Content Post Words on things I watched, read & heard II

[p8ryts]

Off the top of my head, Hannah, Tippett, Law, and Seymour spent all or most of their careers with the Pats. Mike Haynes spent half of his career with them, and Buoniconti, Moss, and Seau played for a couple of years or more each. I think that’s the Pats contingent in the HOF. Obviously Brady and BB will join them at some point, probably Gronk as well, and I hope Wilfork, Harrison, and Vinatieri also. Sadly I think certain guys I think of as credible candidates, such as Gino Cappelletti, Stanley Morgan, Troy Brown, Willie McGinest, and Tedy Bruschi will not make it.

There are no real criteria that I know of for election to the HOF, so it comes down to the attitudes of the certain writers and other people they’ve put on their committees. That means there will be politics and prejudices involved (“OK I’ll vote for you guy if you vote for my guy”) no matter the configuration of the voting population. Personally I’d prefer to see them eliminate the writers entirely as I consider most of them to be ignoramuses, but relying on former NFL players, coaches, and executives may increase the prejudice factor.

in the end I think we have to accept that we may be disappointed when guys we loved don’t make it and not denigrate those who did.

I only consider Hannah, Tippett, Law, and Seymour as Patriots in the Hall of Fame. Buonoconti played here several years and was great but made his bones in Miami, same with Haynes. Moss, Seau, and Revis were just mercenaries.

 

[Sfpat]

Haynes was drafted by the Pats and was HOF caliber player with the Pats. IMO, he can be considered a Pat

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Post-Bowl(s) / Draft dump.


This tackle class is sort of split between low ceiling/NFL ready prospects and athletic prototypes you need to coach up to see that roi if selecting them that high. Johnson is NFL ready but needs a good amount of technique work as does Harrison and Broderick Jones (hands in pp and footwork for both in both rb/pp) All three are athletic as hell but you'll need a strong OL coach that knows what he's doing to help hit their peaks. Then you have guys like Dawand Jones, Darnell Wright, Bergeron. A few others fall into either category like Steen (needs work with hands big time) Peter Skoronski (NFL ready although i see length issues all over the place with him on tape, i think hes a G) etc

Skoronski is a fantastic prospect i just have my doubts about playing tackle with his length issues and tendency to get front loaded. has great footwork, very clean, balanced, quick feet. His lateral movements are great. Can handle business at the los before climbing and clearing. Quick active hands. I think he could be a great guard.

I love Wrights hands as much as anyone in the class. Independent, active, heavy, feints. He handled and erased some great prospects - 1st RD picks. Versatile, played both T spots and could play RG in a pinch. Natural strength and toughness that shows every game. People mover with some flexibility. Him and Onwenu would be destroyers at almost 700 lbs. You have to hide him a little when it comes to stretch plays, space bc he is a little tight but every one of these guys has plenty of concerns. He's NFL ready and could definitely improve on a few things - could be more balanced in pp and lose a little weight. Everyone's darling now. He's a good one.

Harrison and Broderick Jones are extremely athletic with a lot of potential but need a lot of technique work - hands and feet in both areas. Like Jones is disconnected at times trying to use both properly. Harrison needs to be more consistent with his hand usage and staying with blocks while his lower half is a bit tight could improve on his footwork while engaged. Both are really nice pieces of clay to work with though. Paris Johnson is similar but more ready in pp and other areas. Needs a lot of work but he should be able to handle himself in pp early on and


I'm intrigued to see which teams value which prospects.

A lot depends on Trent Brown here. Can he give us another year of average play with spurts of above average mixed in? That's about the best you could hope for realistically. If he can play either spot for a year that gives us some flexibility but long term we need multiple tackles. Just speaking in terms of top 75-100 picks and addressing immediate needs.


If I'm looking at tackle early I'm either landing Johnson at 14 or a very small trade up within a few spots or trading back. Paris is probably the only guy I'm taking at 14. Whether L or R, you'll have 4-5 prospects sitting there between 20 - 40 in Brod Jones, Harrison, Bergeron, D Jones and Wright. Get an extra pick and select your favorite out of them.


WR might the second most important position in the game and we've been missing a true X and shifty/quick slot for a long time now. Our Slot and Z perform a lot of the same roles so I try to keep that in mind.


X

Quentin Johnston - Looks like a twitchier Tee Higgins at times but has a little bit to go before getting there. He will be WR1on draft day. Value doesnt equal 14 rn imo, more in the 20's but it is what it is. With proper coaching he could be a 1100/8 guy. We have guys on the books but we all know we need an upgrade. I've been seeing Higgins getting traded everywhere in the media and am happy to say I was hoping the Pats would long before themBack to Johnston though. He's a big boy that's electric on the move. Violent stops and starts - fakes. Showcases real suddenness at times. Play speed varies at times but hes a lightening bolt more often than not. Especially off crossers or something where he can get some steam going. He moves without losing speed for the most part. Yac monster and turns 50/50 into 70/30. Rare skill set for a guy his size. Potential as a rr but he needs work on developing a full, consistent tree. He's a lot more comfortable running certain routes (curls/comeback, go, fade). That said they didnt ask him to run a full tree. So its not to say he cant. He'll have his work cut out for him vs press against NFL corners at first imo. And hands needs some real attention too. Double catches and fights the ball when he doesn't need to. Big ceiling though. Mention it before but I see potential for a slightly twitchier Tee Higgins. If there's anyone worth gambling on in the 1st it's him. RD 1


Cedric Tillman would be the discount version like Zay Flowers to Jordan Addison I suppose. Like Johnston needs work as a rr and developing his route tree but gives you size + yac outside. At times physical at the catch point. Good tracker. Can play X and give you some athleticism and speed outside. Again like Q he needs to work on getting off against press. Big ceiling but needs big work. RD 3


Rashee Rice is a tough sob that will stick on a team somewhere bc hes 6'2, good possession WR, contested rec WR and will block his ass off all game long. Tough kid that just works works works. He could play some big slot roles but would probably be used and tried as an X first. He'll definitely be on my list. RD 2


Dontay Demus is a big boy that looks like the prototype at 6'4/215 rocked up with 34" arms. High-cut a bit inconsistent in/out of his breaks but he can throttle down and explode out. Youll see a few extra steps at the top of his routes. He needs to add some personal touch to his routes again especially at the top. Every WR adds a tiny bit of it to their routes to make it work. That and blocking are his biggest hurdles. Effort is there for blocking buy he loses technique at times the longer he has to sustain. Sometimes it's a mess from the start. He has potential there. Now some good. He has some serious straight line speed. CB are well aware and play him with it in mind. He'll eat up cushions with ease and fight through press. He can stretch the field on fades, outs - outside and up the seam in the MOF. Very comfortable there isn't afraid of contact. Times up contested catches very well. Uses strong hands, long arms well. He needs development but he's far from a project. RD 4


AT Perry is decent consultation prize at the X spot. Bigger version of Parker Washington in the sense that both thrive against off/zone coverage. Both have trouble against physical press/man. That's where the similarities end but watching them it stood out. He's what you'd think he is at 6'5 but needs to put on some real muscle and add some strength. Plus overall in contested catch situations but should be better at "bodying" DB and using his frame. Also timing up that jump, attacking the ball at its highest point will absolutely need to improve. DB are too good nowadays and some are excellent at breaking up passes. Specifically waiting for certain points. Bama and other NFL teams teach there guys to catch and raise as opposed to bring it to the body and this is a perfect case of lack of coaching. Perry is playmaker in space. Long strider that gets up to speed quickly even though he's not a true burner with long speed. Good job using tempo though to his advantage along with other rr tricks to use to his advanced. Almost 38" vert with 34" arms. His blocking has to improve to really help him stay on the field. Its a weak point for sure. Has shown leadership qualities since HS. MOF monster that thrives there. From coaches to players he gets praised for putting the team first and #Possible WR3/4. RD 4


Jonathan Mingo is an interesting "boom or bust" prospect. Arguably the best blocker in the class with TE experience and attitude. Dude makes it a point to make an impact in that area. Strong af. Big RB in a WR body. Decent tracking ability but has little feel or awareness in route. Rn he's a potential possession WR with some yac. His attitude effort blocking ability and strength are what gets him on the field. I think he could be a potential ST contributor. Has trouble against press, again no feel as a rr, small tree but he has some tools to work with if you have coaching. And again could help on ST where he wouldn't have to think as much. RD 4-5


Michael Wilson is a potential stud ST and part-time do it all WR that can contribute in qall three spots. He'll never be a WR1 or even 2 imo bc at least rn has trouble against NFL caliber CB that can press/reroute but he could be a good WR3/4 you selectively matchup. Experience on all ST units. Plus blocker with soft hands and tracking ability. He sees the ball into his hands. He'll be a fine addition to some team. RD 3-4


Dontayvion Wicks is someone I really like. Think he has low-end WR2/WR3 ability. Very physical from the line, catch point, yac. He's got some nice releases off the line and has some quick twitch. Reliable at the catch point even though he's not 6'5. Times it up very well. Knows where he's going, how to get there and set up his defender. Doesn't lose speed throughout route. Natural game speed and threat with the ball in his hands. Very good running fades for 6'1 ish - near the sideline but also knows how to get open in the MOF. Tough kid coming back from an injury recently. RD 3

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Z/Slot
alin Hyatt is someone who reminds me of a cross between a faster Devonta Smith and Will Fuller. Very graceful, effortless runner. Isn't afraid to get physical when ask to block. Like Smith he'll always be on the smaller side but he's a football player through and through. Like Slim reaper always tries to us his hands when catching. Knack for catching in stride. And his strides are very powerful like Fuller. Just gets up to a different speed easy. The best separator thus past year. Ideal Z, deep slot. Looks a lot more game ready than Thornton if we're still looking that way. RD 1


Jayden Reed is another guy I really like that I believe will go higher than some think. Precise footwork. Shifty hips. Very good rr. That's an understatement. He's knows how to get open. How to exploit CB weaknesses. Has some nuance to his game. You don't throw consistent fades to a 6'/185 lb WR without a lot of trust. Great job high pointing. Won't be a consistent 50/50 threat but he does a great job timing up a ball and using his body to shield defenders from his catch point. Plus play speed. He'll make someone very happy after the 2nd. RD 3-4



JSN is incredibly shifty, elusive and has a great IQ. Oily hips, efficient steps and again a very good football IQ. All help make up for the lack of long speed but he's got a nice little burst and is never taken down by the first guy. He's got a toolbox of things he can pull out to separate though. He'll never be a consistently deep threat but has np separating bc of his fakes, feints and efficiency in his movement. No wasted steps. Plus run blocker and natural hands. Arguably the best rr in the class. He's going to make a nice living in the slot next level. RD 1/2


Nathaniel Dell is everyone's favorite. For good reason when you look at his film. Competition isn't that great and he'll always be small but he's a turbo charged smaller Jarrett. Electric in small spaces. Plus acceleration and COD. He'll never be your real WR2 or maybe even 3 but a real threat with schemed touches, occasional deep shots and with use of motion. He's shown he can beat press on occasion in different spaces (game and bowl). RD 4


Kayshon Boutte is a curious case. Looked like a mini Chase at times a few years ago but definitely took a step back this past year after coming back from injury. When healthy he's got a nice blend of elusiveness, twitch and power. RB with the ball in his hands. Runs right through arm tackles like they're not there. Plus contact balance. Track background. Alpha mentality. Good sideline awareness, good instincts. If he's truly healthy he can play anywhere but probably has his highest ceiling split between Z and Slot. Definitely worth a shot after RD 2

Xavier Hutchinson looks like an X and can play there but has the skill set and size of a Z/big slot. Where i think he'll find more success. Think he'll be a fine addition to a team as a motion guy, again he can play anywhere in a pinch. Good hands, toughness, catch radius and rr. He climbed from juco and still has some room to grow. RD 3-4


Josh Downs grew on me once I really watched his film. He's limited in some areas - blocking, size/how he'll do against press, usage/slot only? That said he's explosive, sudden and has real play speed - 4.4 with an athletic background. Can't really work through contact yet at a fast enough speed to win but he gets up to speed very quickly and can stop on a dime. He's one of the better rr in the class in terms of using tempo and pace in his stem/route. Uses leverage and pace to beat man. Patience and IQ to cut through zone. Limited but what he does well he does very well. RD 2-3


I'm really warming up to Addison later in the 1st but wish we had a true big body to really complement him. His rr is very impressive particularly when he restems or adjust in route. No wasted movements, fluid hips. Wins a lot bc of those traits. Can do damage at all three levels. Lives in CB blind spot. Very good at attacking weaknesses. Had real trouble against press at both schools so he's a Z/Slot fit to a T. Overall one of the better rr in the class. RD 1/2


Rakim Jarrett is someone I've had my eye on for a minute now. Discount Boutte - not as powerful but will break arm tackles off screens. Decent tracking ability. Average hands. Decent rr. He's slippery, quick, has good play speed, gives you yac. Fits any scheme imo as slot/big slot/occasional Z. RD 3-4


Marvin Mims has been discussed a few times I'm just not sure where the fit is if this group remains intact. Mainly Agholor unless you really believe in Mims. They essentially would fill the same role as a vert slot, part-time Z. Mims has silly acceleration and speed though. He was schemed touches bc of speed and aggressiveness with the ball in his hands. Return value. An option if someone leaves. RD 3-4

Parker Washington is a slot bully that thrives against cutting up zone coverage. Not much of a threat against premium man CB next level imo. Limited athleticism after his quick feet, first step. Plus hands you can count on. His team obviously trust him, going to him in high leverage situations. Tough kid but limited. RD 5

Jalen Moreno-Cropper is an interesting prospect in the mid-late rounds that few talk about. Unlike Washington he has a lot more success against man. He's quick and has some twitch, some suddenness with limited long speed. Good pacing and patience to his routes. Small at 5'10/170 but tough to touch and get hands on initially. RD 4

 

[Patsgofor4]

Z/Slot
alin Hyatt is someone who reminds me of a cross between a faster Devonta Smith and Will Fuller. Very graceful, effortless runner. Isn't afraid to get physical when ask to block. Like Smith he'll always be on the smaller side but he's a football player through and through. Like Slim reaper always tries to us his hands when catching. Knack for catching in stride. And his strides are very powerful like Fuller. Just gets up to a different speed easy. The best separator thus past year. Ideal Z, deep slot. Looks a lot more game ready than Thornton if we're still looking that way. RD 1


Jayden Reed is another guy I really like that I believe will go higher than some think. Precise footwork. Shifty hips. Very good rr. That's an understatement. He's knows how to get open. How to exploit CB weaknesses. Has some nuance to his game. You don't throw consistent fades to a 6'/185 lb WR without a lot of trust. Great job high pointing. Won't be a consistent 50/50 threat but he does a great job timing up a ball and using his body to shield defenders from his catch point. Plus play speed. He'll make someone very happy after the 2nd. RD 3-4



JSN is incredibly shifty, elusive and has a great IQ. Oily hips, efficient steps and again a very good football IQ. All help make up for the lack of long speed but he's got a nice little burst and is never taken down by the first guy. He's got a toolbox of things he can pull out to separate though. He'll never be a consistently deep threat but has np separating bc of his fakes, feints and efficiency in his movement. No wasted steps. Plus run blocker and natural hands. Arguably the best rr in the class. He's going to make a nice living in the slot next level. RD 1/2


Nathaniel Dell is everyone's favorite. For good reason when you look at his film. Competition isn't that great and he'll always be small but he's a turbo charged smaller Jarrett. Electric in small spaces. Plus acceleration and COD. He'll never be your real WR2 or maybe even 3 but a real threat with schemed touches, occasional deep shots and with use of motion. He's shown he can beat press on occasion in different spaces (game and bowl). RD 4


Kayshon Boutte is a curious case. Looked like a mini Chase at times a few years ago but definitely took a step back this past year after coming back from injury. When healthy he's got a nice blend of elusiveness, twitch and power. RB with the ball in his hands. Runs right through arm tackles like they're not there. Plus contact balance. Track background. Alpha mentality. Good sideline awareness, good instincts. If he's truly healthy he can play anywhere but probably has his highest ceiling split between Z and Slot. Definitely worth a shot after RD 2

Xavier Hutchinson looks like an X and can play there but has the skill set and size of a Z/big slot. Where i think he'll find more success. Think he'll be a fine addition to a team as a motion guy, again he can play anywhere in a pinch. Good hands, toughness, catch radius and rr. He climbed from juco and still has some room to grow. RD 3-4


Josh Downs grew on me once I really watched his film. He's limited in some areas - blocking, size/how he'll do against press, usage/slot only? That said he's explosive, sudden and has real play speed - 4.4 with an athletic background. Can't really work through contact yet at a fast enough speed to win but he gets up to speed very quickly and can stop on a dime. He's one of the better rr in the class in terms of using tempo and pace in his stem/route. Uses leverage and pace to beat man. Patience and IQ to cut through zone. Limited but what he does well he does very well. RD 2-3


I'm really warming up to Addison later in the 1st but wish we had a true big body to really complement him. His rr is very impressive particularly when he restems or adjust in route. No wasted movements, fluid hips. Wins a lot bc of those traits. Can do damage at all three levels. Lives in CB blind spot. Very good at attacking weaknesses. Had real trouble against press at both schools so he's a Z/Slot fit to a T. Overall one of the better rr in the class. RD 1/2


Rakim Jarrett is someone I've had my eye on for a minute now. Discount Boutte - not as powerful but will break arm tackles off screens. Decent tracking ability. Average hands. Decent rr. He's slippery, quick, has good play speed, gives you yac. Fits any scheme imo as slot/big slot/occasional Z. RD 3-4


Marvin Mims has been discussed a few times I'm just not sure where the fit is if this group remains intact. Mainly Agholor unless you really believe in Mims. They essentially would fill the same role as a vert slot, part-time Z. Mims has silly acceleration and speed though. He was schemed touches bc of speed and aggressiveness with the ball in his hands. Return value. An option if someone leaves. RD 3-4

Parker Washington is a slot bully that thrives against cutting up zone coverage. Not much of a threat against premium man CB next level imo. Limited athleticism after his quick feet, first step. Plus hands you can count on. His team obviously trust him, going to him in high leverage situations. Tough kid but limited. RD 5

Jalen Moreno-Cropper is an interesting prospect in the mid-late rounds that few talk about. Unlike Washington he has a lot more success against man. He's quick and has some twitch, some suddenness with limited long speed. Good pacing and patience to his routes. Small at 5'10/170 but tough to touch and get hands on initially. RD 4

Thanks for these insights. Do you think that Hyatt and Thornton would be too redundant in terms of their strengths and potential roles? Hyatt may be the better player, but they certainly aren’t going to give up on Thornton yet (nor should they).

I don’t want them to draft either Flowers or JSN, I NEED them to draft one of them…..but 14 is too high, so my ideal scenario is for them to draft their top-rated LT or CB at 14 and then get aggressive by trading up into the late 1st, to grab one of those two WRs, to fill the Edelman role for Mac. Reed and Downs, in that order, would be my favorite consolation prizes (I know that Reed offers a different skillset than the other three but I agree that he is going to be a very good pro).

 

[rochrist]

I'm confused about why so many people are high on the 5'11" 172-pound Flowers after the hue and cry over a 181-pound Thornton.

 

[Jim Beankie]

I'm confused about why so many people are high on the 5'11" 172-pound Flowers after the hue and cry over a 181-pound Thornton.

Flowers was recently 5'9.25" / 182lbs per the official Shrine Bowl weigh in, so he's not skinny. Same BMI at TT's height (6'2.4") would be 210lbs.

 

[rochrist]

Flowers was recently 5'9.25" / 182lbs per the official Shrine Bowl weigh in, so he's not skinny. Same BMI at TT's height (6'2.4") would be 210lbs.

The NFL Draft Network has him 5 11, 172. NFL Draft Buzz DOES have him at 182 and 5 9. But, downside, 5 9. Also not in love with his drop rate at BC.

 

[upstater1]

I only consider Hannah, Tippett, Law, and Seymour as Patriots in the Hall of Fame. Buonoconti played here several years and was great but made his bones in Miami, same with Haynes. Moss, Seau, and Revis were just mercenaries.

On Haynes, it's a bit of an odd comment. He made All-Pro 6x with the Patriots. Only 3x with the Raiders. He played a lot more games with the Patriots, the equivalent of 6 full seasons, but only 4 with the Raiders. He more than doubled the amount of INTs with the Patriots than he had with the Raiders.

 

[DaBruinz]

Thanks for these insights. Do you think that Hyatt and Thornton would be too redundant in terms of their strengths and potential roles? Hyatt may be the better player, but they certainly aren’t going to give up on Thornton yet (nor should they).

I don’t want them to draft either Flowers or JSN, I NEED them to draft one of them…..but 14 is too high, so my ideal scenario is for them to draft their top-rated LT or CB at 14 and then get aggressive by trading up into the late 1st, to grab one of those two WRs, to fill the Edelman role for Mac. Reed and Downs, in that order, would be my favorite consolation prizes (I know that Reed offers a different skillset than the other three but I agree that he is going to be a very good pro).

The Pats have too many other needs than taking a WR early unless they sign one of the big name OTs. Without that, there is no way can wait beyond the 2nd round to draft an OT and a CB.. They aren't going to get a 2nd as part of a trade back unless someone is desperate. Taking a CB outside the 2nd round provides depth for the loss of Jon Jones, but doesn't give them someone of the caliber of Witherspoon or Cam Smith.

 

[DaBruinz]

The NFL Draft Network has him 5 11, 172. NFL Draft Buzz DOES have him at 182 and 5 9. But, downside, 5 9. Also not in love with his drop rate at BC.

Sounds like NFL Draft Network hasn't updated their info. the 5'9 182 was Flowers weight/height for the Shrine game.

 

[p8ryts]

On Haynes, it's a bit of an odd comment. He made All-Pro 6x with the Patriots. Only 3x with the Raiders. He played a lot more games with the Patriots, the equivalent of 6 full seasons, but only 4 with the Raiders. He more than doubled the amount of INTs with the Patriots than he had with the Raiders.

My memories of Haynes made be discolored because my primary image of him is falling on his --- giving up a 70+ yard TD, game over. That's right on my hall of shame with Sam Bam going out of bounds.

 

[long distance]

Of course they did.
The interesting thing here will be the contract. If its camp body/PS/b-up kind of a deal (i doubt it) it can be a good sign of attacking the position/depth more seriously this offseason. If its a prime backup/low starter kind of a deal (sort of where he ended up playing last yr) it could be a bad sign that there will be no significant upgrade to the OL/depth..

OL is THE unit that makes or breaks the team. Playoffs were another proof not that it was needed. Two teams with big investments in OL played the final game. They invested heavily DESPITE having quick mobile QBs.

People wanna know Macs ceiling? Put him behind Eagles OL. Brown, Smith and Goedert dont hurt either.

The amount of first contract could already tell the story of 2023 Patriots..

 

[jimnance]

My memories of Haynes made be discolored because my primary image of him is falling on his --- giving up a 70+ yard TD, game over. That's right on my hall of shame with Sam Bam going out of bounds.

One bad play. Haynes is hands down the best cb in Pats history. He is a top 3 alltime nfl cb. He's a Patriot nfl hall of farmer. Period.

 

[p8ryts]

One bad play. Haynes is hands down the best cb in Pats history. He is a top 3 alltime nfl cb. He's a Patriot nfl hall of farmer. Period.

I know I'm not rational about Haynes and Cunningham. I can't help myself. I will take Ty Law and Raymond Clayborn over Mike Haynes.

 

[Uptown]

 

[SlowGettingUp]

XFL kickoff return rules are fantastic:

 

[Uptown]

 

[VJCPatriot]

My most coveted WR for the Patriots in the previous draft was Jaxon Smith-Njigba's teammate Chris Olave. I just loved Olave's buttery smooth route running and ability to manipulate the defensive backs to get himself open. He looked like the perfect fit for the Patriots offense and would have been a nice weapon for Mac Jones. But let's be honest if we drafted Olave, Patricia and Joe Judge would have probably found a way to RUIN him.

So in this draft with Bill O'Brien as our new offensive coordinator, I feel like we need to ask ourselves, what type of players fit into the BOB system?

The following article highlights key elements of BOB offensive system that he has employed most recently at Alabama.

To summarize the points of the article, BOB offense likes to attack A> Matchups and B> Using tempo.

Mac Jones should be the biggest beneficiary as the system will have a built-in progression of reads that he can sink his teeth into and will allow him and presumably the center to make at the line protection adjustments depending on what the defense is showing, which is a light years improvement upon Patricia's 'three stooges' offensive scheme that did not allow such adjustments.

The TLDR is that we should expect the Patriots to target players who look like a fit for BOB's offensive scheme. I expect that heady WRs who can execute routes and understand the offensive scheme will be prioritized over just physical specimens. Athleticism never hurts, but to me, it looks like BOB's system is going to try to 'scheme open' a lot of these receivers and their ability to create clean releases and run efficient routes will be more important than raw physical traits.

I guess in a roundabout way, I'm saying JSN could be a very good fit for the Patriots new offense. If no elite blindside tackle drops to #14, I would be quite comfortable with the Patriots trading down to the early 20's to draft JSN while stockpiling more picks to move up in round 2 for a solid tackle prospect. In BOB's system, a player who can quickly create separation and make himself available as a 'move the chains' WR like JSN might be more valuable than more of a 'burner' down the field threat like a Quentin Johnston for instance.

JSN highlights, check out his shake and bake move at 3:42 mark:

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Thanks for these insights. Do you think that Hyatt and Thornton would be too redundant in terms of their strengths and potential roles? Hyatt may be the better player, but they certainly aren’t going to give up on Thornton yet (nor should they).

Hyatt is everything we want Thornton to be. He's Thornton close to his final form. Kinda funny how similar they are. Little high cut speedsters that accelerate quickly. Good trackers. Not guys you want dancing around in short spaces but can really change the game and stretch the field. Vertically and horizontally. Two interesting comps but the other thing is. People want Flowers or Downs or Addison and they'll probably take reps away from TT as well considered they'll be playing the same role (slot-z) although a little different.

Teams like Pats, GB prefer size and like their WR to block so it'll be interesting to see what they do.

Hyatt is likely a top WR 2/3 for me though.

I don’t want them to draft either Flowers or JSN, I NEED them to draft one of them…..but 14 is too high, so my ideal scenario is for them to draft their top-rated LT or CB at 14 and then get aggressive by trading up into the late 1st, to grab one of those two WRs, to fill the Edelman role for Mac. Reed and Downs, in that order, would be my favorite consolation prizes (I know that Reed offers a different skillset than the other three but I agree that he is going to be a very good pro).

I'm curious if this is something OB will ask for or has asked for when coming back. I actually wrote about this when he signed or right before he signed in this thread I believe. I think he'll definitely want a guy tha can just get open, move the chains and be a reliable target. We've been lacking that guy for a minutes now after having one for well over a decade.

It's an interesting argument. This offense has missed a true legit X forever. Johnston might be sitting at 14 with a Higgins, Metcalf, Pittman like impact. All big boys with top speeds of 21 + mph except for Higgins I believe and he's very close. Guys that can win deep on 9's and fade. Contested rec. Create a little separation off curls and win on digs. QJ is electric. Impressive stop & start ability. He would walk on WR1 and solve a lot of problems but this team needs a real quick hitting slot too in the worst way. Last year we had guys in the same area and yea some of that was bc Patricia had no clue but also speaks to the fact that A)we have multiple guys that love in the same area - Meyers, Agholor, Bourne
B)They all need to run exact, precise routes to make it work. Agholor and Bourne, Bourne in particular. Have some wiggle but nothing like Jules, Danny or Wes. I think Bourne could be that guy but who knows there. Anyway yea we have very few options that can get instant separation and that needs to change.

X, Z, slot. I really don't care lol. Just get Mac another target at some point.