Mac Jones' Last Five Games - 2022 vs 2021

[Rob0729]

I wasn't going to jump in on this, but I got called out so I will. No offense Ian, I don't like thread like these. I think arbitrarily taking chunks of seasons and analyzing them are an exercise of futility.

Hell, look at the last five games last year. People talk about how bad Jones was even though he had arguably the best game of his career during that five game stretch. People dismiss it because it is the Jags, but you might be able to dismiss how well he played but not that he played well. Ironically, these are the same people who say that because Zappe played so well against the Browns that he is a starting QB with "it".

There are so many things that go into Jones' play in both five games stretches that affects his performances each year. You have to look how the defenses (is he playing with a lead or in a competitive game or is he trying to huck the ball around to try to erase a massive deficit) are performing or what defense he is facing. And there are many other factors outside Jones' abilities and play that affects his numbers.

But as to the OCs (since I was called out from that), I think when Jones played bad last year it was despite good coaching and when he played well this year it was despite awful coaching.

 

[Ian]

I wasn't going to jump in on this, but I got called out so I will. No offense Ian, I don't like thread like these. I think arbitrarily taking chunks of seasons and analyzing them are an exercise of futility.

Hell, look at the last five games last year. People talk about how bad Jones was even though he had arguably the best game of his career during that five game stretch. People dismiss it because it is the Jags, but you might be able to dismiss how well he played but not that he played well. Ironically, these are the same people who say that because Zappe played so well against the Browns that he is a starting QB with "it".

There are so many things that go into Jones' play in both five games stretches that affects his performances each year. You have to look how the defenses (is he playing with a lead or in a competitive game or is he trying to huck the ball around to try to erase a massive deficit) are performing or what defense he is facing. And there are many other factors outside Jones' abilities and play that affects his numbers.

But as to the OCs (since I was called out from that), I think when Jones played bad last year it was despite good coaching and when he played well this year it was despite awful coaching.

Obviously can't do a season-to-date comparison since he was hurt. And given that he took a lot of criticism for that stretch last year, it was a fair enough comparison.

I have the week-by-week records of all the NFL teams they played last year. I'll probably create something to be able to run that at some point to show what the records were of those opponents against this year's at the same point in the season for the sake of tightening up any similar comparisons moving forward.

Here's another bit of information. Albeit it apparently irritates people about the guy showing improvement:



Otherwise, yeah, definitely a weird time we live in these days.

 

[chasa]

LOL, I can't believe I live in a world where we have people actively rooting against the team's quarterback or trying to come up with ways to look at the totals to manipulate them to make him look worse. If anyone had told me that would be the case 20+ years ago when I put this place together, I never would have believed it. It's like some bizarre alternate universe.

we're the most spoiled fanbase on the planet.

Any other team doing the **** out team is doing to our 2nd year QB, who basically benched our #1 reciever, and brought in a DC to coach offense would be losing their **** on the coaching staff.

Instead we have a bunch of mouth breathers that spend their every waking hour trying to kick mac out the door.

These clowns scream that mac should have tackled or Tripped chandler jones one week, and then crucify him a week later for going low on a defensive player.

nothing he does will ever be good enough for these absolute morons, because they still have the taste of brady's taint in their mouths and they will do literally anything to get another hit,.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

It's funny that you say that because I was thinking about it and forgot they've had a couple of games where they were going in for the go-ahead score, and both Damien Harris (last year's opener) or Rhamondre Stevenson (this past weekend) fumbled. I think there may have been another as well where they lost the ball late...I'd have to go back and look. Obviously, those aren't on him, but it's certainly spoiled a couple of wins that would have fallen into that category with drives he had put together.

Raiders game! Short memory, that's a good thing.

Also hold on, how are we talking about any position other than kicker? I mean we can do both. But dang

 

[Ian]

Raiders game! Short memory, that's a good thing.

Also hold on, how are we talking about any position other than kicker? I mean we can do both. But dang

They weren't inside the opponent's red zone and potentially going in for a touchdown in that one. They were at the Bengals' 5yd line last weekend and at Miami's 11 in the opener the year before.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

we're the most spoiled fanbase on the planet.

Any other team doing the **** out team is doing to our 2nd year QB, who basically benched our #1 reciever, and brought in a DC to coach offense would be losing their **** on the coaching staff.

Instead we have a bunch of mouth breathers that spend their every waking hour trying to kick mac out the door.

These clowns scream that mac should have tackled or Tripped chandler jones one week, and then crucify him a week later for going low on a defensive player.

nothing he does will ever be good enough for these absolute morons, because they still have the taste of brady's taint in their mouths and they will do literally anything to get another hit,.

We benched arguably our number 1, but I'd argue that's Meyers.... though they bring different things.

But your main point is pretty good. Like anybody I want to minimize time "in the wilderness" but not stupidly.

Oh it was sweet to think it would be great if Mac were the guy, and it would be okay if he cut-and-dried weren't even a plausible NFL QB. But he's that agonizing in-between. He's a guy who might become the guy, but with the understanding that we will never have a guy who is as much the guy in our lives as we are used to seeing. In fact, those under 30 don't even understand what they're complaining about. In their "aware" lives they have only seen Brady and the last three years. One bad, one promising, one the apparent collapse of the promise of year 2.

I agree that the window selected is, well, selective. Or, by the same token, he was in a slump, then he came out of it.

I think he has to legit compete for the job in camp this year, but assuming he keeps it, I hope we see the right trajectory. But he's pretty much out of warning track.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

They weren't inside the opponent's red zone and potentially going in for a touchdown in that one. They were at the Bengals' 5yd line last weekend and at Miami's 11 in the opener the year before.

yeah, that didn't necessarily spoil a win late, but it spoiled a shot at a win and handed the game to LV instead.

 

[Ring 6]

LOL, I can't believe I live in a world where we have people actively rooting against the team's quarterback or trying to come up with ways to look at the totals to manipulate them to make him look worse. If anyone had told me that would be the case 20+ years ago when I put this place together, I never would have believed it. It's like some bizarre alternate universe.

perfect example of why I no longer post here. It has changed from
Patsfans.com to patshaters.com

 

[Triumph]

It's sort of funny, last year at this time, I don't recall the ire being that bad and he's been better over this stretch #s wise this year than he was last year, which I hadn't realized, especially turnover-wise.

Obviously, Zappe playing was a nice reassurance that maybe they potentially have someone who can step in if they need somebody, which takes care of the uncertainty we had with Hoyer. Instead, it solved one problem but muddied the situation with Mac in a transition year where we were all hoping he'd have an opportunity to take a step forward. In all honesty, watching weeks 1-3 two nights ago, it wasn't as bad as I remembered it. The three picks in the Baltimore game capped it off but when you factor in that 4 of those 5 picks (2 of 3 against the Ravens) were on attempts to Parker, that added some context. Albeit, I'd put 2 of 5 of them on Mac - he's not without blame.

But Belichick playing him against the Bears was a massive mistake, because that night really split the fan base and likely affected Mac's performance until Belichick ultimately got things back under control. Yes, I get that he should be able to handle it. It doesn't change the fact that 60k people screaming for the other guy likely didn't sit well. That apparently happened recently at Gillette against Cincy but we couldn't - or at least I couldn't - audibly hear it on the broadcast. We heard it clearly that night. He's put in the work and he's making the effort, but the fact he hasn't had someone who really understands an offense pushing him this year has also likely held him back.

Clearly, he's not Brady. He's not an elite QB, certainly not yet and maybe he won't be, I have zero idea. And yes, that's what we are "stuck with" right now because, to put it in perspective - if you want to make the parallel comparison - Zappe is essentially 2000 Brady. 2000 Brady wouldn't have taken us anywhere.

That's not to say he can't emerge at some point. Again, with a full offseason and a chance to get stronger, he could become a factor later on. But the mindset, for people who are fans of the team, should be to at least support the guy under center and hope he plays well so the team wins. We'll have the whole offseason to complain, and by the next training camp, it will be a more competitive situation if that's ultimately what it comes down to.

But actively rooting against the guy is a little mindblowing. Not saying you're necessarily doing that, but it's happening enough where I'm just shocked it's even going on. Like I said, definitely never would have imagined it would've happened. It's certainly a little crazy.

Lets say that we go back to 2001 knowing what we know now?

Bledsoe does not get injured and the Pats offense limps through the season sputtering and stalling out kinda like this offense. Barely at .500, the Pats have 2 games left and they can make the postseason if they win both these games. Trouble is that the last game is vs a team who has the QBs number. BB would like to make a QB change because Bledsoe is not doing his job, but he cant. You see Bledsoe was a 1st round pick and the Pats just signed him to a new 100 million dollar contract. He is the future and the franchise - "The Guy". The fanbase and city of Boston are in love with Drew Bledsoe too. Like the Red Sox, Bledsoe can lose as much as he wants and the fans will turn out to see him.

You're a troll on Patsfans if you want anyone else at QB for the Pats.

BB has another option at QB who looked good in camp, but he is only a 6th round pick.

Should BB just stay the course and lose with Bledsoe sorting it all out in 2022 between Brady and Bledsoe? Yes. Too bad for all the other players, coaches, support staff, etc working endless hours to try and win the most games as possible now. The team is banged up, but in relative good health right now, but they will be next season too - maybe. We must keep Drew Bledsoe in his rightful place above all else and not rock the boat. We will probably lose with Brady anyway so why even go there.

 

[crawhammer]

This is the hope of those that believe Belichick can win with just a guy along with, like you say, a strong defense.

What evidence is there in BB's entire head coaching career that he can win with "just a guy at quarterback and a strong defense." Give me one example and I'll consider it. Otherwise, he can't. In fact the vast majority of head coaches throughout the history of the NFL can't win with "just a guy." BB is no different.

I think he is playing well now, and has been most of the season. His last int was 1 where his arm was hit from behind (his blind side) was how long ago? I think that with most QBs we would be 5-10 or worse.

So your argument here is that the Patriots with their other option at quarterback (Zappe) would have a worse record than 7-8. Please explain how that works with Zappe being 2-0 as a starter while Mac is 5-7. And how that works when Zappe has better stats than Mac and the offense has looked it's best with Zappe. I just don't know what you're possibly basing this on. Mac is 6-11 in his last 17 starts.

Beyond just Zappe vs Mac, you say "with most (other) QBs" the Patriots would have a worse record than 7-8. You realize Mac is the 27th rated QB in the NFL, right? Mac has the second fewest TDs per start of any QB with 10 or more starts... only Kenny Pickett is lower. Honestly I can easily name 15 QBs that likely would have a better record than 7-8.

It's funny that you say that because I was thinking about it and forgot they've had a couple of games where they were going in for the go-ahead score, and both Damien Harris (last year's opener) or Rhamondre Stevenson (this past weekend) fumbled. I think there may have been another as well where they lost the ball late...I'd have to go back and look. Obviously, those aren't on him, but it's certainly spoiled a couple of wins that would have fallen into that category with drives he had put together.

There's a reason why the Patriots opt for running the ball in the red zone. Mac is the 35th ranked QB in the red zone. A few QBs who rank just ahead of him... Mitch Trubisky, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Kenny Pickett, Russell Wilson and Zach Wilson (ugh!). And only Kenny Pickett has fewer TDs per pass attempt in the red zone.

Mac has 4 red zone TDs this season with 1 INT. By comparison, Mahomes has 31 TDs and 2 INTs, Lawrence has 20 TDs and 3 INTs, and "washed up" Brady has 19 TDs and 0 INTs.

 

[Tunescribe]

What evidence is there in BB's entire head coaching career that he can win with "just a guy at quarterback and a strong defense." Give me one example and I'll consider it. Otherwise, he can't. In fact the vast majority of head coaches throughout the history of the NFL can't win with "just a guy." BB is no different.

Matt Cassel in 2008, team went 11-5.

 

[crawhammer]

Matt Cassel in 2008, team went 11-5.

What did they win in 2008? Not even a playoff spot. Don't get me going on the most overrated 11-5 of all-time. BB won 11 games with Testaverde in 1994, when at least they made the playoffs, but they really didn't win anything then either. If you're going this route then you may as well give me last season's 10-7 with Mac.

 

[oldrover]

In fact the vast majority of head coaches throughout the history of the NFL can't win with "just a guy." BB is no different.

Matt Cassel in 2008, team went 11-5.

And BB went 10-7 last year. That stat's for those who think Mac is "just a guy".

EDIT: crawhammer, here you go!

 

[Ian]

Lets say that we go back to 2001 knowing what we know now?

Bledsoe does not get injured and the Pats offense limps through the season sputtering and stalling out kinda like this offense. Barely at .500, the Pats have 2 games left and they can make the postseason if they win both these games. Trouble is that the last game is vs a team who has the QBs number. BB would like to make a QB change because Bledsoe is not doing his job, but he cant. You see Bledsoe was a 1st round pick and the Pats just signed him to a new 100 million dollar contract. He is the future and the franchise - "The Guy". The fanbase and city of Boston are in love with Drew Bledsoe too. Like the Red Sox, Bledsoe can lose as much as he wants and the fans will turn out to see him.

You're a troll on Patsfans if you want anyone else at QB for the Pats.

BB has another option at QB who looked good in camp, but he is only a 6th round pick.

Should BB just stay the course and lose with Bledsoe sorting it all out in 2022 between Brady and Bledsoe? Yes. Too bad for all the other players, coaches, support staff, etc working endless hours to try and win the most games as possible now. The team is banged up, but in relative good health right now, but they will be next season too - maybe. We must keep Drew Bledsoe in his rightful place above all else and not rock the boat. We will probably lose with Brady anyway so why even go there.

That's not true, and obviously, I was here during that debate - just on another server and I didn't know then what I know now where I would've been able to preserve it. Yes, the board was split, but the length of his injury (significantly longer than Mac's) and where the team was headed made the decision to stay with Brady easier for those of us - myself included - to be O.K. with it. You also had a 5-11 season the year before where Drew wasn't great and a not-so-great showing to start the season in two games in 2001. Brady also reportedly looked better in practice back then as well.

Again, also a different scenario. 2000 Brady wasn't ready. 2001 Brady was, and that's why he was the back-up at the start of the season and in that position to begin with. Zappe could very well push Jones for the job next year. But you don't cast aside a kid who won 10 games the year before and is only in his second season without at least letting him work through adversity.

 

[Tunescribe]

What did they win in 2008? Not even a playoff spot. Don't get me going on the most overrated 11-5 of all-time. BB won 11 games with Testaverde in 1994, when at least they made the playoffs, but they really didn't win anything then either. If you're going this route then you may as well give me last season's 10-7 with Mac.

Oh come on, you asked for an example of BB winning with "just a guy" at QB. That season was an impressive effort no matter how you cut it. And in 1994 he went 11-5 (plus two playoff games) with a combination of Vinny Testaverde and Mark Rypien.

 

[Tunescribe]

we're the most spoiled fanbase on the planet.

Any other team doing the **** out team is doing to our 2nd year QB, who basically benched our #1 reciever, and brought in a DC to coach offense would be losing their **** on the coaching staff.

Instead we have a bunch of mouth breathers that spend their every waking hour trying to kick mac out the door.

These clowns scream that mac should have tackled or Tripped chandler jones one week, and then crucify him a week later for going low on a defensive player.

nothing he does will ever be good enough for these absolute morons, because they still have the taste of brady's taint in their mouths and they will do literally anything to get another hit,.

Bravo!

 

[Ian]

What did they win in 2008? Not even a playoff spot. Don't get me going on the most overrated 11-5 of all-time. BB won 11 games with Testaverde in 1994, when at least they made the playoffs, but they really didn't win anything then either. If you're going this route then you may as well give me last season's 10-7 with Mac.

LOL, you're going to penalize them for winning 11 games with a 7th-round draft pick at QB who hadn't started a game since high school?

They didn't get to the playoffs because of a crazy run by Miami during a wild year:



I didn't like the decision to move on from Brady either, but it doesn't cloud my judgment in terms of logic. What they managed to do that year was impressive, especially when you take into consideration who they did it with. Doing it with Cassel is completely different than possibly having to do the same thing with Garoppolo had Brady missed all of 2016. I'd expect Garoppolo to have been able to win 11 games. I think most of us felt like 2008 was over the moment Brady went down.

Obviously, it didn't turn out like it would have had he not gotten hurt, but it definitely went better than everyone thought and saying Belichick doesn't deserve credit is a little disingenous.

 

[FCB02062]

Not a Mac Jones apologist and I really liked what I saw from Zappe...but I put 90% of Jones and the offenses shortcomings on the head coach and play caller. People forget Jones is in his second year and has been saddled with the worst offensive play caller/coaching in the league. And he has a head coach who thinks it's 1978.
Josh Allen still made bad passes and stupid plays his second year. It is just astonishing, and should be to all who care about this team, that the head coach/gm picked Matt Patricia to run his offense and commandeer their first round draft pick quarterback.
year 2 should've been a massive step forward, but Jones and the offense regressed to 1992 Pats level aesthetic. Are we watching Jeff Carlson or Mac Jones....? Mac Jones is 100% good enough to be the quarterback of a consistent playoff contender and he is certainly good to enough to guide an offense that can score 3 tds/game (they average 1.73 offensive tds/game).
Don't blame Mac Jones, blame the coaches and general manager

 

[Ian]

Not a Mac Jones apologist and I really liked what I saw from Zappe...but I put 90% of Jones and the offenses shortcomings on the head coach and play caller.

 

[crawhammer]

That's not true, and obviously, I was here during that debate - just on another server and I didn't know then what I know now where I would've been able to preserve it. Yes, the board was split, but the length of his injury (significantly longer than Mac's) and where the team was headed made the decision to stay with Brady easier for those of us - myself included - to be O.K. with it. You also had a 5-11 season the year before where Drew wasn't great and a not-so-great showing to start the season in two games in 2001. Brady also reportedly looked better in practice back then as well.

Again, also a different scenario. 2000 Brady wasn't ready. 2001 Brady was, and that's why he was the back-up at the start of the season and in that position to begin with. Zappe could very well push Jones for the job next year. But you don't cast aside a kid who won 10 games the year before and is only in his second season without at least letting him work through adversity.

People forget just how horribly bad Bledsoe was before he got benched. His last 20 starts for the Patriots he had 25 TDs and 32 INTs and the team had a 7-19 record.

I didn't like the decision to move on from Brady either, but it doesn't cloud my judgment in terms of logic. What they managed to do that year was impressive, especially when you take into consideration who they did it with. Doing it with Cassel is completely different than possibly having to do the same thing with Garoppolo had Brady missed all of 2016. I'd expect Garoppolo to have been able to win 11 games. I think most of us felt like 2008 was over the moment Brady went down.

Obviously, it didn't turn out like it would have had he not gotten hurt, but it definitely went better than everyone thought and saying Belichick doesn't deserve credit is a little disingenous.

Where do you rank the 2007 New England Patriots on the list of all-time great teams in the history of the NFL?
Then tell me where you rank the 2008 New England Patriots on that same list. And then tell me what the difference was.

Oh come on, you asked for an example of BB winning with "just a guy" at QB. That season was an impressive effort no matter how you cut it. And in 1994 he went 11-5 (plus two playoff games) with a combination of Vinny Testaverde and Mark Rypien.

Oh I'm sorry, I took you literally when you said "winning." I think at least some sort of banner needs to be achieved for actual winning but like I said, the way you're going about it, we can just cite countless examples of winning with just a guy at quarterback.

Here are a few others...

2021 Raiders: 10-7 with Jon Gruden and Derek Carr (who some are calling the second worst QB in the NFL)
2020 Dolphins: 10-6 with Brian Flores and Tua/Fitzpatrick
2019 Titans: 9-7 with Vrabel and Tannehill/Mariota

There's literally one of these soft examples for every season.