NFL GAME DAY DISCUSSION 2022 NFL Playoff Monday - Wild Card Round - Cow Patties vs the Avocados

[Bill Lee]

Amazing how “a lack of elite talent” was only limited to the offense with horrible coaching. Meanwhile the defense with continuity in coaching gave up the 3rd fewest points in the league.

The offense didn’t lack talent, give us a break. What KC wide receiver scares anyone?

Many fans can’t differentiate between talent and execution. I’ve learned this from talking sports online since Al Gore created the interwebs.

Another example: NYG not just in the playoffs but beating the Vikings and their "elite talent".

Wonder where Daboll got his coaching chops from?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

More like Brady failed to realize that Leftwich and Bowles aren't even competent to hold jobs as ice cream taste testers.

Leftwich was the OC last two year and Bowles was the DC. Tampa's coaching was not the main problem. Brady was not good this year at all outside of the Carolina game where he threw 3 TDs to Mike Evans who was being covered by the Panther's backup CB. The Bucs didn't deserve to be in the playoffs.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Offensive driven league, it has been for some time now

Can’t do 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense that relies on a Fort Knox defense anymore

even the best defenses in the league are going to break down eventually from a qb who breaks out of the pocket, etc. it’s just too much to ask defenses these days


Which also means it’s stupid for us to still not emphasize the WR position and get a player that warrants Def coordinators to actually have to spend some brain cells game planning for, because right now that player doesn’t exist on the roster

And we underestimate how offensive driven it was. 90s Packers, 90s Broncos, 90s Cowboys, etc all had many offensive playmakers. The 03 and 04 Pats still had very productive offenses.

 

[Bill Lee]

Sounds like Brady put too much faith in his ability to get this particular Bucs team across the finish line

Tom Brady believes he can drag Bucs across finish line to another Super Bowl

The 45-year-old quarterback was asked to do more than ever this season for the Bucs offense.

www.tampabay.com

Unfortunately, the Bucs were more dead than Lazarus...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Ryan Johnson played last night on a torn ACL, MCL, and PCL. Those injuries could not have possibly healed by yesterday.

Ryan Jensen: I'm proud of myself for being out there after a severe knee injury

Buccaneers center Ryan Jensen played in Monday night's playoff loss to the Cowboys after missing the entire regular season with a knee injury, and afterward he said he was proud to have done it.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

“It was a pretty severe injury. A lot of people I know were confused why I didn’t have surgery,” Jensen said. “I ended up tearing my MCL, my ACL and my PCL. I flipped my meniscus. I had a fracture and another little bone chip thing. It was a major injury and I was as fortunate as I could be with the way the injury happened that I didn’t have to have surgery and it was able to heal on its own in five months. Some call it dumb, but I’m a football player and football players play football.”

 

[Wozzy]

Because as you always like to say, it's a team effort. Having a losing record just shows that the inspiring D efforts were just wasted. We can get into the details of the D performance, but the fact remains they weren't competitive against the better teams/QBs. Why? Lack of talent was the difference.

No, it's because our offense not only couldn't score... they couldn't even sustain drives or give the defense a rest.

We ranked 28th in offensive plays run. 28th in offensive first downs. 19th in red zone attempts. The offense sucked, that's why they lost and the defense wasn't as good against better offenses, our offense couldn't sustain drives or control the clock. It is a team game and that means complementary football.

Kelce? Teams have to game plan around him, which leaves their receivers free to roam, and they are all fast as sh*t. You also forgot to mention Mahomes, which is a top 3 QB. Their OL? One of the best in the league. Their talent on the O side of the ball is exponential compared with ours and why they're the #1 seed.

Hunter Henry is one of the best TE's in the NFL when healthy... he was healthy. Rhamondre is one of the best RB's in the league, hell our RB room was spectacular. Jakobi is as solid a slot WR you'll find in the league. The rest of the WR's outside of Agholor were fine, Parker caught tough balls. Bottom line is you have no clue if they had enough talent because the offensive coordinator was a dunce. Thornton has "elite" athleticism. Marcus Jones is already elite, he's an All Pro this year. Talent was not the issue.

KC doesn't have a WR who scares anyone, who teams gameplan for... bottom line is Andy Reid is an offensive genius and Mahomes is his conduit to consistent explosive offense.... they don't miss Tyreek Hill at all.

On this we agree, but talent matters since those are the guys that execute. I always put it on the players execution >> coaching. That's why I don't give as much weight to our O coaching performance as many here do. There were many plays left on the field this season because of poor execution, be it by the OL, QB or receivers. Why? Lack of talent. Nobody is scared of any of our O weapons (aside from Rham).

The Pat's offensive weapons were running into each other on the field and injuring each other. They ranked near dead last in pre-snap penalties and game clock penalties. Opposing defenders were calling out the plays on the field because they knew what was coming.

Saying coaching wasn't a disaster is ridiculous, it's why the first move of their offseason was put a big "help wanted" sign for the offensive coordinator job.

 

[Wozzy]

Another example: NYG not just in the playoffs but beating the Vikings and their "elite talent".

Wonder where Daboll got his coaching chops from?

The Giants, the Jags... these teams look drastically different with better coaching.

The Patriots, the Bucs... they look drastically different with worse coaching.

 

[Wozzy]

Ryan Johnson played last night on a torn ACL, MCL, and PCL. Those injuries could not have possibly healed by yesterday.

Ryan Jensen: I'm proud of myself for being out there after a severe knee injury

Buccaneers center Ryan Jensen played in Monday night's playoff loss to the Cowboys after missing the entire regular season with a knee injury, and afterward he said he was proud to have done it.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Actively choosing to not run the ball is not the same as being "bad" at running the ball... the Buc's did the former.

In week one the Bucs, with the same O-Line, came out and rushed the ball for 152 yards against these same Cowboys and beat them handily.

The Buc's stopped running, they thought running was unnecessary. They ranked 32nd in the NFL in rushing attempts.

Brady set the single season record for pass attempts, it wasn't conducive for team success.

If we're going to hold BB accountable for his mistakes, and we should, then we should hold everyone accountable for their mistakes.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Then what is it about? Proving that Bill can win it all w/ an avg QB? You can bring in Shannahan as OC and DeMeco Ryans as DC and this team doesn't magically become a contender. It takes talented players on both sides of the ball to get there. This team is devoid of elite talent no matter how much we want to believe in our guys. That's because of Bill's philosophy of bringing in jags and "coaching 'em up" which is fine, but only worked w/ an elite QB. It won't work anymore. Look at the top contenders:

PHI - stacked + good coaching
SF - stacked + good coaching
KC - stacked + good coaching
BUF - stacked + good coaching
CIN - stacked + good coaching

Heck, to make your point more poignant:

Some still critique Zac Taylor of the Bengals. Some thought he was bad in 2019 and 2020.

Many used to criticize Kyle Shanahan's game management (super bowl 51, 54)

People used to roast Andy Reid for his clock management and being a choker in the playoffs!

But notice how when their QBs and WR improved (Joe Burrow, Brock Purdy, Patrick Mahomes respectively) we don't even criticize them anymore? This is why I find it funny how many people overstate coaching.

Obviously you can't go far with terrible coaching (Staley). But players (especially the QB) makes or breaks everything. Players still elevate coaching.

The Buccaneers this year were a mess, Brady is the only reason they won 8 games. Without him, they only get like 3 wins even with the same coaching. If Brady was younger they probably get 10-11 wins this season with the same coaching.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Their run game is absolutely ****.

I believe that the biggest thing they lost with Arians leaving is the accountability he brought. Arians wasn't afraid to call people out for their mistakes or being half-assed. He was good at keeping players in line and performing to a standard. He called Brady out on more than a few times.

I haven't seen that with Bowles, whatsoever. Firing Leftwich, while the right move, still won't change anything as long as Bowles is there.

Honestly, not much needs to change. Brady's accuracy, better oc, better running game - just 1 of those things would have given them an extra 2 wins this year

 

[venecol]

Yeah, all the hate for Belichick really is weird, given all he accomplished here.

Criticizing Bill for his performance the last 3 seasons doesn't equate to hate. Though there are some that may hate him for whatever reason, most of us are criticizing his performance.

In 3 seasons Bill having a .490, record w/ no division wins & an 0-1 playoff record is not what any reasonable person should be proud of or impressed with. The sh*t show we all witnessed this past season is just the cherry on top. The fact he's still here is a testament to the goodwill towards him because of his past success which doesn't guarantee future success like many here believe.

On the other hand, Brady went to the most losing franchise in the NFL and in 3 seasons went .640, w/ 2 division wins, a 5-2 playoff record and a SB win.

But it's perfectly OK to be a Brady hater based on his performance, but not be allowed to criticize Bill based on his. Come on man.

 

[crawhammer]

Brady never should have gotten Arians fired, he was clearly the brains of that outfit. They refused to run the ball in 2022 when that’s what propelled them to a ring in 2020. They looked like an offense run by their QB and a former QB at offensive coordinator. Pass, pass, pass… great way to go 8-10 on the season.

Stop blaming the talent around him, it was almost the same exact team that could have won a ring last season when Todd Bowles played press coverage in the final seconds. Coaching matters, all players need coaching… even the greatest of all time.

You obviously didn't watch the Bucs in 2022. They tried running the ball, to a fault. They were 32nd in rushing yards, Y/A and rushing TDs. They were an even worse running team in the red zone. The only time their offense worked this season is when Brady called the plays while going no huddle. Brady was among the best 4th quarter and red zone quarterbacks in the NFL. He won 3 games by scoring with less than 10 seconds left in the game. His 4 comebacks and 5 game-winning drives saved them from a 4-13 season. You sound like Toilet Bowles saying they should have run the ball more despite being consistently unable to do it for an entire season. Pass, pass, pass was their only formula for first downs and scoring points. Watch the games before you comment.

And if coaching matters so much then why hasn't the GOAT HC ever won a meaningful football game in 10 full seasons without the GOAT QB? Meanwhile the GOAT QB has a Super Bowl championship without the GOAT HC. And get give any horse sh*t like Bruce Arians was the "brains" of the outfit.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

A bad coach can make a stacked team lose. It takes a team.

A bad coach can lose a team a game or two. But in the long run, it's the players.

Even this year, Todd Bowles didn't really lose them most games with his coaching. They were still in the game in most of their losses.

I can give you the OC and his playcalling, but prime Brady still squeezes an extra 2 wins out of this team.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Actively choosing to not run the ball is not the same as being "bad" at running the ball... the Buc's did the former.

In week one the Bucs, with the same O-Line, came out and rushed the ball for 152 yards against these same Cowboys and beat them handily.

The Buc's stopped running, they thought running was unnecessary. They ranked 32nd in the NFL in rushing attempts.

Brady set the single season record for pass attempts, it wasn't conducive for team success.

If we're going to hold BB accountable for his mistakes, and we should, then we should hold everyone accountable for their mistakes.

This is lies. What are you saying?

Tampa at one point literally had the worst rushing attack in NFL history, around the middle of year. They finished bottom 30 all time by the end of the year.

They didn't just "decide to stop running the ball". They were horrible at running.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

On the other hand, Brady went to the most losing franchise in the NFL and in 3 seasons went .640, w/ 2 division wins, a 5-2 playoff record and a SB win.

The Bucs went 7-9 before Brady got there. And then they added Gronk, Fournette, Brown, and Wirfs to significantly improve that team in addition to Brady. Let's stop acting like Brady just showed up and sprinkled magic pixie dust on the team. In fact Tampa was the 3rd ranked offense in 2019 in terms of YPG and 4th in PPG.

 

[crawhammer]

The Giants, the Jags... these teams look drastically different with better coaching.

The Patriots, the Bucs... they look drastically different with worse coaching.

Daboll and Pederson are better coaches than Belichick? Wow Belichick in the Toilet Bowles grouping. Okay. Strong take.

 

[sb1]

I'd take Dak in NE if the Cowboys were interested.

Mac Jones and a bunch of picks for Dak? Who says no?

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Another example: NYG not just in the playoffs but beating the Vikings and their "elite talent".

Wonder where Daboll got his coaching chops from?

Giants are the only real case. What daboll has done this year is excellent, scheming around Jones.

But they'll only go as far as Jones and Saquon, and their WR take them. If they front office won't improve the receiving core next year, they'll plateu, and everyone knows this.

Look at Vrabel with the Titans. Dude was a good coach, but they plateud because they would run into teams that could limit Henry, and Tannehill wasn't good enough to make up for it. And they've hemmoraged talent at WR this year. Was Vrabel a bad coach this year?

The Giants, the Jags... these teams look drastically different with better coaching.

The Patriots, the Bucs... they look drastically different with worse coaching.

Jaguars has more to do with Lawrence finally coming alive. Pederson was there this year when the Jaguars were 2-5 and Lawrence struggled. What happened? Lawrence started throwing more accurately and turned it over less.

Did pederson coach up Lawrence mid season? Did he coach up Lawrence in the middle of the 2nd quarter against the Chargers to stop throwing interceptions? Or did Lawrence have good enough poise to bounce

 

[TBR]

As others have pointed out... what the hell was this play call and route combination? Leftwich is an abomination. Watch Evans and Gage, bottom of the screen. The INT wasn't great, but how the hell do you get to the goal line, chance to tie the game, and this is what you choose to call?

 

[crawhammer]

The Bucs went 7-9 before Brady got there. And then they added Gronk, Fournette, Brown, and Wirfs to significantly improve that team in addition to Brady. Let's stop acting like Brady just showed up and sprinkled magic pixie dust on the team. In fact Tampa was the 3rd ranked offense in 2019 in terms of YPG and 4th in PPG.

Tampa Bay hadn't won a playoff game in 18 seasons before they when 3-0 on the road then won the Super Bowl. Brady obviously was the key difference. Every season every team is constructed differently from the seasons before. You incessantly pointing out their rosters moves beyond bringing in Brady is just totally obnoxious.