PFT: Bill "has shopped" Mac

[Wozzy]

I mean, who do you believe here.

Florio says it's true.
Giardi says it's false.
Callahan says it's false.
Kyed says it's true.
Breer says it's true.
Lombardi says it's false.

Choose your preferred reporter I believe? Depends on what "false" means too. Was Mac being "shopped"? Probably not. But that doesn't mean he's not available for trade.

Multiple reporters have directly asked the teams involved in Florio’s story if the Patriots approached them about shopping Mac and they denied it outright.

Lombardi described it like this, some team reads the gossip that “BB hates Mac, Mac hates BB” and asked BB about Mac’s availability. That’s not the Patriots shopping Mac.

Bill could call Andy Reid tonight and ask him if he considered trading Mahomes… is Andy Reid shopping Mahomes?

No, is the answer.

Everyone is available in trade if the compensation is right. The Pats haven’t reached out to other teams and tried to sell them on Mac Jones according to Mike. He’s buddies with BB, he’d actually know and he laughed about it.

After free agency and before the draft is the slowest part of the news cycle. Could somebody build off this and trade a 1st for Mac, could Green Bay take Mac back in trade for Rogers? Possibly…. but I doubt they’re actively shopping him.

 

[moosekill]

I mean, who do you believe here.

Florio says it's true.
Giardi says it's false.
Callahan says it's false.
Kyed says it's true.
Breer says it's true.
Lombardi says it's false.

Choose your preferred reporter I believe? Depends on what "false" means too. Was Mac being "shopped"? Probably not. But that doesn't mean he's not available for trade.

Breer didn't really say it was true, right, let us not stretch the truth here. Rob seems like the main person who feels that a QB needs to be coddled and told he is great and we want him and he doesn't have to compete. Sorry, every single other position on the team is competing for their job. If Zappe is better he will start. If they draft a rookie and he is better he will start. If they get a vet in, and he is better, then he will start. That is the way sports at most levels work, except in some of today's every kid needs a trophy crap. Mac has not earned the job, if he can great, if he can't great, if he needs coddling, he won't be playing much longer.

 

[Rob0729]

Breer didn't really say it was true, right, let us not stretch the truth here. Rob seems like the main person who feels that a QB needs to be coddled and told he is great and we want him and he doesn't have to compete. Sorry, every single other position on the team is competing for their job. If Zappe is better he will start. If they draft a rookie and he is better he will start. If they get a vet in, and he is better, then he will start. That is the way sports at most levels work, except in some of today's every kid needs a trophy crap. Mac has not earned the job, if he can great, if he can't great, if he needs coddling, he won't be playing much longer.

I never said he needs to be coddled. Don't put words into my mouth. I said he doesn't need to be hung out to dry. Saying Mac is his QB isn't coddling Jones. Refusing to say he is the starter all last year no matter how many times asked and allowing the QB controversy to fester is hanging him out to dry in a season where Belichick literally destroyed the offense.

If you think a QB is coddled by putting in a position to succeed by creating an offense that will play to his strengths and minimize his weaknesses and actually saying he is the starter going forward when he is the starter going forward, then I absolutely agree that a QB should be coddled.

 

[Love The Drake]

Mac doesn’t deserve anything in that affect I don’t think any player deserves anything I’m in sales what I did last month has zero with what I’m contributing today.
You have to earn your spot everyday that should go to every member of the Patriots.
When it’s not that way complacency starts.

 

[TomPatriot]

Well if Mac Jones beat out Bryce Young in a QB competition for the starting job at Alabama... that's pretty darn good competition considering that Young is slotted to go #1 overall in the draft. Just saying...

Jones was a senior and Young was a freshman.

 

[moosekill]

I never said he needs to be coddled. Don't put words into my mouth. I said he doesn't need to be hung out to dry. Saying Mac is his QB isn't coddling Jones. Refusing to say he is the starter all last year no matter how many times asked and allowing the QB controversy to fester is hanging him out to dry in a season where Belichick literally destroyed the offense.

He isn't the starter. He stunk for most of the year last year, but he did play better at the end. It is only a controversy because he sucked. IF he didn't suck there wouldn't be a question. If you suck you don't get a freaking trophy saying you are the starting qb. He sucked with the offense that didn't suck when Zappe played. You keep coming up with excuses for him. Hell I like Mac and hope he is so great in preseason there is no controversy, but enough of this new age crap. He has to earn the spot and what he did last year wasn't good enough.

 

[Rob0729]

Jones was a senior and Young was a freshman.

But Young was, at least perceived to be, the annoited starter for Bama in 2020.

 

[Ross12]

I think people are getting hung up on the gap between Mac "being shopped" and Mac "being available for trade". Many outlets are refuting that NE has actively shopped him. I agree, he probably has not been shopped. However, several reporters have gotten confirmations that Mac has come up in trade talks. He is not "untouchable", he is available for trade.

Beyond that - teams are pretty much always going to lean towards denying they've discussed trading for a player because you know what happens when they confirm it? If multiple teams confirm they're involved, the price suddenly goes up. If they all deny they're involved and keep each other in the dark then there's an appearance of fewer suitors and the price stays lower. You're also not going to confirm you're talking about a Mac trade if you already have an at least semi-established starting QB because then your local media will take that and run with it and there'll be 100 stories about how the QB has lost the faith of the staff because they're looking at Mac Jones. There are many reasons to deny trade interest as a receiving team and few reasons to confirm interest. Typically you only hear about teams that are interested from the team holding the player in an effort to drive the price up on their side.

 

[borg]

My feeling is... Mac doesn't want to compete. He's a 3rd year QB who needs his option picked up or an extension next offseason. He wants to be in a position to showcase his skillset this year. He can't do that if he's in a competition with Zappe and isn't sure he'll win that competition. So he perhaps also wants to be sent elsewhere where he can be named the starter outright and have more certainty about his future.

Totally agree
With $25 mill second contracts waiting most JAG starters, Mac and his peeps are trying to position young Corky to cash in.
Bill ain't playing ball

 

[Sicilian]

I think people are getting hung up on the gap between Mac "being shopped" and Mac "being available for trade". Many outlets are refuting that NE has actively shopped him. I agree, he probably has not been shopped. However, several reporters have gotten confirmations that Mac has come up in trade talks. He is not "untouchable", he is available for trade.

Beyond that - teams are pretty much always going to lean towards denying they've discussed trading for a player because you know what happens when they confirm it? If multiple teams confirm they're involved, the price suddenly goes up. If they all deny they're involved and keep each other in the dark then there's an appearance of fewer suitors and the price stays lower. You're also not going to confirm you're talking about a Mac trade if you already have an at least semi-established starting QB because then your local media will take that and run with it and there'll be 100 stories about how the QB has lost the faith of the staff because they're looking at Mac Jones. There are many reasons to deny trade interest as a receiving team and few reasons to confirm interest. Typically you only hear about teams that are interested from the team holding the player in an effort to drive the price up on their side.

Those two words may seem like semantics to you, but they imply very different things IMO. Shopped implies "We really want to get rid of this guy" while the other implies just that trade talks are not a non-starter, which is probably something that has been the case with 99.9% of Patriots players in the last 20 years. One word is used to imply a direct contention, the other does not. There's a reason Florio went with the former when all other reports seem to (at best) indicate the latter, and it's not because Florio knows something the others don't.

 

[Ross12]

Those two words may seem like semantics to you, but they imply very different things IMO. Shopped implies "We really want to get rid of this guy" while the other implies just that trade talks are not a non-starter, which is probably something that has been the case with 99.9% of Patriots players in the last 20 years. One word is used to imply a direct contention, the other does not. There's a reason Florio went with the former when all other reports seem to (at best) indicate the latter, and it's not because Florio knows something the others don't.

Oh yeah, there's definitely a difference. But I think we should still all be surprised Mac is available to an extent, and I've seen many many posts in this thread amounting to "fake news, he's not available." Is he being shopped? Probably not, no. Is he available? Yes, he appears to be.

 

[Rob0729]

He isn't the starter. He stunk for most of the year last year, but he did play better at the end. It is only a controversy because he sucked. IF he didn't suck there wouldn't be a question. If you suck you don't get a freaking trophy saying you are the starting qb. He sucked with the offense that didn't suck when Zappe played. You keep coming up with excuses for him. Hell I like Mac and hope he is so great in preseason there is no controversy, but enough of this new age crap. He has to earn the spot and what he did last year wasn't good enough.

He was last year. And no matter how many times Belichick was asked, he refused to say he was the starter.

He sucked last year in large part because the offense was one of the worst offense systems and called offense in NFL history.

And as for Zappe, if want a QB who hands off the ball most of the game and passes 15-20 times a game, he is your guy. He showed last year if you create an offense where the running game does most of the work and the QB stays out of the way, he can be your guy. That is how he was successful in two of the three games he played most or all of the game. People so overrate how good Zappe was last year and how was used. And he certainly wasn't used like they used Jones. And I think Jones could be awesome as a pure game manager where he just hands off the ball and only asked to throw in certain situations. And he has shown he can be awesome when the Pats actually let him do play action under center like they did with Zappe.

And after something like 80 years of the NFL, people are catching on that how head coaches have treated QBs for decades is new age crap. The proper way to treat QBs is to put them in systems that exploit their weaknesses and minimized their strengths and refuse to call them starters.

 

[TomPatriot]

But Young was, at least perceived to be, the annoited starter for Bama in 2020.

Ok, but he was right of out HS. Mac Jones had 3 years with Sarkisian. It’s fair if people acknowledge he wasn’t good enough to beat out Tua and JH, even though Mac was younger.

 

[Ross12]

Totally agree
With $25 mill second contracts waiting most JAG starters, Mac and his peeps are trying to position young Corky to cash in.
Bill ain't playing ball

Daniel Jones got a mega deal just by being decent for 1 year with Daboll after being absolutely awful for 3 years. I can see Mac looking at that and thinking if he could get to another franchise and play decently for a year he'd get as much or more, and knows that won't happen in NE.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Sorry I don't hate bill. At the same time I am not willing to excuse bill for what he did last year

I don't excuse BB for last year either. Inexcusable and not understandable. Having said that we were talking about your desire for BB to show Mac more love this year, not last year.

The blame is on both sides and I don't want to give bill a free pass for it. We should just move on and use this year to gauge Mac rather than moving on because he sought outside counsel . That seems like you poke me I gouge out both your eyes , extremely immature.

I do not know what really happened and what Mac feels now. But if Mac stinks or shines with BOB we have our answer. To me the rest is all noise.

If by mid season zappe wins it so be it, but to let go of your first round pick because bill felt slighted is not on.

BB has never been like that, not sure why you think BB changed. Most people think BB should loosen up and change, but he doesn't.

I love pats and bill , but I am not a blind homer and believe in bills philosophy of moving 1 year early.

Not sure why people feel the need to say they are not "blind homers".

But if Mac gets moved on for reaching out to outside counsel , then my view is bill has lost his fastball and needs to move out as well .

That is a made up hypothetical. I look at what is verified and real. I am not a hypothetical guy - we can play hypotheticals all day long - no thanks.

Everyone's mental acumen declines as they age and looks like bill is no exception to it either .

Now we are doing psychoanalysis on BB's mental state? Ridiculous.

 

[TomPatriot]

Daniel Jones got a mega deal just by being decent for 1 year with Daboll after being absolutely awful for 3 years. I can see Mac looking at that and thinking if he could get to another franchise and play decently for a year he'd get as much or more, and knows that won't happen in NE.

If that’s the case, he should ask to be traded. There’s no evidence he’s done that.

 

[Rob0729]

Totally agree
With $25 mill second contracts waiting most JAG starters, Mac and his peeps are trying to position young Corky to cash in.
Bill ain't playing ball

The guy is three years away from hitting the free agency market if the Pats keep him. He has two years left on his rookie deal and a fifth year option. If he cannot beat out Zappe, that probably means he isn't going to get $25 million a year. And if he is really far better than Zappe and still doesn't get the starting job, then Belichick should be fired and Jones getting $25 million a year from this team is the least of our concerns.

 

[Rob0729]

Ok, but he was right of out HS. Mac Jones had 3 years with Sarkisian. It’s fair if people acknowledge he wasn’t good enough to beat out Tua and JH, even though Mac was younger.

Young was considered a generational talent coming out of high school. At least at the NFL level. He wasn't just any freshman coming out out of high school.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Several things.

Cassel basically played for an entire season.

OK. Haha.

Bledsoe and Brady never competed for the starting job. Bledsoe was the anointed starter in 2001. When he went down and by the time he came back, Brady was on a roll and Belichick never considered going back.

But other coaches would have gone back to Bledsoe. So Brady and Bledsoe were competing. That is what guys in the NFL do - compete for playing time, all day, every practice. There are a few exceptions like Brady of course.

I don't think there is a real QB competition. If Jones is on the roster, unless they trade for a legitimate top 5 QB like Lamar Jackson or Jones completely falls on his face or Zappe has an incredible jump in year two, Jones will be the starter in 2023. If Belichick benches Jones for Zappe, I think Kraft will want some significant proof that Zappe is clearly better for the switch.

I agree that Mac has the lead and is the favorite going into camp. And I am a Mac guy and have very HIGH hopes because I think Mac reads defenses and sees the field exceptionally well which I believe are more important than a "rocket" arm. Having said that, Bailey did pass the eye test, so who knows.

 

[Bill Lee]

This is a what have you done for me lately league. The Pats haven't won a playoff game since 2018. They have only been in two playoff games in the time since the 2018 season. This is year three into the rebuild process if you give Belichick a mulligan for 2020 and year four if you don't. And Belichick tanked last season with his stupid move of Patricia and Judge. How many years does Belichick have to get this team back on track and be a serious playoff contender? If the Pats don't make the playoff this year, it will be five years without a playoff win and the Pats would have missed the playoffs three of the last four years.

Seriously at this point, I would rather tank a season and try to be in a position to draft an elite QB than this 8-9 win zone year after year.

And I don't know what Jones' future is with or without the team. But I do know Kraft wants him to play and see what he has and is a fan of Jones. And he writes the checks. If he is benched for Zappe and the Pats don't make the playoffs, that is it for Belichick. After last season, Kraft is not going to happy with a mediocre non-playoff team with Zappe at QB when Belichick didn't give the 15th overall pick a shot to redeem himself after Belichick screwed up the offense last year and put Jones in a position for failure.

Your aren't making sense to me.

If it really was a "what have you done for me lately" league, and if BB's results have been unsatisfactory since 2018, and if the MP screw up was equivalent to a year of "tanking", and if BB's free agency spending was so poor, and if RKK is so on-top of how his team is being run, why hasn't RKK already replaced BB?

Seems to me your rhetoric is not matching reality.