The optimistic case for Mac Jones

[Triumph]

Send out Dmac to prop up Cmac.

Dmac likes the Cam hire

Devin McCourty explains why Cam Newton is a strong fit for Patriots

When Cam Newton first became a free agent, many experts couldn’t imagine him coming to the New England Patriots. He’d never get along with head coach Bill Belichick, they said. But Newton is on his way to New England after reportedly signing a one-year, incentive-laden deal with the Patriots on...

www.nbcsports.com

Dmac - There is no "I" in Cam.

"He puts it all out on the line for the team," Patriots safety Devin McCourty told Reiss.

Damc - Still on team Cam

Devin McCourty: ‘Unfair’ to put all the blame on Cam Newton

McCourty says the Patriots continue to support the quarterback.

www.masslive.com

 

[Triumph]

The optimistic case for Mac Jones is losing in the AFC Championship Game. He just doesn’t have the arm strength to compete at a Championship level & it’s obvious to any impartial observer.

The Pats need to move on from Mac ASAP. Bring back Jimmy & field a team that can compete for Championships.

If you need to tell people the QB is good then he isn't. It will be blatantly obvious who the future NE QB is if the Pats find another.

Its like Rex telling everybody that Sanchez was special. Talk is cheap.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Mac is like leftover food in the fridge ... reheat and hope it is better the 2nd time.

 

[Wozzy]

If you need to tell people the QB is good then he isn't. It will be blatantly obvious who the future NE QB is if the Pats find another.

Its like Rex telling everybody that Sanchez was special. Talk is cheap.

You act like Mac hasn't played well before... he has.

 

[Tunescribe]

The optimistic case for Mac Jones is losing in the AFC Championship Game. He just doesn’t have the arm strength to compete at a Championship level & it’s obvious to any impartial observer.

The Pats need to move on from Mac ASAP. Bring back Jimmy & field a team that can compete for Championships.

What nonsense. And you are an "impartial observer"? Hell, a post like this wouldn't even qualify as an observation -- partial, impartial, or otherwise.

 

[sb1]

If you need to tell people the QB is good then he isn't. It will be blatantly obvious who the future NE QB is if the Pats find another.

It’s like Rex telling everybody that Sanchez was special. Talk is cheap.

Not always. Wasn’t that obvious Hurts Allen and Tua were starter material until year 3 of their careers.

 

[sb1]

Send out Dmac to prop up Cmac.

Dmac likes the Cam hire

Devin McCourty explains why Cam Newton is a strong fit for Patriots

When Cam Newton first became a free agent, many experts couldn’t imagine him coming to the New England Patriots. He’d never get along with head coach Bill Belichick, they said. But Newton is on his way to New England after reportedly signing a one-year, incentive-laden deal with the Patriots on...

www.nbcsports.com

Dmac - There is no "I" in Cam.

"He puts it all out on the line for the team," Patriots safety Devin McCourty told Reiss.

Damc - Still on team Cam

Devin McCourty: ‘Unfair’ to put all the blame on Cam Newton

McCourty says the Patriots continue to support the quarterback.

www.masslive.com

Cam is a perfect example of why the more “likeable” QB isn’t always the best one. “I don’t like Mac Jones” is not a good reason to bench the starter.

 

[Ross12]

It’s easy to put two and two together with this one. Article is a hit piece coming out the same day Mac gets supportive press saying “coaches were told to back off and not yell at Mac”. Well, didn’t we just read a big story a few weeks ago about a particular coach who was yelling a lot but didn’t know what he was talking about and was eventually told to back off and quiet down? Oh yeah, that was Joe Judge. Seems like it’s the same story but being spun from “Judge had to stop yelling because he didn’t know what he was talking about and the players didn’t like getting yelled at by an unprepared idiot” to “Judge had to stop yelling because it hurt Mac’s feelings.”

 

[Triumph]

You act like Mac hasn't played well before... he has.

You act like Mac has beat quality opponents.

He has not.

2021 Tennessee game is his claim to fame win.

 

[sb1]

The optimistic case for Mac Jones is losing in the AFC Championship Game. He just doesn’t have the arm strength to compete at a Championship level & it’s obvious to any impartial observer.

The Pats need to move on from Mac ASAP. Bring back Jimmy & field a team that can compete for Championships.

JG won’t be helping the team much on IR.

Mac’s arm is fine. He also has other attributes that he brings to the table as a QB. If arm was everything then Jarrett Stidham would be our starter today. He has a great arm and he also stinks as an NFL QB.

 

[sb1]

It’s easy to put two and two together with this one. Article is a hit piece coming out the same day Mac gets supportive press saying “coaches were told to back off and not yell at Mac”. Well, didn’t we just read a big story a few weeks ago about a particular coach who was yelling a lot but didn’t know what he was talking about and was eventually told to back off and quiet down? Oh yeah, that was Joe Judge. Seems like it’s the same story but being spun from “Judge had to stop yelling because he didn’t know what he was talking about and the players didn’t like getting yelled at by an unprepared idiot” to “Judge had to stop yelling because it hurt Mac’s feelings.”

No question this hit piece has the stench of Judge. The same clown that boasted Brady was nothing special and it was all the system and they could win a championship with any average QB.

 

[Tunescribe]

You act like Mac has beat quality opponents.

He has not.

2021 Tennessee game is his claim to fame win.

Something else you didn't know (along with most other things): Mac's run-blocking combination audibles at the LOS were key to the Patriots beating the Bills in Buffalo in 2021.

 

[Triumph]

Not always. Wasn’t that obvious Hurts Allen and Tua were starter material until year 3 of their careers.

FAIL

Hurts 2nd season as the "Guy" takes his team to the Super Bowl. He played well and KC hung on for the win by not giving Hurts the ball back because they were afraid of his ability.

Josh Allen was raw out of Wyoming. He did not come from a Pro offense, but he had all the tools to compete in the NFL. Allen has been beating Cmac like a drum.

Tua has always been hurt.

 

[sb1]

FAIL

Hurts 2nd season as the "Guy" takes his team to the Super Bowl. He played well and KC hung on for the win by not giving Hurts the ball back because they were afraid of his ability.

Josh Allen was raw out of Wyoming. He did not come from a Pro offense, but he had all the tools to compete in the NFL. Allen has been beating Cmac like a drum.

Tua has always been hurt.

So clearly it was not "blatantly obvious" that they were The Guy until year 3 of their career.

If the Patriots trade up for a top QB in this draft it won't be blatantly obvious for him either.

 

[Wozzy]

You act like Mac has beat quality opponents.

He has not.

2021 Tennessee game is his claim to fame win.

As a rookie he drove the length of the field and put his kicker in range to beat the eventual NFL champs... his kicker missed it. He did it again in the Miami game and Damien Harris fumbled on the goal line.

Teams beat teams, it's not QB versus team.

His teams haven't been good enough and he was also a rookie. After year two of Josh Allen, the fans and media called him a draft bust. Right now Josh Allen is top five on popularity lists.

Mac has shown the ability to pass the ball at an efficient level in the NFL, bad players don't do that. JaMarcus Russell never did that and he was the first overall pick.

 

[sb1]

As a rookie he drove the length of the field and put his kicker in range to beat the eventual NFL champs... his kicker missed it. He did it again in the Miami game and Damien Harris fumbled on the goal line.

Teams beat teams, it's not QB versus team.

His teams haven't been good enough and he was also a rookie. After year two of Josh Allen, the fans and media called him a draft bust. Right now Josh Allen is top five on popularity lists.

Mac has shown the ability to pass the ball at an efficient level in the NFL, bad players don't do that. JaMarcus Russell never did that and he was the first overall pick.

Arguably should have also beaten the Vikings and Bengals this season. Maybe even the Bills in Buffalo in a very emotional game for them but the defense couldn't step up.

I remember the Bills were mocked for picking the wrong Josh in the draft (Allen over Rosen).

 

[RodThePat]

As a rookie he drove the length of the field and put his kicker in range to beat the eventual NFL champs... his kicker missed it. He did it again in the Miami game and Damien Harris fumbled on the goal line.

Teams beat teams, it's not QB versus team.

His teams haven't been good enough and he was also a rookie. After year two of Josh Allen, the fans and media called him a draft bust. Right now Josh Allen is top five on popularity lists.

Mac has shown the ability to pass the ball at an efficient level in the NFL, bad players don't do that. JaMarcus Russell never did that and he was the first overall pick.

Did he? It would have been the longest kick of Nick Folk's career and it was raining, I'd argue that's not the definition of "in range", but I digress.

Mac has shown the ability to pass the ball at an efficient level in the NFL, without a doubt. He's not anywhere close to a huge bust or a guy who simply can't play in the league. But guys like Teddy Bridgewater have also shown that ability, or Nick Foles (same career ANY/A as Mac). Are they terrible players? Obviously not, but are they guys you want in your team if you're putting together a contender? No. Obviously Mac could improve and make those comparisons laughable, but that's the level of play he has displayed in his career thus far. If he improves significantly with better coaching, great, then the argument becomes how much you're willing to pay him in an extension. But there's projection involved in that, it's not a given.

 

[Wozzy]

Did he? It would have been the longest kick of Nick Folk's career and it was raining, I'd argue that's not the definition of "in range", but I digress.

Mac has shown the ability to pass the ball at an efficient level in the NFL, without a doubt. He's not anywhere close to a huge bust or a guy who simply can't play in the league. But guys like Teddy Bridgewater have also shown that ability, or Nick Foles (same career ANY/A as Mac). Are they terrible players? Obviously not, but are they guys you want in your team if you're putting together a contender? No. Obviously Mac could improve and make those comparisons laughable, but that's the level of play he has displayed in his career thus far. If he improves significantly with better coaching, great, then the argument becomes how much you're willing to pay him in an extension. But there's projection involved in that, it's not a given.

It was a decision by the coaches who were handling a rookie QB with kid gloves, not unlike their refusal to pass in the final minutes against Green Bay this season with Zappe. There was almost a minute left on the clock, they could have put the ball in Mac's hands and let him get them closer for an easier kick but they didn't want to pin the loss on him if he failed. That was the coaches decision.

Either way, he out dueled Brady and put up 320 yards passing and 2 TD's on the defense that would eventually win the Super Bowl. Mac has played much better than Josh Allen, Kirk Cousins and other very good QB's at this point in his development, and under some terrible conditions in 2022 for sure. There's projection with all rookie players, but his trajectory so far has been good... otherwise he wouldn't have been an alternate in the Pro Bowl last year. He was the best rookie QB in his draft class, and only Trevor Lawrence with better coaching has caught up to him.

 

[RodThePat]

It was a decision by the coaches who were handling a rookie QB with kid gloves, not unlike their refusal to pass in the final minutes against Green Bay this season with Zappe. There was almost a minute left on the clock, they could have put the ball in Mac's hands and let him get them closer for an easier kick but they didn't want to pin the loss on him if he failed. That was the coaches decision.

Either way, he out dueled Brady and put up 320 yards passing and 2 TD's on the defense that would eventually win the Super Bowl. Mac has played much better than Josh Allen, Kirk Cousins and other very good QB's at this point in his development, and under some terrible conditions in 2022 for sure. There's projection with all rookie players, but his trajectory so far has been good... otherwise he wouldn't have been an alternate in the Pro Bowl last year. He was the best rookie QB in his draft class, and only Trevor Lawrence with better coaching has caught up to him.

He hasn't, though. In his second year Josh Allen had a higher passer rating, QBR, ANY/A, DVOA and EPA/Play than Mac, and added 500+ rushing yards and 9 TDs on the ground. Cousins was a backup and spot starter in his second year, so not sure how fair that comparison is, but he never had a season that he began as the entrenched starter that was worse than even Mac's 2021, nevermind 2022.

I don't think the trajectory for a guy with limited athleticism that gets worse as a passer in his second year is good. Of course, a lot of that is due to coaching, but I think it's way harder to extricate their performance and Mac's than most of the fandom seems to believe it is. Either way, he goes into 2023 with a lot to prove and I don't think the level of play he's displayed thus far is anywhere near good enough. Hopefully the third year jump is significant.

 

[Wozzy]

He hasn't, though. In his second year Josh Allen had a higher passer rating, QBR, ANY/A, DVOA and EPA/Play than Mac, and added 500+ rushing yards and 9 TDs on the ground. Cousins was a backup and spot starter in his second year, so not sure how fair that comparison is, but he never had a season that he began as the entrenched starter that was worse than even Mac's 2021, nevermind 2022.

I don't think the trajectory for a guy with limited athleticism that gets worse as a passer in his second year is good. Of course, a lot of that is due to coaching, but I think it's way harder to extricate their performance and Mac's than most of the fandom seems to believe it is. Either way, he goes into 2023 with a lot to prove and I don't think the level of play he's displayed thus far is anywhere near good enough. Hopefully the third year jump is significant.

In year two Josh Allen was in one of the better programs in the NFL, Mac was playing for Bozo the clown. Here are their passing stats through two years:

Mac was better, he was better especially considering Allen was playing under optimal conditions in year two and Mac was playing under the worst conditions. Mac passed more, more accurately, scored more, had a higher efficiency rating and threw better downfield in yards per attempt.

Let's pretend for a moment Billy O'Brien is great at his job and gets the most out of Mac and the offense?