The optimistic case for Mac Jones

[Steve102]

If Tom was here he would have lost his ****.

If he was here, FM/JJ never would have been in those positions. He wouldn't have sat for it.

 

[sb1]

Zappe's Senior Bowl was a showcase of his weak arm. As was his second INT against the Bears. A guy with his college stats fell to the 4th round for a reason.

It's Mac's job to lose, and it should be.

 

[Triumph]

He's got a worse arm than Mac - so if you're hoping for better there, he's not there yet. Maybe that'll change, but that wasn't the case this past season.

No

His numbers are better in every category except "passes batted down" and that can be corrected.

No Alabama rainbow here.

 

[sb1]

No

His numbers are better in every category except "passes batted down" and that can be corrected.

No Alabama rainbow here.

Routine throw. He doesn't have the arm to hit someone in a tight window.

 

[Triumph]

Zappe's Senior Bowl was a showcase of his weak arm. As was his second INT against the Bears. A guy with his college stats fell to the 4th round for a reason.

It's Mac's job to lose, and it should be.

Corky the INT thrower with 11 including the one vs the Bears that got him benched.

So, he whined to Kraft about it.

 

[Triumph]

Routine throw. He doesn't have the arm to hit someone in a tight window.

HAHAHA

Look at all the videos on Corky throwing into coverage.

 

[sb1]

Corky the INT thrower with 11 including the one vs the Bears that got him benched.

So, he whined to Kraft about it.

Obviously Bill gave it some thought and decided to bench Zappe after the game since he's been watching both guys in practice. And rightfully so IMO. Doesn't have the arm to be an NFL QB and showed nothing in those 4 games that warranted giving him the starting job.

Was the same story with Stidham. We didn't need to see him play in a game. He sucks and Bill knew it.

 

[Wozzy]

I thought it's all about "team"? Now you're saying a "mega team" is only worth 7 wins without an elite quarterback. Good point actually, Brady took a 7-win mega team and turned them into a Super Bowl champion in one season. You're finally catching on.

There's been 10 teams since 2015 that averaged over 2 turnovers offensively per game, how many of them have been 500 or better?

Zero was the answer. The average number of wins of all these teams was four.

The 2015 Bucs had the most turnovers of all ten teams (41) and they had the best record at 7-9 of all ten teams.

Jameis Winston's 30 Interceptions in 2019 is tied for 6th worst in NFL history. His 12 fumbles was tied for 5th worst in the NFL that season. That team was dead last in total turnovers in 2019, the majority of which was caused by the one guy most responsible for protecting the ball... the QB.

Also in 2019 the Bucs drafted two talented CB’s who ended up starting, by 2020 they had a season of experience under their belts and had improved mightily. But not turning the ball over at a historic rate was the massive improvement.

 

[sb1]

HAHAHA

Look at all the videos on Corky throwing into coverage.

That video you posted wasn't a flex. Even Nathan Peterman could have done that. Routine throw. His scouting report even said he doesn't have the arm to hit guys in tight windows like he ought to do in the NFL and that limits his viability as a starter. Their words.

Mac has hit tight windows and I expect him to be even better at it in 2023. The bar is higher now.

 

[sb1]

I suspect the #TeamZappe crowd aren't really pro-Zappe all that much...they're more #TeamAnyoneButMac. That's fair. Mac needs to prove himself this year or the Patriots need to move on.

 

[Ian]

No

His numbers are better in every category except "passes batted down" and that can be corrected.

No Alabama rainbow here.

We already did this.

Two throws, both air distance of 20yds (Zappe's is 21). Jones is nearly flat footed and fires a throw without needing to take much of a step, Zappe had to crow-hop and gun it:





Again, Mac had a full offseason and a year headstart on Zappe to get stronger. Maybe that will change, but Mac does have the edge strength-wise.

 

[Ian]

Sort of kills the "first read" thing also. Jones looks left and comes back across before making that throw.

Needless to say, I'm still hoping for better in 2023, but Jones isn't as bad as people continue to say he is.

 

[crawhammer]

Evans and Godwin were probably the best pair of receivers Brady ever played with

Brady didn't play with great WRs for the majority of his time in New England. But the best duo he ever had in his entire career was Moss and Welker in 2007.

The best WR he ever played with was Moss by a wide margin. Unfortunately his time with Moss was very short... the historic 2007 season, 2009 when coming back from the ACL, and a few games in 2010. Had Brady had 5-7 full seasons with Moss he would have won more NFL MVPs.

One of the more underrated aspects of Brady's career is the incredible passing numbers he put up with less than elite WR talent.

 

[Ollie]

Corky the INT thrower with 11 including the one vs the Bears that got him benched.

So, he whined to Kraft about it.

You respond to someone questioning Zappes arm strength by moaning about Macs interceptions? Its like playground sometimes on here.

 

[crawhammer]

Tampa's success was hardly all about Brady -- other than his recruiting cachet that brought the GOAT TE out of retirement.

Other than Brady replaced undisciplined QB play with elite, clutch QB play. Other than he also recruited several key players to their Super Bowl run. Other than he brought an all time winning confidence to a franchise with the worst winning percentage in professional team sports.

Did he have teammates? Yes. Were they a factor? Yes. Coaching staff? Yes, obviously. But all of it doesn't amount to a Super Bowl championship without one person... Tom Brady. Which is also obvious.

 

[Ian]

Corky the INT thrower with 11 including the one vs the Bears that got him benched.

So, he whined to Kraft about it.

You respond to someone questioning Zappes arm strength by moaning about Macs interceptions? Its like playground sometimes on here.

Clearly, there was a big imprvement down the stretch compared to his first four starts:


Jones threw five picks in the last 10 games, with three of them obviously coming against Buffalo:

 

[crawhammer]

Jameis Winston's 30 Interceptions in 2019 is tied for 6th worst in NFL history. His 12 fumbles was tied for 5th worst in the NFL that season. That team was dead last in total turnovers in 2019, the majority of which was caused by the one guy most responsible for protecting the ball... the QB.

That's right, brother. The 2019 Bucs season was ruined by their QB. The 2020 Bucs season was made championship caliber by their QB.

 

[crawhammer]

I suspect the #TeamZappe crowd aren't really pro-Zappe all that much...they're more #TeamAnyoneButMac. That's fair. Mac needs to prove himself this year or the Patriots need to move on.

Mac wasn't good last season. Anyone can twist themselves into a pretzel trying to excuse it away or try to make it look like it wasn't really all that bad. But it was.

Ok, blame it all on Patricia (who is BB's fault), whatever, O'Brien has been brought in to get everything back on track like 2022 never happened. But if it doesn't entirely work out, or Mac continues to struggle, then surely there will be more excuses made. Already in the queue is "it's just Mac's first season under O'Brien so we need to give it at least another season."

I'm keeping my eye on the WR depth chart this off-season. With Mac's limitations, it'll have to be well above average for the passing game to be good. Mac's not elevating an average WR corps with or without O'Brien.

 

[Steve102]

We already did this.

Two throws, both air distance of 20yds (Zappe's is 21). Jones is nearly flat footed and fires a throw without needing to take much of a step, Zappe had to crow-hop and gun it:





Again, Mac had a full offseason and a year headstart on Zappe to get stronger. Maybe that will change, but Mac does have the edge strength-wise.

All of this stuff is anecdotal at best. We cannot tell how much smoke either of these guys put on these throws. I think it's safe to say neither has a cannon along the likes of Josh Allen, Jim Kelly, Jeff George (yuck), Brett Favre or Dan Marino. The question is whether or not they have an NFL caliber arm.

 

[Wozzy]

Baltimore knows they suck without Lamar. They offered him a massive contract, but because they didn't guarantee every penny, Lamar told them to take a walk. I hope he gets tagged and traded but Baltimore will probably cave in first and give him what he wants (unless he's dead set on never playing another down in a Ravens uniform).

Baltimore built their entire offense around a running QB, if they didn’t they can hire a guy who can actually pass.

Many teams have a better option than Tyler Huntley and I’d assume if Baltimore moved on from LJ they’d hire someone else.