Tom Brady says he's done "for good"

[crawhammer]

PeeWee: 95% coaches / 5% players
14U: 85% coaches / 15% players
HS: 65% coaches / 35% players
College Fr: 55% coaches / 45% players
College Sr.: 45% coaches / 55% players
NFL-rookie: 40% coaches / 60% players
NFL-veteran: 35% coaches / 65% players
NFL-elite: 25% coaches / 75% players

This is good but I'll add:

Brady in his prime: 20% coaches / 30% players (excluding Brady) / 50% Brady

 

[crawhammer]

I'd respond to this, but we're not shifting the argument. If you're now trying to shift the credit away from the coaches - who put what was then an undrafted rookie in a position to make a play - and instead make it a bad play by Wilson, you're in a weird place I can't help you with.

I'm saying it's all true:
Coaches put Malcolm in position to make a play.
Malcom made a good play.
Wilson made a bad play.

 

[TBR]

Too much garbage for Brady to sort through in 2006, 2013 & 2019.

Forget 2008. Season was over the moment Brady's knee got destroyed.

2009 was a tall ask with Brady coming off the ACL. The Welker injury was the nail in the coffin.

2010-2012 was a tremendous stretch for Brady. The NE defenses were trash, which arguably wasted the peak of Brady's ability.

In 2015 poor decisions by Belichick cost the team three games: PHI, @NYJ, @Mia. Subsequently they lost the #1 seed which resulted in them being totally overmatched @DEN in the AFCCG. The Broncos had a powerhouse offense that season but Peyton loses that AFCCG if it's in Foxboro.

2017: Malcolm Butler. No need to elaborate.

In 2015, Broncos had a powerhouse defense, not offense.

 

[crawhammer]

I'll give @venecol credit, I'm pretty sure he knows he's just trying to be difficult. You're actually a little more heavily invested in these.

He's invested. So am I. But I'm not sure "just trying to be difficult" deserves more credit than being invested.

 

[Guts]

 

[Steve102]

@venecol

I don't have an answer on how much coaching matters, it's not something that can be quantified 50/50, 80/20, 25/75. Did it matter on the Super Bowl vs Seattle when Butler made the play? You bet your ass it did. To craw's point, it mattered on the opposite side of the field as well because Pete Carroll eff'd up the call, and should have smashed away with Beast Mode. Yes, Wilson made the wrong decision and threw a ****ty ball. Perhaps if he had better coaching, he would have recognized that Browner was in press and likely was going to jam the WR, thereby altering the route. Glaring examples of coaching on the same play, on both sides of the ball.

Here's another one: Belichick vs. Martz in Super Bowl 36. Were the Pats better, athletically, than the Rams? Eff no. Were they better prepared? Yup. Did Martz rely on his guys being better athletes and, arrogantly, play in Belichick's hands perfectly? Yup. Did the Rams finally figure it out on their last possession? Yup. Did the Pats play for overtime like Coach Madden wanted? No. Why? Because the NE coaches had confidence that their players were better prepared than the Rams, and they let their players preform at the highest level when it mattered most. Result: birth of the legend.

Does coaching matter when Randy Moss is streaking down the field behind Revis and makes a one handled grab? Eff no. Players play. Players will always be more important than the coaches.

Did it matter that Mac had **** ass coaching this year, when last year he had Josh? Sure as hell looks like it. We will know for sure come this fall.

 

[crawhammer]

Customarily that's not how it works.

Brady will retire a Patriot. Someday.

I generally don't like the 1-day contract deal with anyone. It's obviously a fraudulent scenario. I'm pretty sure Joe Montana didn't sign a 1-day contract with the 49ers. Brady should pass on it too. It won't change history, the 6 banners will still stand prominently at Gillette. The Brady statue will still cast a large shadow over the stadium entrance.

 

[ahmed]

If Brady is truly all done, he will take Krafts offer on a 1 day contract and file his retirement papers with the NFL.

Simple as that. Case closed.

I will be surprised if he does.

 

[crawhammer]

2015 was Bill's most poorly coached year all things considered.

Fully agree. However his worst decision was yet to come.

 

[Sect140]

This won't be a popular view but I think Brady should decline the offer. Brady originally wanted to retire a Patriot, and Kraft could have made it happen, but he deferred to Belichick instead. Brady left and he went on to have great success in a Buccaneers uniform. He retired a Buccaneers. That's that.

Brady will go in the HOF of both teams. He'll go in the actual HOF with both jerseys representing his career. His jersey number should be retired by the NFL and the Lombardi should be renamed. I'm being serious.

Eventually he will I think but I agree he won’t do it now. I do not like how Kraft when he was on CNN said I want Tom to sign a one day contract and the fans want him to, so if it doesn’t happen it’s Tom’s fault not Bobs, this makes Bob look good. It looks to me like Bob is trying to make up for when Tom left, at least to the fans. Why not just call Tom and ask him privately.

I think in time Tom will be back especially if it’s events with other members of Super Bowl teams.

 

[Nehalem]

I generally don't like the 1-day contract deal with anyone. It's obviously a fraudulent scenario. I'm pretty sure Joe Montana didn't sign a 1-day contract with the 49ers. Brady should pass on it too. It won't change history, the 6 banners will still stand prominently at Gillette. The Brady statue will still cast a large shadow over the stadium entrance.

He should hold out for a 2-day contract

 

[crawhammer]

In 2015, Broncos had a powerhouse defense, not offense.

TY, correct. They were a powerhouse offense in 2013. Peyton was totally cooked in 2015. I was confusing the respective AFCCG games too. 2015 was when Brady connected with Gronk for 40 yards on a 4th-10 and then again on a 4th-goal for a TD. They didn't convert the 2-pt attempt to tie the score at 20. That would have been another comeback for the ages.

But anyway, it strengthens my point about Peyton not being able to win that AFCCG in Foxboro.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

TY, correct. They were a powerhouse offense in 2013. Peyton was totally cooked in 2015. I was confusing the respective AFCCG games too. 2015 was when Brady connected with Gronk for 40 yards on a 4th-10 and then again on a 4th-goal for a TD. They didn't convert the 2-pt attempt to tie the score at 20. That would have been another comeback for the ages.

But anyway, it strengthens my point about Peyton not being able to win that AFCCG in Foxboro.

Neither Brady or Manning won in the other’s stadium since…I think…2006 regular season? That’s what made it baffling when Bill claimed the #1 and #2 seed doesn’t matter much after tanking against Miami. But. Coaching. It‘s not like the home crowd mattered on all those tipped off snap counts in Denver. But…coaching.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I generally don't like the 1-day contract deal with anyone. It's obviously a fraudulent scenario. I'm pretty sure Joe Montana didn't sign a 1-day contract with the 49ers. Brady should pass on it too. It won't change history, the 6 banners will still stand prominently at Gillette. The Brady statue will still cast a large shadow over the stadium entrance.

I can go either way on 1-day contracts, but both Montana and Brady had outgrown their team's region. Other, lesser players, are probably looking to get back into the region's graces where they plan to have their next career.

 

[crawhammer]

Eventually he will I think but I agree he won’t do it now. I do not like how Kraft when he was on CNN said I want Tom to sign a one day contract and the fans want him to, so if it doesn’t happen it’s Tom’s fault not Bobs, this makes Bob look good. It looks to me like Bob is trying to make up for when Tom left, at least to the fans. Why not just call Tom and ask him privately.

I think in time Tom will be back especially if it’s events with other members of Super Bowl teams.

I'm sure Brady remembers Kraft saying after the 2019 season that he "hoped and prayed" Brady would retire. Obviously that would have wiped out Brady's 7th Super Bowl championship. At the time Kraft said that, I thought it was pretty selfish, hypocritical, and uncool.

 

[Steve102]

I can go either way on 1-day contracts, but both Montana and Brady had outgrown their team's region. Other, lesser players, are probably looking to get back into the region's graces where they plan to have their next career.

Jerry Rice did it. He's probably the most notable, in my book anyway. I never really got it either. It would be nice to have Tom "come home" and put all the divorce with Bill and the team behind them. I don't think a 1 day contract needs to be that answer. A Tom Brady Welcome Home Day in Gillette in June would certainly get it done. Sell a bunch of chit in the pro shop, get the vendors some extra business. Bring in Bon Jovi, Elton John and a bunch of Kraft's buddies to perform. Bang the place out.

I should be an event planner.

 

[venecol]

He's invested. So am I. But I'm not sure "just trying to be difficult" deserves more credit than being invested.

Don't include me in the Tom vs Bill argument. I've been done with that for a while now. You're not going to convince anyone on either side. It's pointless.

My point follows what Ice posted about the effect of coaches vs players in general on the results of the games. You know that I've maintained a position that players matter more, including in losses. I'm on record for blaming the Bucs ****ty season on the players performing like crap more so than blaming the bad coaching. To me, a coach can definitely lose a game by making a poor decision on a key moment in a game (going / not going for it on 4th, time outs, challenges, etc.) which are things that only a coach can decide. But for the vast majority of a game, it's the level at which players execute that matters. Now you could argue that failure to motivate players falls under coaching, which is true to an extent, but not when you're dealing with veteran professionals getting paid a lot of money. To me, the lack of talented players is way more important than the level of coaching is on the outcome of a game. That's the point I've been trying to make. Others disagree, which is fine.

 

[203Pat]

Jerry Rice did it. He's probably the most notable, in my book anyway. I never really got it either. It would be nice to have Tom "come home" and put all the divorce with Bill and the team behind them. I don't think a 1 day contract needs to be that answer. A Tom Brady Welcome Home Day in Gillette in June would certainly get it done. Sell a bunch of chit in the pro shop, get the vendors some extra business. Bring in Bon Jovi, Elton John and a bunch of Kraft's buddies to perform. Bang the place out.

I should be an event planner.

I agree. I want all the pomp and circumstance. It needs to be an all out event sometime in the early summer when most people in the NFL universe are free to participate. It should be like the Larry Bird retirement. Live music, every former teammate who can make it, former competitors, some presentation of spots on the field where big plays were made, etc. Full dog and pony red carpet event.

 

[Steve102]

Don't include me in the Tom vs Bill argument. I've been done with that for a while now. You're not going to convince anyone on either side. It's pointless.

My point follows what Ice posted about the effect of coaches vs players in general on the results of the games. You know that I've maintained a position that players matter more, including in losses. I'm on record for blaming the Bucs ****ty season on the players performing like crap more so than blaming the bad coaching. To me, a coach can definitely lose a game by making a poor decision on a key moment in a game (going / not going for it on 4th, time outs, challenges, etc.) which are things that only a coach can decide. But for the vast majority of a game, it's the level at which players execute that matters. Now you could argue that failure to motivate players falls under coaching, which is true to an extent, but not when you're dealing with veteran professionals getting paid a lot of money. To me, the lack of talented players is way more important than the level of coaching is on the outcome of a game. That's the point I've been trying to make. Others disagree, which is fine.

None of this is wrong, I think you're leaving out the preparedness portion, the game planning. It's not the NBA, where athleticism trumps all. Game planning, preparing, and scheme matter a lot in the NFL still. Very few players are Tom Brady who have all the answers to the tests, and fewer still who study film and prepare on their own to his level.

 

[bigballas]

Same except 2006-2019

you mean 2003-2019. i mean 2005 was wrapped up (lol bears) barring an epic meltdown

He should hold out for a 2-day contract

Does it F the bucs w dead cap if he signs w us before official retirement? I know the dead cap is smaller if he retires but does he have to retire as a Buc