We're on to the OFF-Season

[Lagaffe_07]

And if Bill really thinks he put Mac in the best position to succeed after the mess HE created, then I’d be perfectly fine with Kraft letting him go, cause if that’s the case then Bills really lost his mind.

Bill could totally realized that he didn’t put Mac Jones in the best position to succeed and at the same time still evaluate that Mac isn’t the QB he needs.

I remember during the Cam year that when people were asking why Stidham wasn’t playing the main point was: Bill sees stidham everyday in practice and if he was good he would play him.

Bill sees the films and sees Mac Jones everyday at practice and could evaluate that it is not good enough for him.

 

[RodThePat]

Bill could totally realized that he didn’t put Mac Jones in the best position to succeed and at the same time still evaluate that Mac isn’t the QB he needs.

I remember during the Cam year that when people were asking why Stidham wasn’t playing the main point was: Bill sees stidham everyday in practice and if he was good he would play him.

Bill sees the films and sees Mac Jones everyday at practice and could evaluate that it is not good enough for him.

Not to mention Cam had the worst collection of skill position players in football, far worse than what Mac has around him this year, and it wasn't controversial in the slightest to say he sucked that year. It's not like being in a bad situation precludes the quarterback play from being assessed. Were people clamoring to see what Cam could do in 2021 with all the receiver acquisitions? Now, I do think Mac played better this year than Cam did in 2020, but I don't think he did enough to show he wasn't part of the offensive issues and could be expected to provide good enough offensive production in the passing game with better coaching.

 

[slash83]

Bill could totally realized that he didn’t put Mac Jones in the best position to succeed and at the same time still evaluate that Mac isn’t the QB he needs.

I remember during the Cam year that when people were asking why Stidham wasn’t playing the main point was: Bill sees stidham everyday in practice and if he was good he would play him.

Bill sees the films and sees Mac Jones everyday at practice and could evaluate that it is not good enough for him.

Not sure how Bill or anyone else can make a fair evaluation when Mac basically was setup to fail with a tumultuous Patricia running the offense. I believe the Mac we seen in his rookie year is the real Mac, give him a line and a legitimate OC in his 3rd year and a true 1 WR, then I’ll make a judgement. I just don’t think he was given much of a chance to succeed this year, Bill failed the entire team, not just the offense.

 

[State]

This team has uncharacteristically gaping holes to fill in both the player and coaching ranks.

Right now we’re held hostage by the lack of at least one good OT and also by an outside taller CB1. That’s just for starters.

Jerod Mayo really coached up the middle linebackers. The rumor is that he’s moving on.

Any regression whatsoever in the athletically limited Bentley and Tavai will spell doom. These are probably the least athletic pair of middle linebackers in the league.

Not sure they’d even start for Georgia.

 

[turkeyneck]

Wild to say in 3 short years we’ve gone from in Bill we trust to what the.

That's what happens when your performance burns that trust in a conflagration of fail.

 

[venecol]

 

[signbabybrady]

I just find it funny that apparently people were willing to give Bill more credit in his ability to judge whether Brady could still provide top tier QB play after 2019 than in his ability to judge whether Mac Jones is a QB you can win anything with in this league. I just want to see a glimpse from Mac, a couple of games he put together where you can project and say "here's what he could be for you if he develops". Where are they? Trevor Lawrence sucked his rookie year and still put together some incredible plays on film that made it so you could get excited about the projection of him becoming consistent and getting better coaching. When Mac has been asked to carry the offense he's made some plays but also turned the ball over a ton, when Mac hasn't been asked to carry the offense, he has made little mistakes, but also very few plays. Where is the upside? I think Kenny Pickett kinda sucks, and even he put together some impressive drives at the end of games to pull off wins.

I'd still give Mac year 3 with adequate offensive coaching and see what he has, I'll agree the evaluation for 2022 has way too many variables for us to isolate his performance and state definitively what was or wasn't his fault, I just haven't seen much to get excited about. I don't think it's preposterous if Bill believes he isn't the guy (though it would be preposterous for him to believe Matt Patricia did his job well enough this season).

Bill never questioned Brady's ability he didn't want to start paying for 2022 Brady before the 2018 & 2019 seasons. Brady then insisted on a no franchise clause and decided he was leaving after 2019 since he couldn't get the commitment he wanted.

 

[RodThePat]

Bill never questioned Brady's ability he didn't want to start paying for 2022 Brady before the 2018 & 2019 seasons. Brady then insisted on a no franchise clause and decided he was leaving after 2019 since he couldn't get the commitment he wanted.

So in short, he didn't believe Brady would provide 25 million a year level quarterbacking for 3 more years at his age. Which is exactly what I said. Actually, it's worse than what I said because Bill would be paying him "okay established starting QB" money for 2020, 2021 and 2022, not top tier QB money, so he didn't think he'd be able to provide even that.

 

[upstater1]

I just find it funny that apparently people were willing to give Bill more credit in his ability to judge whether Brady could still provide top tier QB play after 2019 than in his ability to judge whether Mac Jones is a QB you can win anything with in this league. I just want to see a glimpse from Mac, a couple of games he put together where you can project and say "here's what he could be for you if he develops". Where are they? Trevor Lawrence sucked his rookie year and still put together some incredible plays on film that made it so you could get excited about the projection of him becoming consistent and getting better coaching. When Mac has been asked to carry the offense he's made some plays but also turned the ball over a ton, when Mac hasn't been asked to carry the offense, he has made little mistakes, but also very few plays. Where is the upside? I think Kenny Pickett kinda sucks, and even he put together some impressive drives at the end of games to pull off wins.

I'd still give Mac year 3 with adequate offensive coaching and see what he has, I'll agree the evaluation for 2022 has way too many variables for us to isolate his performance and state definitively what was or wasn't his fault, I just haven't seen much to get excited about. I don't think it's preposterous if Bill believes he isn't the guy (though it would be preposterous for him to believe Matt Patricia did his job well enough this season).

We're still talking about Brady I guess. This isn't aimed at you, but many of the voices ripping Belichick for moving on from Brady were saying it was over for Brady back in 2019. Brady came under heavy criticism here. I am not at all a critic of what went down when the Patriots moved on from him since it was clear the team was in the process of losing its older core of Super Bowl champions. But what's evident to me is that people really like to complain.

 

[Rob0729]

I won't post the article here because I don't know what Ian's rules are about copyrighting and all that, but this is an excellent season ending evaluation of Mac Jones by Evan Lazar where he writes about the good and bad of the QB. The general conclusion from Lazar is that Jones can be a successful starting QB with the right pieces around him (a playmaker or two and good coaching).

Season Review: Evaluating Mac Jones's Second Season and How the Patriots Move Forward at Quarterback

www.patriots.com

This is a good video to show the flaws in Patricia's game design.

 

[Guts]

So in short, he didn't believe Brady would provide 25 million a year level quarterbacking for 3 more years at his age. Which is exactly what I said. Actually, it's worse than what I said because Bill would be paying him "okay established starting QB" money for 2020, 2021 and 2022, not top tier QB money, so he didn't think he'd be able to provide even that.

I firmly believe that they both just wanted to move on from each other. No blame needed to either side

 

[venecol]

 

[jdlboot14]

The big question for BB is what has a better chance of succeeding in '23...
A brand new QB (Whether rookie, or FA retread) trying to meld with a new team, system and (maybe) coaching...
Or, a re-vamped offensive scheme, and new OC (or even just playcaller) while sticking with QB and majority of players for chemistry.
Knowing this might be your last shot, which do you pick?

 

[RodThePat]

We're still talking about Brady I guess. This isn't aimed at you, but many of the voices ripping Belichick for moving on from Brady were saying it was over for Brady back in 2019. Brady came under heavy criticism here. I am not at all a critic of what went down when the Patriots moved on from him since it was clear the team was in the process of losing its older core of Super Bowl champions. But what's evident to me is that people really like to complain.

You're completely misconstruing the argument. I'm not relitigating the decision to move on from Brady, just observing that at the time Bill was widely given deference for his evaluation of Brady and now people here think he'll have lost his mind if he doesn't believe Mac Jones to be good enough. It's more commentary on how much his credibility with the fans has dwindled over the past three years than a complaint about them not bringing Brady back. Thought the post made that very clear.

 

[upstater1]

You're completely misconstruing the argument. I'm not relitigating the decision to move on from Brady, just observing that at the time Bill was widely given deference for his evaluation of Brady and now people here think he'll have lost his mind if he doesn't believe Mac Jones to be good enough. It's more commentary on how much his credibility with the fans has dwindled over the past three years than a complaint about them not bringing Brady back. Thought the post made that very clear.

This is why I wrote "This isn't aimed at you..." I was just commenting on the topic in general.

 

[p8ryts]

I agree with the overall sentiment. I think this can be done via proxy. Bring in a Kingsbury aged guy to run the offense. Let him relate to the kids on a daily basis.
On D they should be solid when it comes to that with Steve, but bring back Mayo give him the DC and name him the successor or atleast let him know he will be at the top of the considerations list in two years. Then BB Jr gets the DC title all is well.

Like Bedard said earlier bring in a young hotshot coach to be QB coach.

I understand it doesn't resolve every issue with the generational gap. But it should alleviate a lot of it. But Bill isn't going to a front office until his name is on top of Shula's.

With apologies this doesn't make sense to me.
"On D they should be solid when it comes to that with Steve, but bring back Mayo give him the DC and name him the successor or at least let him know he will the considerations list in two years. Then BB Jr gets the DC title all is well."

If the D is solid with Steve who definitely calls the defense, why would Mayo be named DC or even be considered the successor to BB. The defense had been good. Other than Steve making calls, I have no idea what the remaining responsibilities are.

 

[SVN]

Season Review: Evaluating Mac Jones's Second Season and How the Patriots Move Forward at Quarterback

www.patriots.com

 

[upstater1]

So in short, he didn't believe Brady would provide 25 million a year level quarterbacking for 3 more years at his age. Which is exactly what I said. Actually, it's worse than what I said because Bill would be paying him "okay established starting QB" money for 2020, 2021 and 2022, not top tier QB money, so he didn't think he'd be able to provide even that.

Or he assessed that the team was in rebuild mode & that Brady would hinder it not only because of his outsized salary, but because Brady was very angry at "taking less" but seeing few offensive weapons in 2019.

 

[mgcolby]

With apologies this doesn't make sense to me.
"On D they should be solid when it comes to that with Steve, but bring back Mayo give him the DC and name him the successor or at least let him know he will the considerations list in two years. Then BB Jr gets the DC title all is well."

If the D is solid with Steve who definitely calls the defense, why would Mayo be named DC or even be considered the successor to BB. The defense had been good. Other than Steve making calls, I have no idea what the remaining responsibilities are.

Solid as in solid dealing with the age gap by proxy. Steve calls the plays but it's understood that Mayo does the majority of the game planning. It's a bit unusual but not unheard of. Some people can be great game planners but terrible play callers.

I'm not saying Mayo is a terrible play caller, because I have no evidence one way or the other. But that has been an issue for some coaches in the past.

 

[p8ryts]

Season Review: Evaluating Mac Jones's Second Season and How the Patriots Move Forward at Quarterback

www.patriots.com

Good review. The pass plays shown to Parker and Henry illustrate two of his problems.