Does Belichick Last Beyond 2023, and What Needs to Happen?

[Ring 6]

I agree. They just couldn't catch any breaks. We'll probably look back and be frustrated with how it ended, especially looking at how well they were looking defensively. It's just unfortunate that the breakthrough performance to right the ship really never came. They were close several times, but things always sort of slipped and the result was obviously not what anyone was hoping for.

That said when you make improvements you abate the impact of those fluky things. Be consistent and beat the Bears, packers and Vikings (or ravens) and chunking one in LV isn’t as big a deal.
Don’t leave points on the field and the raider td that wasn’t didn’t matter.

 

[venecol]

Newton (2020) he didn't have much of a choice. Obviously Brady had gone, so they didn't really have anyone. I'm still surprised at how it went from being Stidham being the guy (reports of them being really high on him "inside the building") to suddenly Newton showing up in June and Stidham not even really putting up much of a fight in camp. Obviously, a completely different situation than we saw a year later when Mac showed up. And the fact Stidham never got an opportunity when Newton was struggling is still surprising, which clearly means something had transpired that ultimately kept him on the bench. Just bizarre.

I disagree on Newton. Clearly there was no contingency plan for the QB after 2018. Bill is a smart dude. He must've known there was a chance of having to replace the QB. He should've had a back-up plan.

I'm not half as smart as BB, but there isn't a project I go into w/o contingencies or back-up plans. You always look at the worse case scenario to account for it. You never leave anything to chance. Sometimes you use red herrings knowing they'll fail so you get what you wanted anyway. I only deal in $100 million projects. The Pats are a multi-billion $ Corp. Then he goes and does it again when McDaniels leaves. Like WTF Bill. He would've been canned in a heart beat in my business.

 

[RIpats88]

I definitely don't think you fire bill. But I find it ironic hearing "you can't fire bill look at his record the past 20 years!"

While at the same time praising Bill for say letting guys like Brady walk out the door because "you can only reward someone for what they are now, not their past!"

Well since that decision, bill is a .500 coach and Brady won a Superbowl and is back in the playoffs.

If serious changes aren't made to this coaching staff and next year is a failure idk how you don't at least start thinking maybe bill is part of the problem.

 

[venecol]

Yes, we know. Tom is gone. It is what it is. Rather than grab another veteran, he's thinking long-term and trying to rebuild with a young roster.

That wasn't my point. I'm honestly not impressed with anything Bill has done, including 2019 when Tom was here. Something is off besides the QB. It's just weird.

 

[Ian]

I disagree on Newton. Clearly there was no contingency plan for the QB after 2018. Bill is a smart dude. He must've known there was a chance of having to replace the QB. He should've had a back-up plan.

You say that, but even Bill admitted they didn't have any options. Talked about how they managed to get Newton at the last minute for a million dollars. They weren't prepared at all, and didn't draft one either, which was a massive deal and had most people thinking Stidham was the guy. It's been documented that he honestly didn't think Brady would leave when he did.

Yes, he's a smart guy, but no, he didn't have a plan. Started out great, and then something happened and we never saw the Newton we saw in Seattle again.

 

[venecol]

Point is they are not playing the division winner schedule the following season. Of course you have the rotating division opponent and your own division. I remember every year we'd have to play Peyton Manning or mahomes.

Competition has gotten tougher also. There's definitely more parity in the league. Even the Texans were in almost every game. That's why I don't buy the ifs or almost win arguments. The Texans could've gone 6-11 or the Raiders could've easily gone 11-6. The good teams find ways to pull the wins out of the jaws of defeat. We used to be one of those teams, now, not so much.

 

[SVN]

I dont know how many pats fans have followed them since at least 2001 but its amazing to see how many want BB gone, which makes me think a majority of those are recent ,last decade fans. They havent had deal with a team which is average.

 

[venecol]

You say that, but even Bill admitted they didn't have any options. Talked about how they managed to get Newton at the last minute for a million dollars. They weren't prepared at all, and didn't draft one either, which was a massive deal and had most people thinking Stidham was the guy. It's been documented that he honestly didn't think Brady would leave when he did.

Yes, he's a smart guy, but no, he didn't have a plan. Started out great, and then something happened and we never saw the Newton we saw in Seattle again.

He could've done something in the 2017/18 drafts.

 

[archstanton543]

You say that, but even Bill admitted they didn't have any options. Talked about how they managed to get Newton at the last minute for a million dollars. They weren't prepared at all, and didn't draft one either, which was a massive deal and had most people thinking Stidham was the guy. It's been documented that he honestly didn't think Brady would leave when he did.

Yes, he's a smart guy, but no, he didn't have a plan. Started out great, and then something happened and we never saw the Newton we saw in Seattle again.

That's because Seattle had the worst pass D in the league that year.

 

[Ring 6]

Newton (2020) he didn't have much of a choice. Obviously Brady had gone, so they didn't really have anyone. I'm still surprised at how it went from being Stidham being the guy (reports of them being really high on him "inside the building") to suddenly Newton showing up in June and Stidham not even really putting up much of a fight in camp. Obviously, a completely different situation than we saw a year later when Mac showed up. And the fact Stidham never got an opportunity when Newton was struggling is still surprising, which clearly means something had transpired that ultimately kept him on the bench. Just bizarre.

I understood the Newton thing. You had little hope for that season with the cap problems and the opt outs. But if you could have created a raven kind of offense and not asked Newton to throw unless he did it under ideal situations, or just ran around and got a couple of big plays down the field from buying time, you could have an ok offense and win smashmouth defense minded football. Newton had just deteriorated far too much to be worth anything.
I think Stidham cracked with the pressure.

 

[Ian]

He could've done something in the 2017/18 drafts.

True. Again, he didn't. Clearly, he didn't think Brady would leave. Obviously going 7-9 that year at least got them Mac. Last year they got Zappe, and I wouldn't be shocked if they draft somebody else and/or sign a veteran.

 

[RIpats88]

You say that, but even Bill admitted they didn't have any options. Talked about how they managed to get Newton at the last minute for a million dollars. They weren't prepared at all, and didn't draft one either, which was a massive deal and had most people thinking Stidham was the guy. It's been documented that he honestly didn't think Brady would leave when he did.

Yes, he's a smart guy, but no, he didn't have a plan. Started out great, and then something happened and we never saw the Newton we saw in Seattle again.

If Bill didn't have a plan and was surprised Brady left then they should have offered him more than a one year low-ball deal.

Writing was on the wall. Brady sold his house in Boston and was mopey all year. They gave him a no franchise clause. Then he supposedly never reached to Brady when free agency started. It's not like this was an out of the blue thing.

Fact is they poorly planned. Then again supposedly mcDaniels would've stayed had he been offered more money or clarity on his future. Supposedly they never reached out. Let him leave. And then replaces him with a DC.

Bill wasted two years because of his mismanagement or lack of a "succession plan" for someone supposedly so smart how did he not foresee these things coming and have a better plan? Or any plan at all?

 

[Ian]

That's because Seattle had the worst pass D in the league that year.

That aside, the way he threw the ball was also completely different than how he threw it the rest of the year. It was crazy.

 

[Ian]

Newton had just deteriorated far too much to be worth anything.
I think Stidham cracked with the pressure.

I agree...still feel like there was something physical that he didn't want to admit. The drop off was just too dramatic.

And I think Stidham got mad at the signing and something was said. Because when Newton faltered, he never got a shot, so that was definitely telling.

 

[RIpats88]

That aside, the way he threw the ball was also completely different than how he threw it the rest of the year. It was crazy.

I had hope for the season after that game. Then it fell apart

 

[Vindicate]

How much can you really buy on offense with $50 million, while retaining key free agents? Meyers could be gone, Harris could be gone (a chunk of productive offensive), Jon Jones could be gone, and OLine depth could be gone.

Like... I understand we have the 4th most in the league in cap space but does that really allow us to make up for a talent gap?

If not, is the draft pool deep enough to hit the glaring holes with?


I'm a bit weary going into 2023. If the OC doesn't change and we don't see a talent flux, the results will largely be the same.

Mac is not a guy to elevate receivers. Receivers elevate Mac.

Before I get to my hopeful positives, I want to say - this is the cap issue you run into with:

- Bad offensive drafting, particularly WR's
- Egregious TE contracts
- Complete offensive staff turnover
- A less-than-elite QB

I understand Bill downplayed the big spending comment from the media by saying "well, if you look at the past three years, we're among the lowest."

Which, correct if I'm wrong (and I have a hard time understanding cap nuance), but doesn't that just mean you had little cap space the other two years because you were hamstrung by other, previous signings that have not carried much success over to any of the past three years? I don't get the point in deflecting with that specific retort.

If he doesn't change OC or hit hard in agency/draft, he's gonna have the same **** results. He's gonna lose a majority of division games. And he's headed up against some strong NFC opponents next season.

If Bill wakes the **** up and gets creative, I could see something switching gears. It's wild to me that he can retain such strength on the defense, bring the best out of most CB's he puts in there, randomly pull out the most amount of sacks a Patriots team has had, and not look at his offense and be like "okay I gotta try something different. We have evidence that we don't need to reinvent the wheel on one side of the ball, we just need solid coaching to keep things together."

Offensive line play plummeted without Scar.

Mac regressed without Daniels.

Offense became predictable without McDaniels.

Special Teams plummeted with whatever **** he still has there.

Like. It's not hard to see. A lot of this is coaching. And until you address that, you have to lean into your cap more. And if you lean into your cap, and I feel like $50 million can go quick.

Am I wrong? I dunno. But every day that passes where Bill hasn't said something about his staff, or nothing gets reported, I get .1% closer to thinking next year isn't going to be different.


Also please let it be known: I think Bill is the greatest. Which makes this past year with Patricia and Judge all the more confounding.

 

[venecol]

I dont know how many pats fans have followed them since at least 2001 but its amazing to see how many want BB gone, which makes me think a majority of those are recent ,last decade fans. They havent had deal with a team which is average.

I don't want Bill gone in 2023. If he fails to perform again, then yes. You can't look at a 5 year stretch w/o significant progress in any field and say, it's ok you used to be good 6 years ago for a long time. That's BS.

I've been following the Pats for way longer than the early 2000s and am not looking forward to the losing ways.

 

[Ring 6]

You say that, but even Bill admitted they didn't have any options. Talked about how they managed to get Newton at the last minute for a million dollars. They weren't prepared at all, and didn't draft one either, which was a massive deal and had most people thinking Stidham was the guy. It's been documented that he honestly didn't think Brady would leave when he did.

Yes, he's a smart guy, but no, he didn't have a plan. Started out great, and then something happened and we never saw the Newton we saw in Seattle again.

You just don’t have the resources to account for everything. QBs ready to step in are rare. Should he have used a 1st round pick, alienate Brady and not try to max out the Brady years? He used a 4 on Stidham. Outside of round 1 (and even in round 1) no matter what he did would have been a crapshoot.

 

[Ian]

If Bill didn't have a plan and was surprised Brady left then they should have offered him more than a one year low-ball deal.

I don't disagree. Didn't like them letting him go. @Ring 6 will argue the financials, but had they committed to him long-term earlier, they could have made it work the way they did all the years prior. Yes, it would have caught up to them eventually, but they were the ones who made the decision to let that be when it was and clear the books.

Bill wasted two years because of his mismanagement or lack of a "succession plan" for someone supposedly so smart how did he not foresee these things coming and have a better plan? Or any plan at all?

According to the reports, he was supposedly legitimately surprised. I was a little shocked to read that, but I guess he honestly didn't think Brady would walk away from them. As for why, he didn't, no idea.

 

[Ian]

You just don’t have the resources to account for everything. QBs ready to step in are rare. Should he have used a 1st round pick, alienate Brady and not try to max out the Brady years? He used a 4 on Stidham. Outside of round 1 (and even in round 1) no matter what he did would have been a crapshoot.

He used a #2 on Garoppolo, so he obviously wasn't afraid to. That just ended up being bad timing, and the decision to let Jimmy G go equated to two more championships. But he clearly wasn't afraid to pick somebody that high if the guy he/they wanted was available.