The optimistic case for Mac Jones

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Matt Cassel ranks Mac Jones among the worst QB’s in the league.

Gotta give the people what they want.


I think hes a little low If this is strictly off the last year or two but it's not terrible. He's probably ahead of Wilson, Dalton and closer to Fields and Geno than this. I'm assuming this has some projection mixed in bc of Lawrence, Watson and Fields.

His first year he was an average NFL QB (very good for a rookie) right around 15-18 and was bottom 10 last year. Not outrageous but a little low.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Gotta give the people what they want.


I think hes a little low If this is strictly off the last year or two but it's not terrible. He's probably ahead of Wilson, Dalton and closer to Fields and Geno than this. I'm assuming this has some projection mixed in bc of Lawrence, Watson and Fields.

His first year he was an average NFL QB (very good for a rookie) right around 15-18 and was bottom 10 last year. Not outrageous but a little low.

Mac's ranking is probably fair based on what happened in 2022. It's a results oriented league, he shouldn't get credit for anticipated performance that should improve with better coaching and better OL play. Watson being one better has to be very disappointing for Cleveland, same with Denver. With those contracts, they make the Jete QB situation seem manageable.

 

[Joker]

that ****ing moron Jackson shouldn't even be ranked after this season..unless it's 6th best greedy little munt playing the "injury!!!" card in an attempt tp bilk some sucker owner out of 250 million bucks. Steep price for a moron that can't read a **** and Jane 1st grade reader, never mind an NFL defence. Can't wait to see who gets suckered into watching this idiot sit on I.R. the next whatever seasons he signs for

 

[Uptown]

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Without exerting himself…lol

 

[Ollie]

Tua had a head coach with 1 game's worth of experience and he went off for 469 yards and 6 TDs against the Baltimore defense. Mac had Belichick and he managed 0 TDs and 3 INTs. This isn't just fantasy football talk either... Tua and the Dolphins won their game, Mac and the Patriots lost. QB play and game results are not just a coincidence.

Bill wasn't calling Macs offense Patrica was and MCdaniels was calling Tua's offense so i don't think you can make a direct comparison even though you keep trying. Also as mentioned before the personel is very different. Coaching and weapons matter. I have no idea if Mac can be the guy but using last year to make any meaningful assessment is pointless.

 

[crawhammer]

Gotta give the people what they want.

This list is really good (it's almost identical to my list). The top 8 are really obvious and anyone who knows what they're talking about for sure has the top 6 here in some order.

9-16 is pretty accurate too. Although, Prescott is too high and Carr may be more accurately in the top of the bottom half. Tua should be higher unless you're factoring in concussions.

17-24 is too low for Watson, he's going to be much more effective in 2023 after a regular full off-season. Garoppolo must be in this range due to likelihood of injury so in that respect it's accurate. Murray is another injury-factored ranking. In fact almost everyone is this range has an injury-factored ranking.

25-32 is the rubbish isle. Most of these quarterbacks aren't even legitimate NFL starters. Pickett probably belongs here now but he'll be moving up next season. Cassel follows the Patriots pretty closely, and he's usually fairly generous in his assessment of Mac, so it's pretty bad news for Patriots fans to find Mac this low where he belongs (for now anyway).

 

[crawhammer]

I have no idea if Mac can be the guy but using last year to make any meaningful assessment is pointless.

My idea is Mac can be average, which isn't going to be good enough in this conference. And you can't just throw out 2022, he didn't play well, and even if Patricia put him in a hole, he still has to dig (or be dug) out of it. And it's not a given that that will entirely happen.

 

[Ollie]

My idea is Mac can be average, which isn't going to be good enough in this conference. And you can't just throw out 2022, he didn't play well, and even if Patricia put him in a hole, he still has to dig (or be dug) out of it. And it's not a given that that will entirely happen.

Sure you can't just throw out 2022 but the circumstances have to provide some context, we now know what Mac would look like with no OC and tackles that don't know how to block that's going to be helpful i guess .

I do think Mac has to shoulder some blame as i think he probably checked out mentally quite early on when it was apparent it was a ****show. The fact that every single player backs Mac 100% i think demonstrates that they understand what a bad situation he was put in.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Zappe needs another chance.

The offense responded to him and he has acted like a Pro through all of this.

You state, "Corky's arm is not OK", and in your next post state, "Zappe needs another chance". Zappe's arm is weaker than Corky's. Why don't you give it a rest?

 

[Triumph]

You state, "Corky's arm is not OK", and in your next post state, "Zappe needs another chance". Zappe's arm is weaker than Corky's. Why don't you give it a rest?

Zappe has started 2 games and played in 4 games.

Idiotic to close the door on Zappe with so little information. The peanut gallery is telling me that Jones arm is great while also saying that Zappes arm is worst.

 

[Ollie]

Zappe has started 2 games and played in 4 games.

Idiotic to close the door on Zappe with so little information. The peanut gallery is telling me that Jones arm is great while also saying that Zappes arm is worst.

Stop making stuff up. Literally no one has said his arm is great. And regarding Zappe the team has much more information about hwat he is capable of than all of us combined

 

[RIpats88]

I will just throw this out there that Bailey Zappe can improve form one year to the next it's not far fetched.

And Mac can improve from year 2 to year 3. Does anyone else realize how ridiculous these arguments sound from the zappe crowd?

Discount that there's any chance that Mac can improve but then make the argument that zappe CAN improve.

Say one bad bears game isn't enough to evaluate zappe. Yet one good game against the browns and an ok game against Detroit where he did nothing is enough to evaluate zappe.

 

[RIpats88]

My idea is Mac can be average, which isn't going to be good enough in this conference. And you can't just throw out 2022, he didn't play well, and even if Patricia put him in a hole, he still has to dig (or be dug) out of it. And it's not a given that that will entirely happen.

Has anyone on this board ever said Mac doesn't have to dig himself out of a hole and prove himself with O'Brien? I don't think so.

You can't throw it out but given all we know you can't use 2022 as a normal barometer. The dysfunction in the offense goes beyond what is Normal. Everyone regressed on offense. It needs to be taken with context. They weren't running an NFL caliber offense.

Bills actions by getting rid of Patricia, hiring O'Brien and so far sticking with Mac for year 3. Kind of tell you what the coaching staff and ownership thinks.

 

[Wozzy]

Brady's club isn't open for new members.

Yeah, there’s been a really lot of great QB’s since Chuck Noll’s Steelers won 4 championships. It’s funny how Chuck is revered, especially since Terry Bradshaw never led the league in passing once or wars considered close to the best QB in the league at that time.

 

[sb1]

Yet one good game against the browns a

And I wonder how good that game really was. Was it really Zappe or should his receivers get more credit? Zappe had just under 7 YAC per completion. That's a big number. Stretched out to a full season that would put him just behind Jimmy G for the most in the league. Nobody else is close.

 

[Wozzy]

I think this is a fair assessment. The Bucs were fairly loaded with a lot of rookie deal stars and hit huge with Wirfs and Winfield. Then adding Gronk and AB really tipped the balance.

All that said, I think that puts then in a tier of really good teams (not including QB) along with the Saints and Packers. Those teams also had a lot of talent around Brees and Rodgers. I don’t think the Bucs were necessarily better than those teams top to bottom, and they weren’t a real “super team” but they were damn good and obviously good enough to go the distance with an elite QB. The 2021 team was really snakebitten by injuries and probably would have repeated had they not lost so many key players down the stretch.

However, I don't think the Bucs had the best weapons in the NFL with Evans/Godwin/Howard. That's a very good trio, but it's hyperbole to act like a lot of teams don't have a few very good skill players. Evans and Godwin are both fringe stars...not really all-pro types, and Howard wasn't even being used much....Brate is closer to a JAG than a star.

I’m still trying to process Mike Evans and Chris Godwin being "fringe stars" at the WR position… my brain is literally smoking trying to compute.

Just for clarification, the Buc’s led the NFL in passing yards in 2018 as well, with a half a season of Ryan Fitzpatrick and half Winston. I guess they were just really lucky…

 

[sb1]

Zappe has started 2 games and played in 4 games.

Idiotic to close the door on Zappe with so little information. The peanut gallery is telling me that Jones arm is great while also saying that Zappes arm is worst.

That's the same argument we heard from the Stidham-ites. Looks like Bill made the right call on that one.

Bill sees his players in practice every day. He knows what he's got.

 

[archstanton543]

That's the same argument we heard from the Stidham-ites. Looks like Bill made the right call on that one.

Bill sees his players in practice every day. He knows what he's got.

He sees his coaches every day and yet stuck with Matt and Judge all last season.

 

[Wozzy]

Winston led the NFL in INTs (33!) not TDs. The NFL leader in passing TDs that season was the quarterback who you say "can't throw the ball"... Lamar Jackson. You know, the NFL MVP, as a quarterback.

Yeah, someone else already pointed out Winston did lead the league in passing yards but was only 2nd in TD’s.

Lamar Jackson led the NFL postseason in turnovers and got bounced in the first round that year. Oh yeah, he also ranked 26th in pass attempts and 22nd in yards because his coaches already knew what other teams had to figure out. That was the last time he was good, 2019, before teams got film on him and realized he couldn’t actually pass from the pocket.

No coincidentally the Bucs QB’s Fitzpatrick and Winston split games in 2018 and led the NFL in passing yards that season as well. They were only 3rd in passing TD’s though… it’s clear the Bucs weapons weren’t very good… it must have been Fitzmagic. Laughable…