Does Belichick Last Beyond 2023, and What Needs to Happen?

[One-If-By-Sea]

Not necessarily. This is also damning the supposed GOAT GM with faint praise. Drafting at the end of the round didn’t cause the team to pick N’Keal Harry over A.J. Brown, DK Metcalf, or Terry McLaurin. Drafting at the end of the round didn’t cause the Patriots to trade down when they could have had Aiyuk, Pittman, Queen, or Higgins (all positions of need). Getting picks forfeited didn’t cause them to draft Cyrus the Virus when Bradbury was there.

Statistically it is true. You seem good at stats and should know that if you pick at the end of the round, statistically you will have more disappointments. Cherry picking examples does not override statistical data. Surprised you are doing this, so I thought to respond.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Lol. So you're going to follow me around now with slick replies? Have at it smooth shoes, at least I'm entertaining you.

Smooth shoes is trying to help you look up and see the bright sun on your face and smile. Living in storm clouds all day long is a waste of a good life, and you seem like a nice person. Sorry for trying to help.

 

[Kontradiction]

Statistically it is true. You seem good at stats and should know that if you pick at the end of the round, statistically you will have more disappointments. Cherry picking examples does not override statistical data. Surprised you are doing this, so I thought to respond.

I’m not cherry picking anything. I gave actual examples from the years that we were talking about. Remember, we are talking about the “GOAT GM” here, too. If we can throat his pole over the 2010 and 2012 drafts, which I’ve done in this very thread, we can certainly critique the mediocre-to-bad ones without falling on the “end of the round” excuse. Especially when the man has had some very good to great drafts while picking in the exact same position.

 

[upstater1]

6 bad ones. The rest were either terrible or mediocre.

So, 14 terrible or bad drafts? Amazing this coach managed to win so much.

Not necessarily. This is also damning the supposed GOAT GM with faint praise. Drafting at the end of the round didn’t cause the team to pick N’Keal Harry over A.J. Brown, DK Metcalf, or Terry McLaurin. Drafting at the end of the round didn’t cause the Patriots to trade down when they could have had Aiyuk, Pittman, Queen, or Higgins (all positions of need). Getting picks forfeited didn’t cause them to draft Cyrus the Virus when Bradbury was there.

Bad scouting, obviously. But... you can play this same dumb game every draft. Why didn't take the HOFer, wow, look, we missed (what every team said in retrospect when we took Gronk in the 2nd round! Anyone could've had him. Harry was mocked at the end of the 1st in the mock of mocks. The consensus of the board was 95% positive. Not only that but, of the 9 WRs taken in the 1st 2 rounds of that draft, only 2 are still with the teams that picked them. Only 3 turned out to be top players. One is just good for what he is (Marquise). But the rest are all BUSTS. Yes, that's 5 of the 9 busted. Those are your chances. 50%.

You know who played bigger roles on that side of the ball? Free agents we had to sign, like Gilmore and JMac and Van Noy because we didn’t have good drafts for the previous 6 years before that Super Bowl.

I'm telling you Flowers and Roberts destroyed their line. And now you're taking a good thing, signing free agents who help you win Super Bowls, as something that proves your point. EVERY TEAM signs FAs. Not all of them work out.

Not really. I’m just looking for at least one good to great draft in an 8 year period. Especially from someone who is supposed yo be the GOAT GM. Not a dynasty-ending 8-year period where the drafts were anything ranging from bad to mediocre. Just one good draft in that time period makes a complete rebuild starting in 2020 unnecessary.

We're spinning our wheels. I already explained to you that 8 years is an eternity in football. Only 2 players from the 2015 2nd round are still contributing. The rest are either gone from football or on the bench not playing.

 

[upstater1]

Guys like Jonnu? For example? You never know what you have until it’s in the building, but again say they do. You’re talking a team
With 2 holes by your standard…is rebuilding? A lot of rebuilding teams in the league, I’d say around 32

I don't think you understand the concept of rebuilding. 32 teams are NOT rebuilding.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I’m not cherry picking anything. I gave actual examples from the years that we were talking about. Remember, we are talking about the “GOAT GM” here, too. If we can throat his pole over the 2010 and 2012 drafts, which I’ve done in this very thread, we can certainly critique the mediocre-to-bad ones without falling on the “end of the round” excuse. Especially when the man has had some very good to great drafts while picking in the exact same position.

That is what stats tell you as long as you have a statistically large enough sample size. If you narrow the sample size small enough, you can prove anything. That is how a lot of PatsFans posters prove their point. They pick small sample sizes. Picking small sample sizes is called "cherry picking" in the vernacular.

 

[Kontradiction]

That is what stats tell you as long as you have a statistically large enough sample size. If you narrow the sample size small enough, you can prove anything. That is how a lot of PatsFans posters prove their point. They pick small sample sizes. Picking small sample sizes is called "cherry picking" in the vernacular.

An 8-year sample size is anything but small. Especially in the NFL. The man has been here for 22 years now. That sample size represents 36% of his drafts. And they all occurred in a row. Three years after the 2010 draft and a year after the 2012 draft.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I know people would like to discuss this, so given that Bill has already said he's coming back for the 2023 season, and it would be pretty surprising to see Kraft move on from him - barring a refusal to make changes - what do you think needs to happen for him to last beyond this season? And do you think he can make enough moves this offseason to make them competitive enough to be a factor next January?

With free agency two months away, it should be interesting to see people's outlooks a couple of months from now. Hopefully, we'll see some good moves including within the coaching staff.

This is a critical offseason and 2023 for Belichick. If he makes the right moves and the right changes - such as hiring the right new coaches to improve the team, drafting the right players in the draft based on good, solid scouting rather than 'nice interviews', and signs the right free agents, 2023 could easily be a turnaround year.

But if BB continues to make mistakes through sheer stubbornness and shows Kraft that the game has left him behind, 2024 could be the Patriots first year without BB. I doubt Kraft wants to move on but at the end of the day he has to make the right business decision for himself and the franchise.

To put it simply, 2023 could be the tipping point for BB.

 

[crawhammer]

I don't think you understand the concept of rebuilding. 32 teams are NOT rebuilding.

Patriots are rebuilding? 7-9 to 10-8 to 8-9... they're treading water so when are we going to see the fruits of this rebuild? I recall a lot of money being spent (unwisely) in free agency prior to the 2021 season (when they also drafted their new franchise quarterback). You think next season they'll be any closer to a successful season (like at least one playoff win)? If not then the built in excuse will be Mac had his third OC in three seasons... so it will all come together in 2024.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Patriots are rebuilding? 7-9 to 10-8 to 8-9... they're treading water so when are we going to see the fruits of this rebuild? I recall a lot of money being spent (unwisely) in free agency prior to the 2021 season (when they also drafted their new franchise quarterback). You think next season they'll be any closer to a successful season (like at least one playoff win)? If not then the built in excuse will be Mac had his third OC in three seasons... so it will all come together in 2024.

Well even Mac Jones being around for 2023 isn't guaranteed. Reportedly Mac was talking to all kinds of people looking for help. And BB apparently didn't like that. Keep in mind this is a New York Post article so it might be exaggerated, but where there's smoke there might be fire.

 

[RIpats88]

All I keep hearing is "bill has earned the right based upon his history"

Why wasn't that same argument applied to Brady when he was pushed out the door due to his age? I thought we don't reward players based upon past performance?

Not saying I want to get rid of bill. But if any other coach went .500 and had a DC coach offense and it was a disaster they probably would be gone.

 

[All3Phases]

I don't think you understand the concept of rebuilding. 32 teams are NOT rebuilding.

Right? But how is a team with minimal
Holes like the patriots, rebuilding? You could find holes on every single team…trying to understand your logic a bit

 

[upstater1]

Right? But how is a team with minimal
Holes like the patriots, rebuilding? You could find holes on every single team…trying to understand your logic a bit

I was referring to 2020. Not 2023.

I really can't figure out why this is difficult.

The process begins with a rebuild and ends with a built.

That's what I'm saying.

This 3 year process ends in the coming year.

 

[All3Phases]

I was referring to 2020. Not 2023.

You said the team is going to the afccg because It’ll be fully rebuilt after filling 2 or 3 holes. Every team has holes

I really can't figure out why this is difficult.

Because your logic doesn’t make sense

The process begins with a rebuild and ends with a built.

Yes so in 2022, they sucked because they are in the middle of a rebuild with 2 or 3 holes, per you

That's what I'm saying.

This 3 year process ends in the coming year.

Who put the timetable on the process?

 

[upstater1]

You said the team is going to the afccg because It’ll be fully rebuilt after filling 2 or 3 holes. Every team has holes

Because your logic doesn’t make sense

Yes so in 2022, they sucked because they are in the middle of a rebuild with 2 or 3 holes, per you

Who put the timetable on the process?

I'm really astounded.

You never heard of a rebuild? Go look at the 2019 roster and the current roster.

That's a rebuild.

It doesn't go on indefinitely.

I said they've come to the end of the rebuild. What in the world is the mystery?

Look at the 2000 through 2002 team. 3 seasons, 2 of them they didnt make the playoffs. The roster went through a huge overhaul from the Carroll years. The only players left were Faulk, Troy Brown, Bruschi, McGinest, Law. 5 players out of 58. That's what I call a rebuild. There was Ted Johnson too but he only started 2 games and he was done by the middle of the year.

Look at the starters on this team. If it's true McCourty is retiring, the entire secondary is new. At LB, Bentley spent the whole year on IR his rookie year, so he's really a member of the rebuild. Deatrich Wise same story. All others new. David Andrews is the only holdover starter.

 

[Patsfan1958]

Someone's been listening to Lane Johnson...

 

[Rob0729]

I think the press release about Mayo and interviewing OCs is a good signal that Belichick is on the hot seat. I think if this team doesn’t show significant improvement and wins a playoff game in 2023, I think Belichick could be gone.

 

[All3Phases]

I'm really astounded.

You never heard of a rebuild? Go look at the 2019 roster and the current roster.

That's a rebuild.

It doesn't go on indefinitely.

I said they've come to the end of the rebuild. What in the world is the mystery?

Look at the 2000 through 2002 team. 3 seasons, 2 of them they didnt make the playoffs. The roster went through a huge overhaul from the Carroll years. The only players left were Faulk, Troy Brown, Bruschi, McGinest, Law. 5 players out of 58. That's what I call a rebuild. There was Ted Johnson too but he only started 2 games and he was done by the middle of the year.

Look at the starters on this team. If it's true McCourty is retiring, the entire secondary is new. At LB, Bentley spent the whole year on IR his rookie year, so he's really a member of the rebuild. Deatrich Wise same story. All others new. David Andrews is the only holdover starter.

You said in 2023 the rebuild would be complete and they’d compete for a conference title. The only improvement on the roster they need in your opinion was a couple positions. This is implying that 2022 was still a rebuild because of that. How many teams in the league have a couple holes to fill on a roster? The answer, all of them. You confirmed not every team is rebuilding, so what is your other criteria?

 

[upstater1]

You said in 2023 the rebuild would be complete and they’d compete for a conference title. The only improvement on the roster they need in your opinion was a couple positions. This is implying that 2022 was still a rebuild because of that. How many teams in the league have a couple holes to fill on a roster? The answer, all of them. You confirmed not every team is rebuilding, so what is your other criteria?

I don't know how many times I have to say it. I've been clear 100% of the time. The rebuild started 3 years ago and it'll be complete.
I'm done with this, I don't mean to insult you, but in 3 posts above I wrote 3 years ago as the start, and you clearly are having some kind of weird difficulty that has me saying it began in 2022. I can't help you anymore. Have at it.

 

[All3Phases]

I don't know how many times I have to say it. I've been clear 100% of the time. The rebuild started 3 years ago and it'll be complete.
I'm done with this, I don't mean to insult you, but in 3 posts above I wrote 3 years ago as the start, and you clearly are having some kind of weird difficulty that has me saying it began in 2022. I can't help you anymore. Have at it.

You saying it’s 3 years long doesn’t make it true, unfortunately. You have confirmed the 2022 team was rebuilding because it had 2 or 3 holes on the roster. My point: SO DOES EVERY TEAM. You’ve confirmed not every team is rebuilding, so where is the logic

I’ve also never said you claimed it started in 2022, my point is how is the team with minimal holes rebuilding? If this is your logic; then every team is rebuilding. You confirmed that wasn’t the case.