NFL GAME DAY DISCUSSION 2022 NFL Playoff Monday - Wild Card Round - Cow Patties vs the Avocados

[venecol]

It’s a team game, team includes the coaches.

You always repeat this like if there's ever been a single poster that has said otherwise. That's not the question. Who's more important to the success of a team: players or coaches? I think most reasonable people would agree it's the players. Out of the players, who's the most important leader on the team? I don't know about volleyball or baseball, but in football it's the QB.

Your failure to acknowledge that is the difference between your irrelevant statement about it being a team sport (no sh*t) and the importance of the different parts that make up the team.

 

[Wozzy]

You obviously didn't watch the Bucs in 2022. They tried running the ball, to a fault. They were 32nd in rushing yards, Y/A and rushing TDs. They were an even worse running team in the red zone. The only time their offense worked this season is when Brady called the plays while going no huddle. Brady was among the best 4th quarter and red zone quarterbacks in the NFL. He won 3 games by scoring with less than 10 seconds left in the game. His 4 comebacks and 5 game-winning drives saved them from a 4-13 season. You sound like Toilet Bowles saying they should have run the ball more despite being consistently unable to do it for an entire season. Pass, pass, pass was their only formula for first downs and scoring points. Watch the games before you comment.

And if coaching matters so much then why hasn't the GOAT HC ever won a meaningful football game in 10 full seasons without the GOAT QB? Meanwhile the GOAT QB has a Super Bowl championship without the GOAT HC. And get give any horse sh*t like Bruce Arians was the "brains" of the outfit.

Actively choosing to not run the ball is not the same as being "bad" at running the ball... the Buc's did the former.

In week one the Bucs, with the same O-Line, came out and rushed the ball for 152 yards against these same Cowboys and beat them handily.

The Buc's stopped running, they thought running was unnecessary. They ranked 32nd in the NFL in rushing attempts.

Brady set the single season record for pass attempts, it wasn't conducive for team success.

If we're going to hold BB accountable for his mistakes, and we should, then we should hold everyone accountable for their mistakes.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

The Bucs went 7-9 before Brady got there. And then they added Gronk, Fournette, Brown, and Wirfs to significantly improve that team in addition to Brady. Let's stop acting like Brady just showed up and sprinkled magic pixie dust on the team. In fact Tampa was the 3rd ranked offense in 2019 in terms of YPG and 4th in PPG.

Fournette Gronk and AB came because of Brady though.

And Brady still deserves credit for winning with them, in his first years. Plenty of great QBs still waste good teams or don't win with them. Look at Rodgers last year against the 49ers.

 

[Wozzy]

You always repeat this like if there's ever been a single poster that has said otherwise. That's not the question. Who's more important to the success of a team: players or coaches? I think most reasonable people would agree it's the players. Out of the players, who's the most important leader on the team? I don't know about volleyball or baseball, but in football it's the QB.

Your failure to acknowledge that is the difference between your irrelevant statement about it being a team sport (no sh*t) and the importance of the different parts that make up the team.

Coaches pick and develop the players... they don't appear out of thin air like Excaliber from the mists.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Tampa Bay hadn't won a playoff game in 18 seasons before they when 3-0 on the road then won the Super Bowl. Brady obviously was the key difference. Every season every team is constructed differently from the seasons before. You incessantly pointing out their rosters moves beyond bringing in Brady is just totally obnoxious.

He was the key difference but the Bucs would have been another 9-7 or 10-6 team with Brady and no Gronk, Fournette, Brown, and Wirfs.

 

[Wozzy]

Daboll and Pederson are better coaches than Belichick? Wow Belichick in the Toilet Bowles grouping. Okay. Strong take.

The entire coaching staff is what we're talking about.

BB's genius doesn't just transfer to his assistants the moment they're hired.

 

[Wozzy]

This is lies. What are you saying?

Tampa at one point literally had the worst rushing attack in NFL history, around the middle of year. They finished bottom 30 all time by the end of the year.

They didn't just "decide to stop running the ball". They were horrible at running.

They rushed the ball for 152 yards on opening day and beat this same exact Cowboys team.

They ranked 32nd in rushing attempts, they stopped running the ball.

 

[Wozzy]

And one the the greatest weapons in Tom's toolbox is play action. By not establishing a rushing attack, you remove this arrow from his quiver and render play action a paper tiger. Suggesting Tom is better off without a rushing attack is absurd.

Somebody in 2020 forced the run down Tom and Leftwich's throats, they went on to win a ring... that guy is not there anymore.

Anyone need more evidence, that this is not just Wozzy's "Brady hate?"

Go back and read what I wrote at the end of the 2020 season. I credited that team running the ball more in the playoffs to Tom... and his understanding of how playoff football works from years learning in New England.

I was clearly wrong based upon this season's results. It was Arian's all along.

One couldn't almost say Brady can't win without Arians/BB.... the same argument the QB ball washers throw around all the time.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Criticizing Bill for his performance the last 3 seasons doesn't equate to hate. Though there are some that may hate him for whatever reason, most of us are criticizing his performance.

In 3 seasons Bill having a .490, record w/ no division wins & an 0-1 playoff record is not what any reasonable person should be proud of or impressed with. The sh*t show we all witnessed this past season is just the cherry on top. The fact he's still here is a testament to the goodwill towards him because of his past success which doesn't guarantee future success like many here believe.

On the other hand, Brady went to the most losing franchise in the NFL and in 3 seasons went .640, w/ 2 division wins, a 5-2 playoff record and a SB win.

But it's perfectly OK to be a Brady hater based on his performance, but not be allowed to criticize Bill based on his. Come on man.

Not to mention, no one thought the Pats would be middling like this post Brady.

Many bought into the hype that Belichick could just retool and "continue the dynasty" with any plug in QB.

But now the standard keeps on lowering to where some are saying it's impressive Belichick coached this team to a 8-9 record...

 

[venecol]

Another example: NYG not just in the playoffs but beating the Vikings and their "elite talent".

Wonder where Daboll got his coaching chops from?

You do realize that in every game there can only be one winner, correct? You realize that upsets happen, correct? That it was a one score game. This season had a large amount of upsets. Are the Bears better coached than the Patriots because they beat us? Nonsense.

 

[Boomer B]

Actively choosing to not run the ball is not the same as being "bad" at running the ball... the Buc's did the former.

In week one the Bucs, with the same O-Line, came out and rushed the ball for 152 yards against these same Cowboys and beat them handily.

The Buc's stopped running, they thought running was unnecessary. They ranked 32nd in the NFL in rushing attempts.

Brady set the single season record for pass attempts, it wasn't conducive for team success.

If we're going to hold BB accountable for his mistakes, and we should, then we should hold everyone accountable for their mistakes.

Did you watch any of the Bucs games this year? They averaged 3.4 yds per rush, lowest in the league. Their lack of rushing success left them in 2nd and 3rd and longs which are passing downs. With the injuries on the o-line the Bucs couldn’t run this year. It wasn’t because Brady didn’t want to.

 

[crawhammer]

Actively choosing to not run the ball is not the same as being "bad" at running the ball... the Buc's did the former.

No, they were bad at running the ball... 32nd in rushing yards, Y/A and rushing TDs. Worse red zone running team in the NFL. First downs and scoring only came by way of the passing game (and generally with Brady running the no huddle).

In week one the Bucs, with the same O-Line, came out and rushed the ball for 152 yards against these same Cowboys and beat them handily.

Right, Fournette showed up to camp 30 pounds overweight and emptied his tank in week one. He had no ability to run the ball for the rest of the season. He was only useful if Brady got him the ball in open spaces in the passing game.

The Buc's stopped running, they thought running was unnecessary. They ranked 32nd in the NFL in rushing attempts.

They were 32nd in rushing yards per attempt. That's last in the NFL. Your game plan is maximize your greatest weakness? Ok, Toilet Bowles.

Brady set the single season record for pass attempts, it wasn't conducive for team success.

It's the only time they moved the ball, got first downs, and scored from any point on the field including the red zone. Pass attempts were their only chance for success this season. Watch the games next time before you make statements.

If we're going to hold BB accountable for his mistakes, and we should, then we should hold everyone accountable for their mistakes.

BB isn't being held accountable for his mistakes. Everything is the fault of Patricia, Judge and Mac. That's what I'm reading. Even though BB was the one who put those three together.

 

[RicoG]

As others have pointed out... what the hell was this play call and route combination? Leftwich is an abomination. Watch Evans and Gage, bottom of the screen. The INT wasn't great, but how the hell do you get to the goal line, chance to tie the game, and this is what you choose to call?

Looks like a typical Bucs red zone possession. No one open and Brady getting pressure even when just throwing away the ball.

 

[crawhammer]

He was the key difference

There you go! Just delete the rest of your statement.

 

[crawhammer]

The entire coaching staff is what we're talking about.

BB's genius doesn't just transfer to his assistants the moment they're hired.

You're still calling him a genius after hiring Patricia and Judge to take over a new offense for his second year 1st round franchise quarterback?

 

[crawhammer]

Looks like a typical Bucs red zone possession. No one open and Brady getting pressure even when just throwing away the ball.

That ball needs to land out of bounds. Everyone else sucked on the play too but Brady didn't do the team any favors there.

 

[Wozzy]

You're still calling him a genius after hiring Patricia and Judge to take over a new offense for his second year 1st round franchise quarterback?

I can admit it was a mistake to have Patrica run the offense and have, it doesn't make BB any less of a football genius.

Brady failed miserably this year by pulling a LeBron and wanting to play defacto GM. He failed without Arians being there to provide stability and common sense.

It's a team game, players play, coaches coach... and no team can afford to be outright bad in any of these areas.

 

[crawhammer]

Looks like a typical Bucs red zone possession. No one open and Brady getting pressure even when just throwing away the ball.

Really they should have been in the no huddle from the start of the game. Again, like has been the case for the entire season, it's the only time they looked competent last night. Brady just needs to GTF out of Tampa Bay at this point. It's run it's course and if they're truly bringing back Bowles then it's a no-brainer for him to go elsewhere or retire.

 

[TBR]

He was the key difference but the Bucs would have been another 9-7 or 10-6 team with Brady and no Gronk, Fournette, Brown, and Wirfs.

Hilarious. Yea, if you remove any elite team's best tackle, TE, WR and RB... they're going to go 9-7 or 10-6 at best. You could apply this dumb hypothetical to any top flight team in NFL history.

 

[Wozzy]

That ball needs to land out of bounds. Everyone else sucked on the play too but Brady didn't do the team any favors there.

So he's not the best to ever play the position... because of a mistake?