How much longer will you drink the BB kool-aid?

[RodThePat]

Brady was demanding $25m per year, there was already money deferred from previous restructures, and he was 42. Eventually that cap bill comes due, and paying him $25m inhibits you from building up the rest of the roster. It was a blessing that Tom chose to leave when he did, allowing BB to blow it up the following season, then draft Mac and have some cap space.

The only way this could have been different is if we had drafted better from 2017-19. We didn't, but we're drafting better recently.

Wrong. They could have extended him the past offseason and lowered his 2020 cap hit very easily. They entered 2021 with the most cap space in football, said cap space could have been used in 2020 to strengthen the roster. They had ample margin to maneuver the cap and remained competitive while spending cash up front until Brady retired. That Bill CHOSE to use 2020 as a reset year is a function of him not vieweing Brady at that point as a guy that it would be worth going all in for another 3 seasons. But it absolutely was a choice. Had Bill wanted Brady back, they could have put a much better roster together in 2020 while using reiterated restructures to leave the brunt of cap hits for 2022-23. They didn't want to do that, which was understandable, but this narrative that they were just in cap hell and their hands were tied is utterly false.

 

[FCB02062]

if Bill the GM gets Lamar Jackson and Hopkins I'll drink a giant BORG of Belichick Kool aid

 

[Wozzy]

Wrong. They could have extended him the past offseason and lowered his 2020 cap hit very easily. They entered 2021 with the most cap space in football, said cap space could have been used in 2020 to strengthen the roster. They had ample margin to maneuver the cap and remained competitive while spending cash up front until Brady retired. That Bill CHOSE to use 2020 as a reset year is a function of him not vieweing Brady at that point as a guy that it would be worth going all in for another 3 seasons. But it absolutely was a choice. Had Bill wanted Brady back, they could have put a much better roster together in 2020 while using reiterated restructures to leave the brunt of cap hits for 2022-23. They didn't want to do that, which was understandable, but this narrative that they were just in cap hell and their hands were tied is utterly false.

They entered 2021 with the most cap space because of the decision they made in 2020 to start over... period.

That money wasn't available if they extended Brady again and kept the status quo of borrowing to go all in. This is either you being ignorant about the cap, or lying to push a false narrative.

And saying they could have done things differently with Brady's contract prior to that is nonsensical. Brady taking less money from 2014-2019 and the team kicking salary cap debt down the road is what allowed them to play in in 4 Super Bowls and win 3 of them.

So either you enjoyed the wild success they had at that time, or we go back to being the team from 2005-2013 that was good enough to be a Super Bowl contender but never actually winning one. You can't have it both ways.

 

[moosekill]

Wrong. They could have extended him the past offseason and lowered his 2020 cap hit very easily. They entered 2021 with the most cap space in football, said cap space could have been used in 2020 to strengthen the roster. They had ample margin to maneuver the cap and remained competitive while spending cash up front until Brady retired. That Bill CHOSE to use 2020 as a reset year is a function of him not vieweing Brady at that point as a guy that it would be worth going all in for another 3 seasons. But it absolutely was a choice. Had Bill wanted Brady back, they could have put a much better roster together in 2020 while using reiterated restructures to leave the brunt of cap hits for 2022-23. They didn't want to do that, which was understandable, but this narrative that they were just in cap hell and their hands were tied is utterly false.

They had the cap space because they paid their qb $1million dollars and ate the crap sandwhich they were left with in 2020. If they hadn't they wouldn't have had cap space in 2021. How is this so hard for some of you to understand? Yes they could have pushed the bill down the road another year or so, but no matter what, they weren't going to be good in 2020, regardless of who was the qb.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Wrong. They could have extended him the past offseason and lowered his 2020 cap hit very easily. They entered 2021 with the most cap space in football, said cap space could have been used in 2020 to strengthen the roster. They had ample margin to maneuver the cap and remained competitive while spending cash up front until Brady retired. That Bill CHOSE to use 2020 as a reset year is a function of him not vieweing Brady at that point as a guy that it would be worth going all in for another 3 seasons. But it absolutely was a choice. Had Bill wanted Brady back, they could have put a much better roster together in 2020 while using reiterated restructures to leave the brunt of cap hits for 2022-23. They didn't want to do that, which was understandable, but this narrative that they were just in cap hell and their hands were tied is utterly false.

There are many key facts and factors about what happened, but one of the key ones is that after our last SB win against the Rams in 2018, Kraft & BB negotiated with TB, and a key demand that Tom made in order to return in 2019 was that he not be tagged after 2019 - he wanted the flexibility to go elsewhere. Kraft publicly acknowledged that the team gave in on that point, that it was the least they could do after 18 stellar years of service. Following that, Brady played 2019 and left town immediately after. The team did not make the decision to let Brady go, Brady made the decision to leave, and it was driven by the state of the roster after 2019 (which was not good), and who knows what else (Giselle? the Dolphins thing?). It was NOT due to how much we were paying/not paying him.

Coincidentally, this was a good thing for the Patriots, even though TB was able to win another ring with a loaded Bucs team. It allowed BB to straighten things out with the cap and roster (the Cam/Covid year), then move forward with drafting Mac and spending on FA's. Also they seem to have fixed their drafting process which had yielded poor drafts in 2017-19.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

They had the cap space because they paid their qb $1million dollars and ate the crap sandwhich they were left with in 2020. If they hadn't they wouldn't have had cap space in 2021. How is this so hard for some of you to understand? Yes they could have pushed the bill down the road another year or so, but no matter what, they weren't going to be good in 2020, regardless of who was the qb.

Must listen to Felger's cap is crap. All they would have done is have to kick a bigger can down the road. I know that caps complicated but eventually you have to pay the piper, that money you kicked down the road has to go against the cap at some point. Felger used to think it would disappear, even he's admitted he was wrong. Imagine if they paid Tom 25 million for a couple more years and the bill that would be due in 2023?

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Must listen to Felger's cap is crap. All they would have done is have to kick a bigger can down the road. I know that caps complicated but eventually you have to pay the piper, that money you kicked down the road has to go against the cap at some point. Felger used to think it would disappear, even he's admitted he was wrong. Imagine if they paid Tom 25 million for a couple more years and the bill that would be due in 2023?

yeah because then the next year they need cap space so they convert half of his $25m salary to a bonus and extend his years by 1 or 2, so now you've pushed $12.5m of cap hit from the current year to a future year. It's like borrowing against your house to go on vacation.

This is why BB is pretty careful about doing that and about overpaying players in general. The cap is what you owe, it's just a question of whether you settle that each year, or instead set yourself up for a bad future year where it's impossible to do it.

 

[Ring 6]

Wrong. They could have extended him the past offseason and lowered his 2020 cap hit very easily. They entered 2021 with the most cap space in football, said cap space could have been used in 2020 to strengthen the roster. They had ample margin to maneuver the cap and remained competitive while spending cash up front until Brady retired. That Bill CHOSE to use 2020 as a reset year is a function of him not vieweing Brady at that point as a guy that it would be worth going all in for another 3 seasons. But it absolutely was a choice. Had Bill wanted Brady back, they could have put a much better roster together in 2020 while using reiterated restructures to leave the brunt of cap hits for 2022-23. They didn't want to do that, which was understandable, but this narrative that they were just in cap hell and their hands were tied is utterly false.

This is all wrong. They were capped out without paying Brady.
They spent the previous 8 years going all in, and the roster degraded. There was no magic bullet to fix 2020.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I will drink the BB Kool Aid until he does something supremely stupid like draft a Div 3 Guard in the first round, or pass on George Pickens for a WR built like Olvie Oyl.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I will drink the BB Kool Aid until he does something supremely stupid like draft a Div 3 Guard in the first round, or pass on George Pickens for a WR built like Olvie Oyl.

If you get a Guard late in the first round that starts from year 1/day 1, and is unusually athletic as well, I think that's an acceptable pick despite when the unprofessionals said he'd be picked.

And Thornton as a 2nd rounder has a little longer to prove himself, but could become more dangerous than Pickens.

 

[FCB02062]

why is bill the gm wasting $ on ST when the league is trending to fewer and fewer punt/kick returns?

 

[*ChungFu*]

Waiting on another shipment.
More grape please.

 

[crawhammer]

And Thornton as a 2nd rounder has a little longer to prove himself, but could become more dangerous than Pickens.

How's that? Pickens, taken after Thornton, had a very solid rookie season with Mitch Trubisky and a struggling rookie QB. Pickens also entered the league with an NFL ready physique.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I like Thornton at his best over Pickens at his best. That said, Pickens had a great rookie year and Thornton a disappointing one. I'm expecting Thornton to catch up to him this year.

 

[1960Pats]

why is bill the gm wasting $ on ST when the league is trending to fewer and fewer punt/kick returns?
View attachment 50557

I haven't looked at any numbers but I think those numbers would be more revealing if they broke them down separately. It doesn't seem like nearly as many kickoffs get returned as punts. If I had to guess I'd say that 75% of kickoffs don't get returned.

 

[1960Pats]

if Bill the GM gets Lamar Jackson and Hopkins I'll drink a giant BORG of Belichick Kool aid

How could B&B pass up the opportunity? We all know how much they like to pay big money for top players. Pretty soon we might be able to have a playoff record as good as the Ratbirds have had with him.
Kraft says it's Bill choice even though he knows that he wouldn't pay for him. That's Bob passing the buck to Bill when Lamar doesn't end up in NE.

 

[1960Pats]

I will drink the BB Kool Aid until he does something supremely stupid like draft a Div 3 Guard in the first round, or pass on George Pickens for a WR built like Olvie Oyl.

I'll stop drinking when Bill starts dumping HOF talent over a few dollars.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Kraft says it's Bill choice even though he knows that he wouldn't pay for him. That's Bob passing the buck to Bill when Lamar doesn't end up in NE.

Agreed 100%. So transparent. Like BB is going to agree to $250M guaranteed without RK's approval? Haha.

 

[1960Pats]

Seek help already. You are embarrassing yourself

You're no day at the beach tough guy.

It really is interesting how you and others, like @One-If-By-Sea, become so touchy when it comes to Bill. Fans here can criticize the owner as well as any player or any other coach. But damn, don't talk negative about Bill or there'll be hell to pay for sure. Bill has trained you well.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

You're no day at the beach tough guy.

It really is interesting how you and others, like @One-If-By-Sea, become so touchy when it comes to Bill. Fans here can criticize the owner as well as any player or any other coach. But damn, don't talk negative about Bill or there'll be hell to pay for sure. Bill has trained you well.

I am touchy about BB? I simply remind people to keep the TB12 stuff in the TB forum. That is not being pro-BB or anti-TB, it is simply keeping discussions on topic. I criticize BB when I think he deserves it, like his awful offense last year or his insistence on short flippant answers.