O/T: Vrabel voted into Patriots HOF

[TommyD4207]

Comments:

a.) Parcells should be in the Patriots HOF. But that is an argument for another day.

Never.

If he gets in, Pete Carroll should get in, he had a better record.

 

[stinkypete]

This board is severely underselling Vrabel. Absolute foundational piece of that great defense, versatile, clutch when the team needed him.

Mankins and Welker were more accomplished players and greater talents, Vrabel contributed more to the lore of the dynasty.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Parcells introduced BB to Kraft. Don’t let anyone kid you. I was there, I saw it. Kraft hired BB to spite Parcells. If there is no Parcells, there is no BB. If there is no Parcella, there is no dynasty.

I doubt the bolded part. Kraft hired him because he felt he was ready to be a HC in 2000. What Bill did during the 1999 season got him a lot attention slowing down both Drew Bledsoe and Peyton Manning.

I’m not taking anything away from BB & TB12, the drivers of the dynasty, but neither of those guys ever step foot in New England, if it were for Parcells, the man that started it all.

Yes, but at the end of the day, Bob made the choice to take a chance on Bill.

Incredible drafting that completely turned the franchise around. Drafted two Hall of Damers in 1995. Maybe the greatest draft in league history.

That and the 1996 draft.

This board is severely underselling Vrabel. Absolute foundational piece of that great defense, versatile, clutch when the team needed him.

He was not a foundational piece. Richard Seymour was a foundational piece. That 2001 defense would've been pretty bad without him. Ted Washington in 2003 was a foundational piece as they don't run the 3-4 without him. Ditto with Wilfork.

Mankins and Welker were more accomplished players and greater talents, Vrabel contributed more to the lore of the dynasty.

Vrabel just happened to be on winning teams and a part of good defenses, but he was not the reason they were that good in 2003 and 2004.

 

[AQPE]

No Vrabel, no Ty Law interception in SBXXXVI, no Law interception no championship. Watch what he did on that play, he did that so many times here, the TD catches are fun but they are the cherry on top of the sundae. He’s no NFL HOFer but was a great Patriot.

With that said, Julius Adams needs to be inducted by Kraft fiat immediately.

Saying this was a “weak class” is ludicrous and embarrassing

 

[crawhammer]

There's a very solid argument for Parcells not getting into the team HOF: The week before the Super Bowl, his priority was getting another job, not preparing the team.

The team was prepared. Coaching was a major reason why that team got as far as they did. Green Bay was the better team. Our ****ing quarterback had 4 INTs. Their quarterback had 0 turnovers. That's why we lost the game. Not because Parcells was doing his own thing in with his free time.

 

[Ghost_Rush02]

He was the only choice of the 3 finalists.

I wish Kraft would take a break from getting his pipe polished and put Julius Adams in by executive order.

Parcells?? I would love for someone to tell me why hasn't this man been elected yet. He basically got the ball rolling from what the patriots were to what they are as many know them to be today.

 

[sb1]

Parcells set the table for Dynasty 1.0. He brought in the pieces on defense that made that happen (BB added a few more to finish the job). It's what Tuna does best... build up teams from nothing and I bet the Jets were attractive to him for that reason. When Parcells arrived IIRC the Patriots were on the verge of leaving NE.

But it's hard to look past Parcells literally bailing on the team during Super Bowl week. He was outcoached in the game big time by Holmgren. He also went scorched earth on his old team after he left including stealing Curtis Martin.

 

[sb1]

The team was prepared. Coaching was a major reason why that team got as far as they did. Green Bay was the better team. Our ****ing quarterback had 4 INTs. Their quarterback had 0 turnovers. That's why we lost the game. Not because Parcells was doing his own thing in with his free time.

To be fair, the fact Max Lane was 1 on 1 with Reggie White had something to do with that. That's a coaching failure. As was going away from Curtis Martin who was gashing them in the 3rd quarter to inexplicably let Bledsoe sling it with a compromised OL - see first sentence. As was kicking to Desmond Howard again after he almost did early in the game what we all know he did later.

 

[Ghost_Rush02]

Parcells set the table for Dynasty 1.0. He brought in the pieces on defense that made that happen (BB added a few more to finish the job). It's what Tuna does best... build up teams from nothing and I bet the Jets were attractive to him for that reason. When Parcells arrived IIRC the Patriots were on the verge of leaving NE.

But it's hard to look past Parcells literally bailing on the team during Super Bowl week. He was outcoached in the game big time by Holmgren. He also went scorched earth on his old team after he left including stealing Curtis Martin.

This is the part that patriots fans need to get over. As you said, Parcells set the table for the Dynasty. That is it, end of subject. Can't penalize him for however the SB played out. Plus he got them there. We should not just judge him on that, plus he still was a hell of a coach while he was here. He played a big part of what the patriots are today. Same as Bledsoe. No he wasn't as good Brady obviously and i am sure if we were to compare him to other QBs he doesn't measure up, but it's what he did for the franchise that should hold him in high regards. Same should be said for him.



Just shameful patriots fans have not voted him in yet.

 

[Dingleberry]

Parcells?? I would love for someone to tell me why hasn't this man been elected yet. He basically got the ball rolling from what the patriots were to what they are as many know them to be today.

I don't easily overlook sabotaging a Super Bowl.

He definitely got the ball rolling. Then he took a giant **** on the ball.

 

[yukon cornelius]

This is the part that patriots fans need to get over. As you said, Parcells set the table for the Dynasty. That is it, end of subject. Can't penalize him for however the SB played out. Plus he got them there. We should not just judge him on that, plus he still was a hell of a coach while he was here. He played a big part of what the patriots are today. Same as Bledsoe. No he wasn't as good Brady obviously and i am sure if we were to compare him to other QBs he doesn't measure up, but it's what he did for the franchise that should hold him in high regards. Same should be said for him.



Just shameful patriots fans have not voted him in yet.

his influence on the dynasty was vastly overrated

 

[Ghost_Rush02]

his influence on the dynasty was vastly overrated

How?

A lot of those players that helped win the 01 SB was players Parcell's drafted and coached as well.


@Dingeberry..ha ha that man did not sabotage the SB. On top of the fact he got you there in the in the first place. (granted if i was to nitpick, Denver had no business losing to the upstart jags making it easier for us to get there in the first place)

 

[crawhammer]

To be fair, the fact Max Lane was 1 on 1 with Reggie White had something to do with that. That's a coaching failure. As was going away from Curtis Martin who was gashing them in the 3rd quarter to inexplicably let Bledsoe sling it with a compromised OL - see first sentence. As was kicking to Desmond Howard again after he almost did early in the game what we all know he did later.

All fair second guessing of the coaching. But the quarterback still sucked bigtime. And there's no way to draw a line from Parcells talking to Jets pre-SB to the coaching decisions and player execution during the game. That's my main point.

 

[crawhammer]

I like Parcells, and I think he's deserving of induction to the Patriots HOF, but 100%, Wes Welker should have been the inductee for 2023.

 

[Ghost_Rush02]

I like Parcells, and I think he's deserving of induction to the Patriots HOF, but 100%, Wes Welker should have been the inductee for 2023.

why isnt he in yet? Or maybe its not his time yet? Just asking, i never really knew the criteria to when a former player could be mentioned for the patriots hall of fame.

 

[crawhammer]

why isnt he in yet?

Great question. Maybe someone else can answer it. I have no clue. What asinine franchise HOF doesn't induct their best all time WR?

Or maybe its not his time yet?

Wes has been eligible and nominated.

 

[yukon cornelius]

his influence on the dynasty was vastly overrated

How?

A lot of those players that helped win the 01 SB was players Parcell's drafted and coached as well.


@Dingeberry..ha ha that man did not sabotage the SB. On top of the fact he got you there in the in the first place. (granted if i was to nitpick, Denver had no business losing to the upstart jags making it easier for us to get there in the first place)

parcells as a coach is overrated; he had his most success when he had great assistants....beyond that, he was pretty fear based and players, especially vets, tended to tune him out (no pun intended)....it's a big reason his career was dotted with short stints post giants; he was a great GM, overrated as a coach

the pats had two good drafts before he got here, and then grier took over in 96, and they continued to have great drafts.......i'd argue parcells had very little to do with player development once they were drafted, but that's me

but you lose all credibility when you say he did not sabotage the SB.......that's straight fact


Bob Kraft will always be the savior for this franchise.......Parcells was just a cog in the wheel......good GM, brought in some good players, .500 as a coach, threw a temper tantrum, quit on his franchise, acted like a petulant brat, held his breath and ran......screw him

 

[Dingleberry]

How?

A lot of those players that helped win the 01 SB was players Parcell's drafted and coached as well.


@Dingeberry..ha ha that man did not sabotage the SB. On top of the fact he got you there in the in the first place. (granted if i was to nitpick, Denver had no business losing to the upstart jags making it easier for us to get there in the first place)

I do agree that the Broncos choke against the Jags paved their way. The Patriots were not going to Denver and beating them.

Parcells spent the lead up to the SB much more focused on playing slap and tickle with the Jets instead of trying to win a championship. Whatever his beef with Kraft (and I believe there was merit to his beef), he should have had 100% respect for and dedication to his players. He did not. That is sabotage.

His ego, his future landing spot, and his hurt feelings were more important than winning the final game. That is sabotage.

Doesn't mean he is evil or a bad football mind. It just disqualifies him from the Patriots HOF. There are other opinions on this, of course, no matter how wrong they are.

 

[yukon cornelius]

parcells as a coach is overrated; he had his most success when he had great assistants....beyond that, he was pretty fear based and players, especially vets, tended to tune him out (no pun intended)....it's a big reason his career was dotted with short stints post giants; he was a great GM, overrated as a coach

the pats had two good drafts before he got here, and then grier took over in 96, and they continued to have great drafts.......i'd argue parcells had very little to do with player development once they were drafted, but that's me

but you lose all credibility when you say he did not sabotage the SB.......that's straight fact


Bob Kraft will always be the savior for this franchise.......Parcells was just a cog in the wheel......good GM, brought in some good players, .500 as a coach, threw a temper tantrum, quit on his franchise, acted like a petulant brat, held his breath and ran......screw him

his winning percentage after the giants was just a shade under 54%

weirdly he struggled in the salary cap era

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Sorry bud, but a lot of people find it worth discussing. You don't have to participate. Do I go out of my way to tell you what you can and cannot find interesting? And I don't ever recall telling you that you can't speak.

But to answer your question, in part, the split, and Brady's subsequent success in Tampa Bay really charged up the debate. I think Bill's of the belief that "his system" is mostly responsible for the team's success and it motivated him some to move on from Brady (to create an opportunity to prove it). It completely backfired because Brady won and he hasn't. I also think Brady felt disrespected by Bill because he wouldn't commit to him beyond one year at a time. Brady got the commitment from another team and he wanted to validate their decision so he merely led them to a Super Bowl championship. Not bad for a 43-year-old quarterback.

The truth is that Kraft deferred to Belichick when all he had to do was exercise some common sense and do for Tom what he did for Drew, who then stunk and they got rid of him anyway.

And Kraft drove Parcells out of town.