Does Belichick Last Beyond 2023, and What Needs to Happen?

[Ian]

) no matter what he did would have been a crapshoot.

And I definitely agree. Even in the first round, there still aren't any guarantees. We see it every year.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree...still feel like there was something physical that he didn't want to admit. The drop off was just too dramatic.

And I think Stidham got mad at the signing and something was said. Because when Newton faltered, he never got a shot, so that was definitely telling.

Not enough consideration is given to the human side of the equation. It’s work. How many people have you seen over the years who were good enough to do their job well but immature or just a jerk and ended up fired.
Add that these are kids in their 20s who spent the college years being entitled, and are now making a boatload of money. The incidence of players who flame out because of attitude and immaturity has to be huge.

 

[Ian]

Not enough consideration is given to the human side of the equation. It’s work. How many people have you seen over the years who were good enough to do their job well but immature or just a jerk and ended up fired.
Add that these are kids in their 20s who spent the college years being entitled, and are now making a boatload of money. The incidence of players who flame out because of attitude and immaturity has to be huge.

LOL, you sound like you're under the impression I'm mad at Bill for not assuming Brady would leave and making sure he had everything covered. Definitely not the case. I was saying to @venecol that based on what's been reported, Bill was legitimately surprised. Which is crazy, but "it is what it is."

 

[Ring 6]

And I definitely agree. Even in the first round, there still aren't any guarantees. We see it every year.

So let’s do this. Eliminate first rounders because during a run of 4 SBs in 5 years with the GOAT you aren’t using a 1 on a QB.

Here are the QBs drafted after round 1 from
2017-2019
Kizer
Webb
Beathard
Dobbs
Peterman
Kaaya
Kelly
Rudolph
Lauleta
White
Falk
Lee
Etling
Mcgough
Woodside
Lock
Grier
Finley
Stidham
Stick
Thorson
Minshew
Mcsorley

Anyone criticizing not drafting a QB in those years is either ignorant to reality or just lying.

 

[Ring 6]

LOL, you sound like you're under the impression I'm mad at Bill for not assuming Brady would leave and making sure he had everything covered. Definitely not the case. I was saying to @venecol that based on what's been reported, Bill was legitimately surprised. Which is crazy, but "it is what it is."

Not at all. I was talking about Stidham and your comments about surprised that he didn’t do more.
No question Belichick was surprised but even if he wasn’t there wasn’t much he could have done.

 

[Ring 6]

He used a #2 on Garoppolo, so he obviously wasn't afraid to. That just ended up being bad timing, and the decision to let Jimmy G go equated to two more championships. But he clearly wasn't afraid to pick somebody that high if the guy he/they wanted was available.

I listed all the QBs drafted those years outside of round 1 in another post. He was right to not draft them.

 

[venecol]

Exactly. They blocked him last year from interviewing in Las Vegas and he supposedly wasn't pleased about it and he was frustrated because he couldn't get any clarity. My question is will Belichick change his mind there? Supposedly, Kraft is a fan of Caley, and there was some speculation that his future could be discussed this offseason as part of their long-term plans. They need some continuity if they bring in somebody like O'Brien, so I'm definitely curious to see what happens with him.

I can see them naming Caley the OC more than BoB, but it would have to come with the title. Then, Bill will be forced to follow the Rooney Rule which he's balked at for years.

 

[Ring 6]

I can see them naming Caley the OC more than BoB, but it would have to come with the title. Then, Bill will be forced to follow the Rooney Rule which he's balked at for years.

He has never balked at the Rooney rule, that’s a ridiculous comment.

 

[venecol]

So let’s do this. Eliminate first rounders because during a run of 4 SBs in 5 years with the GOAT you aren’t using a 1 on a QB.

Here are the QBs drafted after round 1 from
2017-2019
Kizer
Webb
Beathard
Dobbs
Peterman
Kaaya
Kelly
Rudolph
Lauleta
White
Falk
Lee
Etling
Mcgough
Woodside
Lock
Grier
Finley
Stidham
Stick
Thorson
Minshew
Mcsorley

Anyone criticizing not drafting a QB in those years is either ignorant to reality or just lying.

Eliminate the 1st rounders? Why? That's nonsense. If you are proceeding on a year to year basis w/ your QB because you think he's too old and a risk, you plan on a future QB which includes all rounds.

 

[slash83]

I don’t think Kraft wants to see Bill break Shulas record while coaching another team.

 

[venecol]

Not at all. I was talking about Stidham and your comments about surprised that he didn’t do more.
No question Belichick was surprised but even if he wasn’t there wasn’t much he could have done.

There was plenty he could've done. But I'm done. This has nothing to do with the future and we'll never agree.

 

[Toofy]

2021 free agency was a major whiff..

Belichick needs to accept it.
Agholor + Jonnu + Henry and 40 million a year . That's criminal. We should have got at least one pro bowlers rather we got 2 busts and one average . Henry did not play like a top TE , more like middle of the pack.

Need to really hit on both draft and free agency . I am not confident a new WR will work wonders here. Hence we might be forced to pay Meyers here unless cook comes here for 13-15 million a year after restructures and Texans eating cap.

If we don't go postseason in 2023 , bill probably retires or is fired. 5 years with no postseason wins and 3 losing seasons all goodwill is lost. We might be worse without bill . But at least we gonna try if there is no upward path with bill .

 

[Ring 6]

Eliminate the 1st rounders? Why? That's nonsense. If you are proceeding on a year to year basis w/ your QB because you think he's too old and a risk, you plan on a future QB which includes all rounds.

They were playing to win SBs. Brady freaked out when they drafted Jimmy g in the second when he was 36, you expect him to be good with using a 1 when he’s 40?
In those 3 years there was 1 first round qb on the board when they picked. In 2018. They chose to add 2 pieces to the offense and win the SB rather than draft a qb that would sit behind Brady for at least 2 years and they would have to change the offense for.

 

[Ring 6]

There was plenty he could've done. But I'm done. This has nothing to do with the future and we'll never agree.

You have not given a single thing that could have been done. You were done with this before you admitted it, you just needed me to prove it to you.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

I don't disagree. Didn't like them letting him go. @Ring 6 will argue the financials, but had they committed to him long-term earlier, they could have made it work the way they did all the years prior. Yes, it would have caught up to them eventually, but they were the ones who made the decision to let that be when it was and clear the books.

According to the reports, he was supposedly legitimately surprised. I was a little shocked to read that, but I guess he honestly didn't think Brady would walk away from them. As for why, he didn't, no idea.

If memory serves me correctly, it was this: For the most part, all of Brady’s deals were done through Kraft. Brady’s had issues with BB in the past (after 2017 bring the biggest example), but he was always loyal to Kraft and stuck around of course. Basically, when Brady went to Kraft’s house to tell him he was leaving, Belichick thought instead Kraft would work out a deal with him. He was shocked Kraft didn’t try.

On that note, the prior summer contract negotiation hardball wasn’t between Brady and Belichick, it was between Brady and Kraft. If it sounds like something Belichick would do, it is — that’s one of the things that drove Kraft to Belichick in the first place, that he thought they saw eye to eye on player contracts. But the point is, it was technically Kraft that wasn’t willing to commit earlier.

 

[ahmed]

To people who say BB earned right to coach as long as he wants regardless of results - did Brady not earn the same right? Why is he wearing another team's uniform? Don't want to hear that crap about he wanted to leave. Bunch of PR for gullible people. Franchises never lose their QB if they want to keep them - ever!

BB reached 3 strikes with me already so am ready to move on this year. 1) sitting Butler, 2) pushing Brady out and 3) crapping the bed after pushing Brady out. The nepotism and OC coaching disfunction is the icing on the cake.

Realistically speaking though - he may be gone if he has a worse record next year. Anything better than this year and he will stick around. I doubt Kraft has the balls to fire him and he will want to beat Shula.

I found it interesting that he said he is coming back next year in his press conference. Has he ever answered this question? Maybe his way of preemptively forcing Kraft's hand just in case?

 

[Hammer of Thor]

2021 free agency was a major whiff..

Belichick needs to accept it.
Agholor + Jonnu + Henry and 40 million a year . That's criminal. We should have got at least one pro bowlers rather we got 2 busts and one average . Henry did not play like a top TE , more like middle of the pack.

Need to really hit on both draft and free agency . I am not confident a new WR will work wonders here. Hence we might be forced to pay Meyers here unless cook comes here for 13-15 million a year after restructures and Texans eating cap.

If we don't go postseason in 2023 , bill probably retires or is fired. 5 years with no postseason wins and 3 losing seasons all goodwill is lost. We might be worse without bill . But at least we gonna try if there is no upward path with bill .

We also got Judon, Mills and Godchaux. There’s one pro bowler, and two solid starters.

Nevertheless, I agree that it would be awesome if we could do much better this time around. Let’s hope so.

 

[venecol]

How much can you really buy on offense with $50 million, while retaining key free agents? Meyers could be gone, Harris could be gone (a chunk of productive offensive), Jon Jones could be gone, and OLine depth could be gone.

They don't even have $50M, it's more like $37M.

Like... I understand we have the 4th most in the league in cap space but does that really allow us to make up for a talent gap?

No

If not, is the draft pool deep enough to hit the glaring holes with?

Some holes. (crosses fingers)

I'm a bit weary going into 2023. If the OC doesn't change and we don't see a talent flux, the results will largely be the same.

Absolutely. I expect it.

I understand Bill downplayed the big spending comment from the media by saying "well, if you look at the past three years, we're among the lowest."

That's a dig at Kraft. He's talking about guaranteed money (bonuses).

If he doesn't change OC or hit hard in agency/draft, he's gonna have the same **** results. He's gonna lose a majority of division games. And he's headed up against some strong NFC opponents next season.

Yup.

Offensive line play plummeted without Scar.

Mac regressed without Daniels.

Offense became predictable without McDaniels.

Special Teams plummeted with whatever **** he still has there.

We f*cked up, we trusted him.

 

[venecol]

He has never balked at the Rooney rule, that’s a ridiculous comment.

When did he follow it?

 

[venecol]

You have not given a single thing that could have been done. You were done with this before you admitted it, you just needed me to prove it to you.

Draft, FAcy, extension what else is there genius? Instead he did nothing and brought in the skeleton of Cam Newton.