Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bills beat the Pats

[Joker]

They should have made a ceremony of firing the special teams coach on the field.

does this guy ever get hired in the NFL again? talk about Peter Principle...our ST's got progressively worse this season

 

[Joker]

View attachment 48951

you trying to give me a coronary????

 

[mgcolby]

Hu

Yeah, we finally figured out that play action is something that exists

Inspired by the Bills favorite crowd throwing past time no doubt...

 

[Lavictoire]

Kraft: Bill! come on in, what'll you have to drink? I can open a superb Mouton Rothschild from any of our super bowl victory years.

Bill: Thanks Robert, but I'll have a lemonade.

Kraft: Yes! of course Bill. Kathy, please get Bill a lemonade. [whispers] Check with Jerry in concessions.

Kraft: Ahem, ugh, Bill, as you probably know, I've called you here to discuss how we can fix the Patriots.

Bill: fix?

Kraft: Ugh, Yes, Bill...fix. Surely you see how we've fallen since we let Brady go. Now we've shown progress at the end of this season, I give you that, but what do you propose we do from here on out?

to be continued......

 

[Lavictoire]

does this guy ever get hired in the NFL again? talk about Peter Principle...our ST's got progressively worse this season

I want the Patriot way back! This is a disgrace and embarrassment! Patriots were legendary for their special teams prowess. A point of pride for Bellichick. He even drafted with special teams potential in mind. Where is the attention to detail? Where is the pride? Two kickoff runbacks for TD's in a critical game? Oh the humiliation. Bellichick is mailing it in. Hes no longer hands on.

 

[venecol]

2023 Opponents:

Home: Bills (Allen), Dolphins (Tua?), Jets (??), Chiefs (Mahomes), Chargers (Herbert), Eagles (Hurts), Saints (??), Colts (??), Commanders (??)

Away: Cowboys (Prescott), Broncos (Wilson), Raiders (??), Dolphins (Tua?), Giants (??), Jets (??), Steelers (Pickett), Bills (Allen)

A lot of unknown QBs, but I see at a minimum 8 losses based on difference in talent alone. Calling it now, 9-8 next season and we get the #17 pick in the draft.

Too soon?

 

[Guts]

2023 Opponents:

Home: Bills (Allen), Dolphins (Tua?), Jets (??), Chiefs (Mahomes), Chargers (Herbert), Eagles (Hurts), Saints (??), Colts (??), Commanders (??)

Away: Cowboys (Prescott), Broncos (Wilson), Raiders (??), Dolphins (Tua?), Giants (??), Jets (??), Steelers (Pickett), Bills (Allen)

A lot of unknown QBs, but I see at a minimum 8 losses based on difference in talent alone. Calling it now, 9-8 next season and we get the #17 pick in the draft.

Too soon?

Yeah too soon.
Alot of teams are going to look much different including us

 

[TommyD4207]

2023 Opponents:

Home: Bills (Allen), Dolphins (Tua?), Jets (??), Chiefs (Mahomes), Chargers (Herbert), Eagles (Hurts), Saints (??), Colts (??), Commanders (??)

Away: Cowboys (Prescott), Broncos (Wilson), Raiders (??), Dolphins (Tua?), Giants (??), Jets (??), Steelers (Pickett), Bills (Allen)

A lot of unknown QBs, but I see at a minimum 8 losses based on difference in talent alone. Calling it now, 9-8 next season and we get the #17 pick in the draft.

Too soon?

Broncos - Wilson?

Seriously?

 

[venecol]

Yeah too soon.
Alot of teams are going to look much different including us

The teams in red are loaded with talent and have elite/good QBs. None of that is changing. Pats need a major influx of talent to become contenders.

During the offseason I pointed out the lack of top 10 talent on this team on both sides of the ball. I think I mentioned having 3 or 4 (Judon, Onwenu, Rham, Henry). I got blasted. There's this belief this team has all kinds of talent. That we can contend by simply adding a few players. Imo, we have average talent at most positions and when we go up against one of these elite teams it shows. The days of being able to win w/ avg talent that can be coached up are over.

This team needs way more than a make-over. It needs a f*cking face lift.

 

[Guts]

The teams in red are loaded with talent and have elite/good QBs. None of that is changing. Pats need a major influx of talent to become contenders.

During the offseason I pointed out the lack of top 10 talent on this team on both sides of the ball. I think I mentioned having 3 or 4 (Judon, Onwenu, Rham, Henry). I got blasted. There's this belief this team has all kinds of talent. That we can contend by simply adding a few players. Imo, we have average talent at most positions and when we go up against one of these elite teams it shows. The days of being able to win w/ avg talent that can be coached up are over.

This team needs way more than a make-over. It needs a f*cking face lift.

 

[venecol]

Broncos - Wilson?

Seriously?

Yes. They are loaded w/ talent on both sides of the ball. They were dysfunctional and under performed. Wilson was in a new system w/ a rookie HC. He started playing better at the end. They'll be much better next season assuming they can get an experienced HC.

 

[TommyD4207]

Yes. They are loaded w/ talent on both sides of the ball. They were dysfunctional and under performed. Wilson was in a new system w/ a rookie HC. He started playing better at the end. They'll be much better next season assuming they can get an experienced HC.

Wilson just had the worst season of his career. By a lot. Mac Jones had a better season than Russell Wilson.

You're making quite the logic leap here.

They're so loaded with talent they finished 5-12 with a cake schedule (7 games against playoff teams KC, SD, SF, Ravens (Huntley), Sea, they went 2-5). Dead last in offense (32nd), and decent on defense (11th), the Patriots were better in both respects.

You're going to blame that all on the coach? Seriously? All this """"""""talent"""""""", they haven't made the playoffs since Peyton Manning retired. Only the Jets have gone longer.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

2023 Opponents:

Home: Bills (Allen), Dolphins (Tua?), Jets (??), Chiefs (Mahomes), Chargers (Herbert), Eagles (Hurts), Saints (??), Colts (??), Commanders (??)

Away: Cowboys (Prescott), Broncos (Wilson), Raiders (??), Dolphins (Tua?), Giants (??), Jets (??), Steelers (Pickett), Bills (Allen)

A lot of unknown QBs, but I see at a minimum 8 losses based on difference in talent alone. Calling it now, 9-8 next season and we get the #17 pick in the draft.

Too soon?

Depends the QB of those teams

9-8 is a fair prediction. I'd swap out Broncos with Giants for now tho

 

[venecol]

Wilson just had the worst season of his career. By a lot. Mac Jones had a better season than Russell Wilson.

You're making quite the logic leap here.

They're so loaded with talent they finished 5-12 with a cake schedule (7 games against playoff teams KC, SD, SF, Ravens (Huntley), Sea, they went 2-5). Dead last in offense (32nd), and decent on defense (11th), the Patriots were better in both respects.

You're going to blame that all on the coach? Seriously? All this """"""""talent"""""""", they haven't made the playoffs since Peyton Manning retired. Only the Jets have gone longer.

Yea maybe Wilson is washed. Who knows. We'll see.

 

[catent]

Sorry if this has already been posted.



I immediately said after the opening kick-return touchdown that there was an obvious hold in the hole. Not only was there one hold, but there were 2-3 extremely egregious holds within a couple yards of the returner, just before he broke outside. There is no excuse for none of those being called.

I mean, we all knew the circumstances going into this game and some predicted imbalanced officiating, but this is absolute horsesh*t. Officials should be constantly working on eliminating conscious bias and this was a great opportunity for it. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are around the game; a fair and fundamental expectation of -ALL- fans who choose to invest their time (and sometimes money) in this league, should be unbiased, objective officiating and enforcement of the rules. What a tremendous failure in this regard.

This Patriots team was not good enough to overcome the officiating (at any point this season) but they have suffered multiple calls that ranged from "really bad" to "completely inexplicable". Dugger hold on KR against Minnesota. Henry catch against Minnesota. Cole non-catch against Vegas. Stevenson forward progress against Cincy. "Forward progress" negating fumble against Miami. I'm sure there are some more I'm missing.

Hell, take the Meyers' touchdown catch today as another example. They looked at that play for as looooooooooong as they possibly could, searching for anything that would allow them to overturn the on-field ruling of touchdown. Despite the fact there were two clear and obvious replays showing Meyers' second foot came down inbounds, the NY review room still ultimately settled on "stands as called", as opposed to confirmation. Why was that play not confirmed? One angle showed a poof of black pellets kicking up from the turf, and the other angle (pylon cam) unequivocally showed the second foot touching inbounds. That should have been "confirmed" as called. WTF?

Yes, bad/blown calls are part of the game and always will be. What I find more concerning than the occasional blown call (in real-time) is seeing multiple blown calls following a formal review.

I can live with an official getting a bang-bang judgment in real-time wrong, fine. I cannot live with blown rulings following a video review, and I don't think it's conspiratorial or far-out to be skeptical of NY's review room, given the fact they have full, complete, 100% autonomy in ruling on formal reviews (it's not a collaborative process with the on-field official; the NY review room can decide whatever they please, they have the final say). This is a huge violation of fairness/integrity and needs to be addressed (the process should be collaborative, with the on-field official ultimately having the final say in the event the NY review room and on-field official cannot agree).

NFL officiating as a whole - from the on-field calls and communication, game management, the review process, etc, needs to be revamped and overhauled next season. Get standardized, universalized cameras in all stadiums (including pylon cams), pay these guys full-time and give them extensive training. Take away full autonomy from the NY review room and make that process collaborative with on-field officials. For such a tremendous league, with tremendous history, prestige, and essentially unlimited financial resources, this is a f*cking disgrace.

 

[venecol]

Wilson just had the worst season of his career. By a lot. Mac Jones had a better season than Russell Wilson.

You're making quite the logic leap here.

They're so loaded with talent they finished 5-12 with a cake schedule (7 games against playoff teams KC, SD, SF, Ravens (Huntley), Sea, they went 2-5). Dead last in offense (32nd), and decent on defense (11th), the Patriots were better in both respects.

You're going to blame that all on the coach? Seriously? All this """"""""talent"""""""", they haven't made the playoffs since Peyton Manning retired. Only the Jets have gone longer.

Maybe he can make a difference?

Broncos Get Permission To Interview Sean Payton

Rick Spielman and Pete Prisco join Jamey Eisenberg to discuss the Broncos getting permission to interview Sean Payton.

www.cbssports.com

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Again not calling for his head but we're not any closer now than 3 years ago.

I think you are a great poster, but this seems like an odd statement. We are not in a better position to rebound than 3 years ago? This seems oddly way off base for you.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I mean, that was a perfect bomb to Parker, today, it hit him in the head. That's not a play by a #1 receiver

This is a great post. Agreed.

I think he is a good WR, but not great. At the beginning of the season I believe they were forcing him into a roll he does not fit. Later he was better as the coaching understood his role better. His role is not as a #1.

 

[Lavictoire]

Sorry if this has already been posted.

View attachment 48952

I immediately said after the opening kick-return touchdown that there was an obvious hold in the hole. Not only was there one hold, but there were 2-3 extremely egregious holds within a couple yards of the returner, just before he broke outside. There is no excuse for none of those being called.

I mean, we all knew the circumstances going into this game and some predicted imbalanced officiating, but this is absolute horsesh*t. Officials should be constantly working on eliminating conscious bias and this was a great opportunity for it. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are around the game; a fair and fundamental expectation of -ALL- fans who choose to invest their time (and sometimes money) in this league, should be unbiased, objective officiating and enforcement of the rules. What a tremendous failure in this regard.

This Patriots team was not good enough to overcome the officiating (at any point this season) but they have suffered multiple calls that ranged from "really bad" to "completely inexplicable". Dugger hold on KR against Minnesota. Henry catch against Minnesota. Cole non-catch against Vegas. Stevenson forward progress against Cincy. "Forward progress" negating fumble against Miami. I'm sure there are some more I'm missing.

Hell, take the Meyers' touchdown catch today as another example. They looked at that play for as looooooooooong as they possibly could, searching for anything that would allow them to overturn the on-field ruling of touchdown. Despite the fact there were two clear and obvious replays showing Meyers' second foot came down inbounds, the NY review room still ultimately settled on "stands as called", as opposed to confirmation. Why was that play not confirmed? One angle showed a poof of black pellets kicking up from the turf, and the other angle (pylon cam) unequivocally showed the second foot touching inbounds. That should have been "confirmed" as called. WTF?

Yes, bad/blown calls are part of the game and always will be. What I find more concerning than the occasional blown call (in real-time) is seeing multiple blown calls following a formal review.

I can live with an official getting a bang-bang judgment in real-time wrong, fine. I cannot live with blown rulings following a video review, and I don't think it's conspiratorial or far-out to be skeptical of NY's review room, given the fact they have full, complete, 100% autonomy in ruling on formal reviews (it's not a collaborative process with the on-field official; the NY review room can decide whatever they please, they have the final say). This is a huge violation of fairness/integrity and needs to be addressed (the process should be collaborative, with the on-field official ultimately having the final say in the event the NY review room and on-field official cannot agree).

NFL officiating as a whole - from the on-field calls and communication, game management, the review process, etc, needs to be revamped and overhauled next season. Get standardized, universalized cameras in all stadiums (including pylon cams), pay these guys full-time and give them extensive training. Take away full autonomy from the NY review room and make that process collaborative with on-field officials. For such a tremendous league, with tremendous history, prestige, and essentially unlimited financial resources, this is a f*cking disgrace.

"I can live with an official getting a bang-bang judgment in real-time wrong, fine. I cannot live with blown rulings following a video review," AMEN! and no more communiccations between referees on th field and league executives in New York.....what could go wrong?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I'm looking for a good explanation of some Mac observations I've had, and others have, but the discourse would either fizzle out or go in a non-constructive direction.

What exactly is up with Mac's throwing? I know keywords like velocity have been used, arm strength, etc. - but then there are some folks who immediately refute each point. I'm not asking for someone to respond to this with "it's because they're mac homers", I assume there's just more nuance to it. and maybe a few questions will help:

His tosses do seem to have a touch more of an arc, and therefore hang in the air a bit more. I feel like this is why we're a bit more effective on bigger plays than quick routes. Is this an arm strength problem? I could see a scenario in which, if you don't have the right velocity, it's actually pretty hard to do those shorter passes because your windows are both shorter and the radius is smaller.

Or is this a "processing what's on the field" issue? Does he not process information quickly enough to get into that rhythm?

It felt like today was probably the best pass-outing we've gotten from Mac, and I could be wrong, but even intermediate passes were more developed routes, nothing super quickly timed. I have a lot of work I gotta do on Sundays so I can't watch as closely as I'd like.

Also, when the receiver is wide open, it seems like the ball takes just a hair too long to get there and eats up the opportunity for YAC. Is this true? Or is this a scheming issue?

I will totally concede to being objectively wrong, as I could just be looking for things to criticize. Just would like a nuanced take on this.

Not sure if anyone responded to your post, but I wanted to because I agree and thought it was a great post. Sorry, but I am not the one to answer your questions definitively. I saw the same things you saw. I will add that Mac sometimes zips the ball, so why not more frequently?

I also wanted to differentiate "processes what is on the field" and "sees the field". Mac sees the field well as evidenced by his pass behind Thornton to keep Tyquan from being killed. My guess is that Mac sees a lot, and will see more as he progresses, but is still a step slow processing it all. Hence his passes are a slight bit off in the various ways you mention. I think throwing too soft a pass, a slightly late pass, and frustrating miss timed check downs, are all due to the same thing. I think Mac processes everything a tick too slowly leading to various "ball delivery" anomalies. I am hopeful this mostly goes away next year as Mac should process faster in Y3.