

Could it be also true they drafted players not worth a damn?

A WR coach's job is to assimilate all WRs into the program and help maximize their potential.

Meyers, Parker, Bourne, Byrd all had success here.

 

[archstanton543]

Could it be also true they drafted players not worth a damn?

A WR coach's job is to assimilate all WRs into the program and help maximize their potential.

Meyers, Parker, Bourne, Byrd all had success here.

Parker and Bourne were well-established before they came here. Troy didn't develop them.

Byrd?

 

[crawhammer]

Coaching matters more in football than it does in any other sport.

Possibly but that's a different subject. Players matter more than coaches in every sport including the NFL. And the most important players in the NFL are QBs.

 

[archstanton543]

...but how is that Troy Brown's fault?

He has the unenviable task of making chicken salad out of chicken sh!t.

 

[*ChungFu*]

Thornton's biggest issue is he looks like a boy among men... literally. Physique isn't coachable. We'll see what he looks like with 20 added pounds of muscle but until then I'm sticking with he's too slim to compete with NFL DBs.

He should be able to drag Forbes down the field by his ear.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Is he though? Other than Jakobi Meyers, name me one other WR he's developed over this tenure as WR coach?

I'm a big Troy Brown, the player, fan as anyone. As a coach? Not so much.

I guess Marcus Jones? TB80's only been WRs coach for 2 years, and the 2 picks in that time have been TT and 7th rounder TNixon. He's already coached up 2 All Pro returners in 3 years as the Returners coach. I obv have a lot of bias, but I'm hopefully optimistic for the coming year.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

It's really hard to know how good Troy Brown is. The WR unit looked poorly coached last year, but it's not like Brown has been blessed with great talent to coach at the position. It certainly isn't a good look that pass catchers were running into each other last year on routes from a WR coach perspective. I'd like to blame Patricia on that, but if I see it happen again this season I hope they re-assign Brown to coach another position.

I hope that BoB is able to prevent the mental mistakes via preparation before the game than having to bench a receiver because they made a mistake. WIth BoB at the helm I do expect significantly less mistakes than last year, less because he holds players accountable in a way Patricia didn't but more because BoB will be better at coaching the install of plays.

 

[Rob0729]

Thornton's biggest issue is he looks like a boy among men... literally. Physique isn't coachable. We'll see what he looks like with 20 added pounds of muscle but until then I'm sticking with he's too slim to compete with NFL DBs.

I didn't see him getting manhandled any more than any other receiver. What I did see is him not knowing how to work the sidelines and back of the endzone repeatedly and when he was wide open and plenty of field in front of him slow up and turn around to catch the ball when he could actually catch it cleaner in stride.

Here are a couple of examples I could find.

 

[Jim Beankie]

The DD pick (and maybe even the Marcus Jones pick last year) tells me that TB80 now seems to have more input now in shopping for groceries. Loosely reminds me of before the 2019 draft when Deion Branch said the Pats should pick AJ Brown or DK Metcalf. Time will tell how this'll all work out.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He has the unenviable task of making chicken salad out of chicken sh!t.

That's my point. To blame him for underperforming WRs is unfair.

 

[Chevy]

Randy Moss wasn't a jump ball receiver though. He could win the jump balls yes, but he was also blazing fast and a smart route runner (and overall player). Also, we shouldn't be comparing any player's performance and skill set with Randy Moss, any more than we should judge a TE's performance with Rob Gronkokwski. Nobody looks good frame by frame next to a top 3 all-time player at their position.

EDIT: @Chevy beat me to it!

Great minds think alike ...

 

[Jim Beankie]

I didn't see him getting manhandled any more than any other receiver. What I did see is him not knowing how to work the sidelines and back of the endzone repeatedly and when he was wide open and plenty of field in front of him slow up and turn around to catch the ball when he could actually catch it cleaner in stride.

Here are a couple of examples I could find.

We'll disagree on this, but both of those plays to me were more Mac's fault.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Parker and Bourne were well-established before they came here. Troy didn't develop them.

Byrd?

Damiere Byrd- 2020.

Brown helped those players learn the offense and their responsibilities which is a primary responsibility for a positional coach.

 

[crawhammer]

I didn't see him getting manhandled any more than any other receiver. What I did see is him not knowing how to work the sidelines and back of the endzone repeatedly and when he was wide open and plenty of field in front of him slow up and turn around to catch the ball when he could actually catch it cleaner in stride.

Here are a couple of examples I could find.

The first pass Mac was a tad late with the throw. Thornton did a poor job keeping his feet inbounds too.

That's a blown coverage on the second, no one picked up Thornton, he and Mac should have connected on a long TD there. Maybe Mac could have pump faked the safety and really opened it up. Thornton also didn't throttle up there given the enormous space he had and then he adjusted poorly to the throw.

 

[Rob0729]

We'll disagree on this, but both of those plays to me were more Mac's fault.

Nah, the first play hit Thornton in bounds and he didn't get both feet down. We see plays like this all the time and it is the WR's responsibility to drag the foot.

And the second play Thornton is running a seam route with no one around him or between him and the endzone. He slowed down on the route when he should have kept running and caught that in stride. Thornton was wrong on that play. Jones read the play right. Thornton read it wrong.

 

[TomPatriot]

The Great Randy Moss.

Randy Moss had 4.2-4.3 speed.