Does Belichick Last Beyond 2023, and What Needs to Happen?

[Ian]

If Bill was blindsided by TB12 leaving, he failed as a GM at the single most important position on the field. He should have let him walk in 2019 instead of giving him his walking papers in that last contract.

No argument here. They did draft Stidham, but obviously the move caught him off guard based on what we've heard. And I've already said a few times how crazy it was the way the 2020 offseason with Newton and training camp played out, even COVID aside. Sort of curious given Stidham's uneven finish how things play out in Las Vegas. I think his head might explode if they make a big acquisition this offseason.

 

[Steve102]

Should have kept kicking the can until he proved he couldn't do it anymore. The guy never gave him a reason to believe he couldn't do it, so while it would've still caught up to them when the end did come financially, keeping him made sense. At the same time, they had money tied up in other guys they probably shouldn't have paid, but it is what it is.

Bill always cut guys loose a year too soon as opposed to year too late. He played the odds with Brady on his age and it didn't work out. He paid guys to keep the band together and, even Bill said they did this to extend the run.

No argument here. They did draft Stidham, but obviously the move caught him off guard based on what we've heard.

I think he took it for granted that Brady would stay after the Jimmy G trade, and took Brady's signs he was leaving as posturing. I think he thought the relationship that Brady had with the Krafts would keep Brady here. Both are just hunches.

 

[Kontradiction]

I start by realizing that in 2020 we began a rebuild. Unfortunately, we had a year of covid pandemic where not much of anything happened, where we took salary cap hits and signed a vet QB for $1m. It was a lost season.

I see an influx of talent here, we're at the end of the rebuild. I don't see what can be done about QB other than signing a guy like Garoppolo.

You’re making excuses in order to dance around what was a fact by me. Put another way, there’s no reason a near complete rebuild is necessary if the team has even one good (not great) draft over that 8-year period. If you want to whittle it down to 6 years, then that just makes my case even stronger.

Next year is the year. I expect this team to compete at the highest levels of the AFC at the end of the year. I imagine we'll still work thru coaching and staff changes at the beginning, and the schedule is tougher, but I expect a better record by 2 and playoffs.

I hope you’re right. I’d like BB to finish his career here on a high note instead of ending it on a mediocre or bad one.

I already answered that.

First, Jamie Collins, Logan Ryan and Duron Harmon were all good picks. Dugger, Uche, Onwenu is a good haul from 2020.

You’re describing mediocre drafts. None of the players you mention above are at the top of their respective positions in the league. A good draft is the 2010 or 2012 drafts. The 2017 Saints draft was a great draft. Even one of those makes a near complete rebuild unnecessary.

But as I already said, the 2013, 2014 drafts, those players have already cycled out of the NFL. 2 of the 32 second rounders from that year are still contributors in the NFL. Whether or not those were good drafts or bad drafts has no impact on where we are today.

Sure it does. By 2019, this team had begun to Peter out because the core of the talent was drafted from 2009-2012. That doesn’t happen if the 2013, 14, 15 drafts where anywhere approaching good.

And as bad as those drafts were, many of those players were key to Super Bowl victories, like Trey Flowers, James White, Stork, Shaq Mason, Elandon Roberts, Mitchell, Joe Thuney.

The key to those Super Bowl victories were Tom Brady, Rob Gronkowski, Julian Edelman, Hightower, and McCourty. All were drafted before 2013. That was our core. Without them, none of the role players and OL you mentioned above are winning a single playoff game.

 

[Rob0729]

Does he? I haven't ever heard him say that.

I know I am going on a limb here and risk being attacked again for calling someone a Mac Jones hater without any proof, but I just have a hunch here.

 

[maust]

LOL, after all these years I'm almost 50 - I'm right there with you

I have a year on you!

 

[Real fan 02]

The results they’ve gotten from bill belichick are anything but mediocre.

BB is the GOAT head coach, played an integral part of us being so successful for 20 seasons.. However 2022 was probably one of the worst coaching seasons I've seen in his tenure in New England.. I feel Bill the head coach was probably still himself the amazing teacher, But the people around him most notably on offense snd special teams failed!

 

[venecol]

@Ian this is garbage.

Rumor: New England Patriots' QB Mac Jones Requests Trade, Blames Fans

Reports say he's "very frustrated."

wjbq.com

 

[Steve102]

Not sure where to put this, so this is where it's going.

Curran: Changes expected for Patriots after Kraft-Belichick meeting

 

[Steve102]

@Ian this is garbage.

Rumor: New England Patriots' QB Mac Jones Requests Trade, Blames Fans

Reports say he's "very frustrated."

wjbq.com

I can't believe I gave that chitty station a click.

 

[upstater1]

You’re making excuses in order to dance around what was a fact by me. Put another way, there’s no reason a near complete rebuild is necessary if the team has even one good (not great) draft over that 8-year period. If you want to whittle it down to 6 years, then that just makes my case even stronger.



I hope you’re right. I’d like BB to finish his career here on a high note instead of ending it on a mediocre or bad one.



You’re describing mediocre drafts. None of the players you mention above are at the top of their respective positions in the league. A good draft is the 2010 or 2012 drafts. The 2017 Saints draft was a great draft. Even one of those makes a near complete rebuild unnecessary.



Sure it does. By 2019, this team had begun to Peter out because the core of the talent was drafted from 2009-2012. That doesn’t happen if the 2013, 14, 15 drafts where anywhere approaching good.



The key to those Super Bowl victories were Tom Brady, Rob Gronkowski, Julian Edelman, Hightower, and McCourty. All were drafted before 2013. That was our core. Without them, none of the role players and OL you mentioned above are winning a single playoff game.

Again, I count 6 bad drafts. And I stated that we missed a lot of draft picks in those years, 2 #1s to trade and deflategate, another 2 and 4 to deflategate. But we were also always picking at the end of the round. You'll see a lot more busts that way. We were never in premium position to take any of the sure things you see in the top half.

2018 Super Bowl had a lot more to do with a defense that wrecked the Rams offense. Trey Flowers and Elandon Roberts in particular were the 2 key guys on defense. Roberts destroyed the Rams O-L over and over.

Gronk was really hurting that year and had to have a year off. In that game, he saved his best for last, but he was largely ineffective until the final minutes. Brady did not have a stellar game either. Jules was obviously fantastic.

I believe you are looking for a lot more out of the draft than most teams get. When you have 50% of your draft class (2013) as starters and 2 Pro Bowlers (if you include Malcolm Butler), that's not a bad draft.

As for Dugger, UChe and Onwenu, it would not surprise me to see all 3 in the Pro Bowl soon. Onwenu has already been named to two of the more minor All-Pro teams (ESPN writers, PFF).

 

[Kontradiction]

There is no “alternative”. What I said I feel is what I feel, and what you are trying to tell me i feel is wrong.
Pretty simple actually.

It is. You’re blaming your lack of enjoyment of the team on the board when the board is just a symptom. It hasn’t changed. The team has. People have been “whining” here since the board has been created. So, you’re either so invested in the team, and devoid of any other hobbies in life that give you enjoyment, that the opinion of randos when the team is down ruins your enjoyment of said team. Or, the other possibility exists that you’re just more of a fair weather fan who is going to use the board as an excuse to withdraw when the team is down. There is no other explanation.

But nice to see that posting on this board still subjects you to receive verbal diarrhea from the peanut gallery.
Carry on, I won’t be responding.

Such a victim.

 

[venecol]

I can't believe I gave that chitty station a click.

Don't know why it's on the news feed.

 

[Steve102]

Don't know why it's on the news feed.

I minimized the news feed. I guess if there was something to it, someone of substance would have tweeted it, not all hits all the time radio.

 

[sb1]

@Ian this is garbage.

Rumor: New England Patriots' QB Mac Jones Requests Trade, Blames Fans

Reports say he's "very frustrated."

wjbq.com

That Simon Charles dude tweeted that the Patriots fired Patricia on Monday…

 

[maust]

I can't believe I gave that chitty station a click.

 

[h0c2000]

@Ian this is garbage.

Rumor: New England Patriots' QB Mac Jones Requests Trade, Blames Fans

Reports say he's "very frustrated."

wjbq.com

Sounds legit!

According to a Tweet made last night from a man named Simon Charles (whose Twitter bio reads "Esteemed sports journalist & Patriots Beat Writer Double PHD in Journalism & Female Anatomy"), Mac Jones has requested a trade.

 

[Steve102]

That's how I feel too.

 

[Ring 6]

It is. You’re blaming your lack of enjoyment of the team on the board when the board is just a symptom. It hasn’t changed. The team has. People have been “whining” here since the board has been created. So, you’re either so invested in the team, and devoid of any other hobbies in life that give you enjoyment, that the opinion of randos when the team is down ruins your enjoyment of said team. Or, the other possibility exists that you’re just more of a fair weather fan who is going to use the board as an excuse to withdraw when the team is down. There is no other explanation.



Such a victim.

The board surely has changed because it has become dominated by the whiny losers.
Using this board would be expected to enhance the experience of being a patriot fan. You enhance the experience by hearing others opinions, insights, learning information etc.
when the place you go to for that is dominated by whining entitled people who really have little clue what they are talking about and seem to revel in rooting against the team, then it detracts from the experience of being a fan.
So you leave.
That’s what I did.
I haven’t withdrawn from the patriots a millimeter, I’ve withdrawn from a misery filled, ignorant, whining, subset of people who have taken over the community.
I came back for a day after reading that changes were coming, and already see the same cesspool that I left.
It’s not a statement on the patriots that a group of people that post here are jerks.

 

[Pape]

It’s not a statement on the patriots that a group of people that post here are jerks.

I really hope you have a sense of self awareness and include yourself in that group.


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I think the question asked by Ian in the op has been answered by what we've heard about the end of season debriefing... Changes to the offense are going to happen.... Conjecture on my part, but if significant changes aren't made, I think the sun sets on BB in New England after the 2023 season...

Bill has always stated it starts and ends with him... Well this season was a cluster hump of poor offense, sloppy play, seemingly at times unprepared teams hitting the field... It's beyond time to do what's right for the team.

 

[crawhammer]

Works both ways. If it didn't work out, he would have taken the blame for it. Pretty sure you of all people should know people - and the media - love to pile on when times are tough. They don't say much when things are good

There's no hypothetical necessary here. It worked out bigtime for Brady. Major boost to an already untouchable legacy.