1/1/23 Dolphins @ Patriots pregame thread

[ashley]

 

[VJCPatriot]

Losing Jack Jones is a really bad sign for this game. Tyreek Hill or Jaylen Waddle could go off on us in a huge way.

I'd love to say "Squish the Fish" but the realist in me says we lose this game in typical fashion - defense doing its best to keep us in this and the pathetic offense falling flat on its face in the big moments.

Dolphins 27 - Patriots 20.

It's time to end the Matt Patricia/Joe Judge/Mac Jones experiment. BB is just unwilling to make changes until the season is over and we miss out on the playoffs. Sad to waste Mac Jones development in this way. Maybe he never had it in him to be the #1 QB for New England in the first place. But certainly with the coaching he's been given this year, he never even had a realistic chance to prove he could be the guy.

Meanwhile Bailey Zappe is pulling splinters out of his butt on the bench thinking to himself - what's a guy gotta do to get onto the field when the starter sucks this hard?

 

[Ross12]

tough break for Jack:

That sucks. It seemed like a minor issue a couple weeks ago. Now he’s out the rest of the year even if they make the postseason somehow. Not great.

Perhaps they are throwing in the towel to an extent on this season and just want to get some live reps in their system on Hayes to see if he’s worth keeping in 2023. They’ll need guys at DB.

 

[signbabybrady]

That sucks. It seemed like a minor issue a couple weeks ago. Now he’s out the rest of the year even if they make the postseason somehow. Not great.

Perhaps they are throwing in the towel to an extent on this season and just want to get some live reps in their system on Hayes to see if he’s worth keeping in 2023. They’ll need guys at DB.

I assume he'd be eligible after 3 games if we somehow got there

 

[PatsFan2]

tough break for Jack:

That is absolutely terrible news.

 

[Real fan 02]

This wasn't so much a criticism of those guys as much as a plea for a taller CB to face the WR1 if the team plans on being a contender.

Jo Jones is a good fast slot CB but asking him to cover a WR1 on an island just isn't going to work. I love Marcus. He brings so much energy to the team, is versatile and super fast. But again, putting a 5'8" CB on a 6'4" WR1 isn't fair to him and the reason he allowed 10/10 receptions. I see him as the future slot CB.

Facts spoken! I believe Marcus Jones is becoming a transcendent athlete in the NFL playing in all 3 phases and being able make plays on all phases. If this continues he has created the mold for teams to covet athletes with elite speed like him that can do what he does. Just my opinions..

I beleive Jon Jones will be retained, I beleive he wants to be here. He's tough, gritty, competes, and his physicality is something you just can't coach!

It's going to be a wonder what BB feels he wants M. Jones to focus on.. defense and return game? Offense and return game?

I know if it's Offense .. next season Billy O will have this kid being an all-pro level player.. his speed is elite!

 

[Real fan 02]

I assume he'd be eligible after 3 games if we somehow got there

Yeah that does suck, the kid was having a great year.. he was coming on strong and making his presence felt.. I hope it's not an ACL, as alot of players were having issues that game against Arizona with the field conditions..

 

[signbabybrady]

Yeah that does suck, the kid was having a great year.. he was coming on strong and making his presence felt.. I hope it's not an ACL, as alot of players were having issues that game against Arizona with the field conditions..

Players with ACL injuries don't typically try and play through it and land on IR weeks later. Mankins, I think maybe Rivers, and I'm sure a few others have played on them but that is not typical.

 

[Tunescribe]

I agree with you on this one 100%. Mac has been very good from a clean pocket. However, at the sign of the slightest pressure (even if that pressure is imagined in his mind) he panics and it all falls apart. Not a good combination for a team with a bad offensive line this year.

Aside from what the astounding gift of omniscience tells you ("even if that pressure is imagined in his mind"), what else would you guess has precipitated Mac's poor performance under pressure this season? That is, in addition to his alleged imagination leading to panic.

I've seen him stand in the pocket and take hellacious hits delivering the ball both last season and this season. That includes one leading to a high ankle sprain shelving him three games. But as the stats certainly bear out, Mac has not done well vs. the blitz or with protection failing. You suggest he becomes a basket case at the slightest sign of pressure which is "not a good combination with a bad offensive line." That implies two separate factors, not cause and effect. Is this what you believe?

 

[SVN]

Curran: If the Patriots were going to get better, it would've happened by now

Each week with the season still in their control, the Patriots seem incapable of putting together a complete performance. As Tom E. Curran writes in his Dolphins-Pats preview, it’s hard to imagine the “complete” game happening on Sunday.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Ross12]

Aside from what the astounding gift of omniscience tells you ("even if that pressure is imagined in his mind"), what else would you guess has precipitated Mac's poor performance under pressure this season? That is, in addition to his alleged imagination leading to panic.

I've seen him stand in the pocket and take hellacious hits delivering the ball both last season and this season. That includes one leading to a high ankle sprain shelving him three games. But as the stats certainly bear out, Mac has not done well vs. the blitz or with protection failing. You suggest he becomes a basket case at the slightest sign of pressure which is "not a good combination with a bad offensive line." That implies two separate factors, not cause and effect. Is this what you believe?

In my opinion, he wasn’t as bad in a messy pocket last year and it got worse as the OL play degraded this year and he took more hits. It’s possible he improves after an off-season away from getting hit and getting things reset, but at the moment his internal panic meter is a bit short. Could be two separate things or could be a direct correlation to the line play but his movement in the pocket has never looked that fluid to me, he’s a little bit jumpy like Peyton.

 

[Tunescribe]

In my opinion, he wasn’t as bad in a messy pocket last year and it got worse as the OL play degraded this year and he took more hits. It’s possible he improves after an off-season away from getting hit and getting things reset, but at the moment his internal panic meter is a bit short. Could be two separate things or could be a direct correlation to the line play but his movement in the pocket has never looked that fluid to me, he’s a little bit jumpy like Peyton.

OK, this makes a bit more sense than your first take. I just get sick of the "panic/bad pocket presence" narrative pushed by the rabid anti-Mac faction soiling this forum. As if between 2021 and 2022 the kid lost all nerve and became a sniveling coward all by his lonesome. To me, it's clear that shaky OL play combined with a poorly designed, poorly executed passing game has caused Mac to lose confidence and trust in what's happening around him. Consequently, and understandably, he's gotten gun-shy. If he had more experience and wasn't in his second year still learning the pro game, perhaps more "blame" could be laid at his feet for not transcending these difficulties.

 

[signbabybrady]

Facts spoken! I believe Marcus Jones is becoming a transcendent athlete in the NFL playing in all 3 phases and being able make plays on all phases. If this continues he has created the mold for teams to covet athletes with elite speed like him that can do what he does. Just my opinions..

I beleive Jon Jones will be retained, I beleive he wants to be here. He's tough, gritty, competes, and his physicality is something you just can't coach!

It's going to be a wonder what BB feels he wants M. Jones to focus on.. defense and return game? Offense and return game?

I know if it's Offense .. next season Billy O will have this kid being an all-pro level player.. his speed is elite!

I don't think they're going to reinvent the wheel here he is very like being groomed to be one our starting corners. I can't imagine shutting this down to try him as a full time reciever that seems nuts.

I think you can probably keep a small package of offensive plays but I expect the bigger his role gets on defense his role on STs will probably get smaller maybe just one return unit.

 

[Boomer B]

Facts spoken! I believe Marcus Jones is becoming a transcendent athlete in the NFL playing in all 3 phases and being able make plays on all phases. If this continues he has created the mold for teams to covet athletes with elite speed like him that can do what he does. Just my opinions..

I beleive Jon Jones will be retained, I beleive he wants to be here. He's tough, gritty, competes, and his physicality is something you just can't coach!

It's going to be a wonder what BB feels he wants M. Jones to focus on.. defense and return game? Offense and return game?

I know if it's Offense .. next season Billy O will have this kid being an all-pro level player.. his speed is elite!

He's not built to be on offence the whole time. He's 5'8 175lbs. If you expect Jones to be a full time offensive starter he'll be on IR by game 3.

 

[Real fan 02]

Players with ACL injuries don't typically try and play through it and land on IR weeks later. Mankins, I think maybe Rivers, and I'm sure a few others have played on them but that is not typical.

Yes, of course. I was just saying as far as next season.. Sometimes players don't necessarily know the full extent of injuries right away... Sometimes.

you mentioned Mankins for example..
went a whole season and rivers gutted it out during that 08 AFC championship game. Sometimes it's not an ACL tear it could be a sprain or meniscus. I Know Lamar has been out with a PCL sprain.

 

[Real fan 02]

I don't think they're going to reinvent the wheel here he is very like being groomed to be one our starting corners. I can't imagine shutting this down to try him as a full time reciever that seems nuts.

I think you can probably keep a small package of offensive plays but I expect the bigger his role gets on defense his role on STs will probably get smaller maybe just one return unit.

I don't anything is nuts, to be honest. Not with the patriots! Lol, Edelman played corner against Baltimore for stretches, Troy brown played reciever, retuner and corner.

Seymour played fullback.. Vrabel played TE. So as I mentioned when you have elite speed and the coaches see you can be utilized In different areas then that's a bonus for the player. I'm just saying particularly with the patriots! BB even said this season the only reason he isn't on offense alot more is because it's too much to ask him to learn the entire reciever playbook while he has to perform all his other responsibilities. Meanwhile the kid only has a TD on offense, defense and ST this season. I say transcendent because this just isn't seen in the 2022-23 NFL. But your right small packages on offense would be expected going forward.

 

[Real fan 02]

He's not built to be on offence the whole time. He's 5'8 175lbs. If you expect Jones to be a full time offensive starter he'll be on IR by game 3.

I get it, he is small I was just saying it's what the coaches and BB decide to ask of him.. it's not what I expect.. did we expect him to have TDS on all 3 phases he's played in this season? He's special and I'm sure the team will keep him in roles that best utilize his skills and elite speed..

 

[Uptown]

 

[PScottman]

To me, it's clear that shaky OL play combined with a poorly designed, poorly executed passing game has caused Mac to lose confidence and trust in what's happening around him. Consequently, and understandably, he's gotten gun-shy.

Add this lack of confidence to the also preached "cannot under any circumstances turn the ball over" and what options does the QB have? He can't throw unless the target is open by three steps or more and he can't run or move because that's "panic".

I guess he could pooch kick it - that might be the only other option to move the ball somehow, even if it is just to the other team.

It was the exact same way last year - when the OL was consistently giving him a league average time to throw he performed, but when it was every 2d or third play someone was slamming into him after his second step back from center his internal clock lost synch and he wasn't able to perform (which BTW you put ANY QB, even the greats, into that scenario and their internal clock and confidence will suffer too).

I still maintain Mac is a middle of the road QB. He's not a carry any team he's on QB (never has been). But add in a terrible OC and frequently terrible OL and that middle of the road has too many oncoming semis for anyone to avoid being splattered by.

 

[Triumph]

Marcus Jones out too.

This means that the Pats offense must score TDs.