NFL GAME DAY DISCUSSION 2022 NFL Playoff Monday - Wild Card Round - Cow Patties vs the Avocados

[crawhammer]

Not to single you out, but I think funny that the same people who will not give Mac Jones the slightest benefit of the doubt for having horrible coaching, bad offensive line, a lot of injuries, no true #1 WR, etc. make similar excuses for Tom Brady.

I'll address this specific issue.

Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback and player in the history of the NFL. 7x SB winner, 5x SB MVP, 3x NFL MVP, 15x Pro Bowler, 19x Division winner, 35 postseason wins, etc.

Mac Jones is a 1x 7th alternative pro bowler and 1x playoff game loser.

Brady has earned the benefit of the doubt. Mac has not.

That said, I have acknowledged the horrible decision made by BB to surround Mac with unqualified imbeciles. It's also true that Mac's play was poor. Comparatively Brady had a much better season. With a significantly worse head coach than Mac's (unless you also want to argue that point).

 

[crawhammer]

Jesus lighten up Mac10. You got your wish...Finally. Brady at 45 wasn't as good as before., not that you've ever given him any credit for anything in the past anyway. Congratulations! Wax poetic for another hundred posts. You got nothing else going on obviously.

Yes he can piss on Brady's grave after he threw for 350 and 2 TDs. Washed up slob could only manage nearly 200 yards in his final quarter. A 25-year-old Mahomes had 270, 0 TD, and 2 INTs in a Super Bowl and this clown thinks Mahomes is a superhero.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Jesus lighten up Mac10. You got your wish...Finally. Brady at 45 wasn't as good as before., not that you've ever given him any credit for anything in the past anyway. Congratulations! Wax poetic for another hundred posts. You got nothing else going on obviously.

Yep, I was right two of the past three years that Brady wasn't going to win the SB. I'll take the W on that one.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Yes he can piss on Brady's grave after he threw for 350 and 2 TDs. Washed up slob could only manage nearly 200 yards in his final quarter. A 25-year-old Mahomes had 270, 0 TD, and 2 INTs in a Super Bowl and this clown thinks Mahomes is a superhero.

You know nothing about football except stats. Somehow only you think Brady played well last night with 350 yards and 2 TDs. Oh, and you forgot the mind boggling interception to Kearse.

Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback and player in the history of the NFL.

LOL

 

[Guts]

Yep, I was right two of the past three years that Brady wasn't going to win the SB. I'll take the W on that one.

You know to be fair to you when I asked you straight up without the trolling before the season began how you see the Bucs doing you predicted 11 wins but a drop-off in the Oline play. You were pretty spot on

 

[Toofy]

Then what is it about? Proving that Bill can win it all w/ an avg QB? You can bring in Shannahan as OC and DeMeco Ryans as DC and this team doesn't magically become a contender. It takes talented players on both sides of the ball to get there. This team is devoid of elite talent no matter how much we want to believe in our guys. That's because of Bill's philosophy of bringing in jags and "coaching 'em up" which is fine, but only worked w/ an elite QB. It won't work anymore. Look at the top contenders:

PHI - stacked + good coaching
SF - stacked + good coaching
KC - stacked + good coaching
BUF - stacked + good coaching
CIN - stacked + good coaching

Possibly the new conditions around TC and mandatory participations have limited the opportunity to coach up mediocre players.

I have heard prior to 2010 before the new agreement was in place pats had brutal schedules with lot of more contact practice sessions. Now with all these new rules , with less practice , we see more injuries , less opportunities for mediocre or low end players to rise up.

No wonder we see 3 years ( uche ) or 4 years( wise) for players to have their best seasons .

We might need to be bottom of Barrell team before we can compete. We should definitely not trade down from 14 and if we have elite talent at CB, DE, OT , WR we should just take that player irrespective of our priority need .

 

[crawhammer]

You know nothing about football except stats. Somehow only you think Brady played well last night with 350 yards and 2 TDs. Oh, and you forgot the mind boggling interception to Kearse.

LOL

Says the nitwit who thinks Brady is overrated.

I gave a running impression of Brady's performance in the playoff thread. Go read it if you really want to know what I thought of Brady's night. I'm not repeating it for you.

My point really was you're a hypocrite. Excuse making for Mahomes in a much bigger spot making a much bigger ass of himself.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Yep, I was right two of the past three years that Brady wasn't going to win the SB. I'll take the W on that one.

You're a real fking genius at picking aren't you? 1 quarterback wins, 1. But its more that that with you. You have an irrational compulsion to go anti Brady out of left field on a daily basis, hijacking thread after thread. Now he's had a couple years in the twilight of his career where he didn't achieve it all and that emboldens you even more. You troll his career. You troll his personal life. You have every stat that even hints at a negative handy in your back pocket to troll with. Why? Seriously why? You've never answered that. You just deflect. You begrudgingly admit he's somewhere in the top 5 quarterbacks but you spend all your energy discrediting every thing hes ever accomplished. I guess you have to admit something good about him so you don't look like a complete moron. Its like telling someone you love your wife then spend the next 3 years telling everyone everything she's ever done wrong and never anything she's done right. Have you ever thought about counseling?

 

[Patjew]

That’s what I was thinking. He’s definitely going to hit a long one to win this game.

Called it.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

"Brady the GM" gets credit for Lenny, Gronk and AB coming, but never seems to get the blame for all the other things he could have had impact on if he really was as influential as some like to make him out to be. Was it really a surprise to anyone that AB flipped out? Was it really a surprise that Lenny only had a few good months in him? Did Brady push to get a better replacement? If he wasn't responsible for Arians being kicked upstairs, it's sure as heck clear he didn't protest it, or insist they find a better leader than Blowes. He watched as Marpet retired and no replacement was found. He could never find a way to get on the same page as Mike Evans, the exact kind of WR many begged the Pats to draft. He spent his free time trying to get hired by Miami, and took long vacations away from Tampa during training camp. Is he just there to get the credit for when things go well and to let others get blamed when they don't?

I've blamed Brady for bringing Julio, Rudolph, etc. Even though they were washed up

And for playing a part on jettisoning Bruce Arians out of the team

 

[Rob0729]

I'll address this specific issue.

Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback and player in the history of the NFL. 7x SB winner, 5x SB MVP, 3x NFL MVP, 15x Pro Bowler, 19x Division winner, 35 postseason wins, etc.

Mac Jones is a 1x 7th alternative pro bowler and 1x playoff game loser.

Brady has earned the benefit of the doubt. Mac has not.

That said, I have acknowledged the horrible decision made by BB to surround Mac with unqualified imbeciles. It's also true that Mac's play was poor. Comparatively Brady had a much better season. With a significantly worse head coach than Mac's (unless you also want to argue that point).

You do realize you are making a strong case for Mac Jones being given the benefit of the doubt for horrible coaching, poor o-line, etc because he isn’t the GOAT who should be able to overcome those things far easier than a second year QB? So if you don’t think Brady can overcome horrible coaching, injuries, and poor play around him; you should feel Jones should get a complete free pass because even an elite QB couldn’t perform under similar conditions.

 

[venecol]

The Bucs went 7-9 before Brady got there. And then they added Gronk, Fournette, Brown, and Wirfs to significantly improve that team in addition to Brady. Let's stop acting like Brady just showed up and sprinkled magic pixie dust on the team.

This garbage take again. Let's go through this one by one.

Wirfs: he was drafted #13 overall in 2020. Part of Lichts team building as a GM. One hell of a pick since he made AP-1 his rookie season. Was the team not supposed to draft anyone because they signed Brady? Nonsense.

Gronk: coming out of retirement, hadn't played in 19 mos when season began. It showed. Many here thought he was slow and not the same player. BA used him mainly as a blocker the 1st month+. Didn't find his football speed until Wk 6. Ended with 45/623/7 TDs. Decent year but hardly elite numbers (#67 in yds) for a key contributor. No TDs in the playoffs until the SB.

Fournette: arrived after being cut by Jaguars. BA had him sitting behind RJones (RB1) who had twice as many carries and almost double the yards of Fournette, who was malcontent about being a back-up. He got his chance once Jones got injured w/ 3 games remaining. Rushing 97/367/6 TDs. Very low numbers (#61 in yds) for being a key component of Brady's success.

AB: came in mid-season and only played 8 games, starting in 4. His numbers: 45/483/4 TDs. Not bad but #5 behind Scotty Miller. Again, not a top contributor.

Brady: 401 comp. (#2) / 4633 yds (#3) / 40 TD (#2) / 12 Int / 102.2 rating (#9) / 3 rush TD / 3 GWD/4QC (#4/#3).

Despite being in a new system for the first time in 20 years w/ new coaches, OL, receivers, and no practices in a Covid year; Brady ended up being a top 3 QB at 43 years of age who went on to win 3 straight road playoff games on the way to SB win #7.

I remember when the Bucs were 7-5 right before the bye nobody gave them a chance. You even said unless he went deep in the playoffs his season would be considered a failure. You're still butt hurt over that one. Lol

Every Bucs player on both sides of the ball gave Brady 100% credit for the run. They all said he elevated the entire team, both offense and defense. Almost like he used magic pixie dust.

I remember Roger Staubach in awe over what Brady was able to accomplish that season. Everyone was. Your garbage take has been debunked.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

-Bucs had a lot of roster holes, which was inevitable due to the moves they made the last two years. I think that’s why Brady wanted out before the season. Jensen was the straw that broke the camel’s back but they were already out Gronk and Marpet. Donovan Smith sucks and is easily exposed without other great players on the line; that was apparent in 2021 against the Rams.

-Bowles wasn’t good, but no coach is capable of creating a run game without reasonably good blocking, and lack of running made the passing game very inefficient. As easy as it is to pile on Bowles, what solution is there when you are truly the worst running team in the league?

-Brady was nowhere near what he was last year. Even with time, so many opportunities missed with errant throws. Suddenly all these receivers forgot how to run correct routes? I don’t think that’s the case. His arm strength wasn’t there and his confidence was low. I’ve always thought Brady is less cerebral than he’s made out to be…most of his brilliance is from instinct and rhythm. Those weren’t there. Was he injured? It was worse than in 2019, but his transition from 2019 to 2020 was dramatic improvement, so I do have some optimism he could transform again in a new environment. I believe he had tennis elbow in 2019.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

This garbage take again. Let's go through this one by one.

Wirfs: he was drafted #13 overall in 2020. Part of Lichts team building as a GM. One hell of a pick since he made AP-1 his rookie season. Was the team not supposed to draft anyone because they signed Brady? Nonsense.

Gronk: coming out of retirement, hadn't played in 19 mos when season began. It showed. Many here thought he was slow and not the same player. BA used him mainly as a blocker the 1st month+. Didn't find his football speed until Wk 6. Ended with 45/623/7 TDs. Decent year but hardly elite numbers (#67 in yds) for a key contributor. No TDs in the playoffs until the SB.

Fournette: arrived after being cut by Jaguars. BA had him sitting behind RJones (RB1) who had twice as many carries and almost double the yards of Fournette, who was malcontent about being a back-up. He got his chance once Jones got injured w/ 3 games remaining. Rushing 97/367/6 TDs. Very low numbers (#61 in yds) for being a key component of Brady's success.

AB: came in mid-season and only played 8 games, starting in 4. His numbers: 45/483/4 TDs. Not bad but #5 behind Scotty Miller. Again, not a top contributor.

Brady: 401 comp. (#2) / 4633 yds (#3) / 40 TD (#2) / 12 Int / 102.2 rating (#9) / 3 rush TD / 3 GWD/4QC (#4/#3).

Despite being in a new system for the first time in 20 years w/ new coaches, OL, receivers, and no practices in a Covid year; Brady ended up being a top 3 QB at 43 years of age who went on to win 3 straight road playoff games on the way to SB win #7.

I remember when the Bucs were 7-5 right before the bye nobody gave them a chance. You even said unless he went deep in the playoffs his season would be considered a failure. You're still butt hurt over that one. Lol

Every Bucs player on both sides of the ball gave Brady 100% credit for the run. They all said he elevated the entire team, both offense and defense. Almost like he used magic pixie dust.

I remember Roger Staubach in awe over what Brady was able to accomplish that season. Everyone was. Your garbage take has been debunked.

Then Brady can take 100% blame for Tampa’s FAILURE to win in 2021 and 2022.

 

[RIpats88]

You do realize you are making a strong case for Mac Jones being given the benefit of the doubt for horrible coaching, poor o-line, etc because he isn’t the GOAT who should be able to overcome those things far easier than a second year QB? So if you don’t think Brady can overcome horrible coaching, injuries, and poor play around him; you should feel Jones should get a complete free pass because even an elite QB couldn’t perform under similar conditions.

Yeah this is an odd argument. The GOAT who has played in 10 super bowls with 7 rings and been in the league for 20 something years can't overcome poor coaching and roster. Yet a 2nd year QB is supposed to....

Just shows how unhinged for whatever reason the Mac hate is and is not based in rational thought.

 

[venecol]

Then Brady can take 100% blame for Tampa’s FAILURE to win in 2021 and 2022.

Glad to see you acknowledge your take was garbage.

Brady had an MVP level season in '21. If they failed to make it to the SB it sure wasn't because of him. Brady regressed in '22. The entire team did. Now please name which QBs have won the SB in 3 straight seasons. Nobody has. QBs w/ 2 consecutive SB wins:

Bart Starr (1 & 2)
Bob Griese (7 & 8)
Terry Bradshaw (9-10 & 13-14)
Joe Montana (23 & 24)
Troy Aikman (27 & 28)
John Elway (32 & 33)
Tom Brady (38 & 39)

18 seasons since any QB has won it consecutively, longest span in the SB era. Winning SB is hard. Your hero Mahomes failed to win 2 consecutive SBs because he ran into Tom Brady.

Another garbage take debunked. You're grasping at straws but we all know you don't care about winning arguments just triggering posters w/ your pathetic trolling. You've already been banned from the Brady forum (we took the vote). Ian has asked you to stop trolling Brady in the main forum but you continue. You're either dumb AF or just asking to be placed on time out.

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[venecol]

Yeah this is an odd argument. The GOAT who has played in 10 super bowls with 7 rings and been in the league for 20 something years can't overcome poor coaching and roster. Yet a 2nd year QB is supposed to....

Just shows how unhinged for whatever reason the Mac hate is and is not based in rational thought.

I've had this discussion w/ @crawhammer. He's not consistent in his arguments towards Mac and Brady. Mac, Brady and Herbert all regressed as well as other QBs across the league. Scoring was down across the league. I think defenses have gotten faster and have the formula for countering more of the offensive schemes. Obviously coaching matters but like @Ice_Ice_Brady says above, it comes down to the players performance, be it the OL, receivers, or the QB.

That's why I've maintained that despite the coaches; Mac played poorly, as did Brady and Herbert for their standards, despite being #2 & #3 in passing yards.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

I hate to be that guy, but I genuinely had to do a double take at this thread to make sure I wasn't in the Tompa Bay Buyaringaneer forum

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Glad to see you acknowledge your take was garbage.

No, I was using your twisted and screwed up logic against you. You'll never admit that anything is Brady's fault. He's god-like in your book and if anything goes wrong it's someone else's fault. Where was Brady in the first 3 quarters in his playoff game against the Rams? Where was he in quarters 1-4 against the Cowboys?

Brady had an MVP level season in '21. If they failed to make it to the SB it sure wasn't because of him. Brady regressed in '22. The entire team did. Now please name which QBs have won the SB in 3 straight seasons. Nobody has. QBs w/ 2 consecutive SB wins:

Bart Starr (1 & 2)
Bob Griese (7 & 8)
Terry Bradshaw (9-10 & 13-14)
Joe Montana (23 & 24)
Troy Aikman (27 & 28)
John Elway (32 & 33)
Tom Brady (38 & 39)

18 seasons since any QB has won it consecutively, longest span in the SB era. Winning SB is hard. Your hero Mahomes failed to win 2 consecutive SBs because he ran into Tom Brady.

Another garbage take debunked. You're grasping at straws but we all know you don't care about winning arguments just triggering posters w/ your pathetic trolling. You've already been banned from the Brady forum (we took the vote). Ian has asked you to stop trolling Brady in the main forum but you continue. You're either dumb AF or just asking to be placed on time out.

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Fact - Brady won the SB in 2020 with Fournette, Evans, Gronk, Brown, Wirfs, and Godwin, to name a few.

Fact - Brady did not win the SB in 2021 and did not have Godwin or Brown down the stretch. What happened here? All I heard was that the Bucs were poised to run it back because they were the first team since the Raiders of 83 to return all their starters.

Fact - Brady did not win the SB in 2022 and was without Brown and Gronk.

You do the math.

YOur hero Brady failed to win 3 in a row because of lol, a washed up Peyton in 2015 and Nick Foles in 2017. At least Mahomes lost to a top 3 all time QB in the super bowl.

And I've pointed out before how Brady during the regular seasons from 2020-2022 has been lighting up bad teams (mostly in 2020 and 2021) and padding his stats. His numbers against good teams outside of the super bowl run in 2020 has been nowhere near as good. THis year he looked bad against good teams and bad teams.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]