2022 OL

[40yrpatsfan]

With...
- Andrews back
- 2 weeks to tinker with the OL
- Parker back
- hopefully Damien back
- 2 more weeks to re-introduce Mac & Thornton
- some self-scouting to fix how we're tipping plays

... I think we'll see a marked improvement from the offense vs the Jets.

That said, I don't have a lot of complaints about the the past 2 weeks against the Jets and Indy. Those were 2 tough defenses with bad offenses, so our conservative game planning got us two W's.

 

[PatsFan2]

Who is coach cap?

captain stone.

 

[Wozzy]

captain stone.

Well to be fair Captain Stoned tells us all our players are bad, even the best ones.

In the midst of unprecedented winning from 2014-2018 we had no talent (beyond Tom) according to him.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day…

 

[Wozzy]

With...
- Andrews back
- 2 weeks to tinker with the OL
- Parker back
- hopefully Damien back
- 2 more weeks to re-introduce Mac & Thornton
- some self-scouting to fix how we're tipping plays

... I think we'll see a marked improvement from the offense vs the Jets.

That said, I don't have a lot of complaints about the the past 2 weeks against the Jets and Indy. Those were 2 tough defenses with bad offenses, so our conservative game planning got us two W's.

I expect this ^ especially if Yodney Cajuste can stabilize that RT position.

If Mac improves, this team could improve mightily. If he stays the same or implodes they’ll make a change at QB.

If that happens, don’t be surprised when the offensive line and team magically starts playing better. Bad QB play can make all the parts around him look a lot worse than they actually are.

 

[State]

James Ferentz gets beat on that play, it’s easy to see.

We have a high school player with better physical tools RIGHT NOW! then Thanksdad.

And if Samson Okunlola or whatever his name is played in a bigger state his elite rankings would be even more elite. He’s #16 in the nation. Should be number two after the Manning brat.

Samson Okunlola, 2023 Offensive Tackle - Rivals.com

The definitive source for all Rivals news.

n.rivals.com

This has never happened in the forty years I’ve rabidly followed the Pats. A Massachusetts high schooler could outman a NE Patriot.

 

[PatsFan2]

Well to be fair Captain Stoned tells us all our players are bad, even the best ones.

In the midst of unprecedented winning from 2014-2018 we had no talent (beyond Tom) according to him.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day…

Wozzy: Coach cap is cool he's one of the reasons why I come to this place.

 

[State]

Steuber was All Big 10 and an All American.
Coach Don Brown on Andrew Stueber
"Several offensive line coaches that I have great respect for said he is the best offensive lineman in the east. His athletic ability is the key ingredient that sets him apart from other offensive tackles."

His lack of athletic ability you mean. He compensated by being smart, tough, physical, and big.

But look at his Combine results. Average to poor.

Don Brown was the defensive coordinator at the time anyway.

A rival OT from Michigan State blows Steuber away on the scores. AJ Arcuri was taken later in the same round and draft as the more highly touted Steuber. Except Arcuri is slightly bigger, more explosive, stronger, and a smart guy, too. Just not as durable in college as Steuber.

 

[State]

know their very high on Hines as well

I am too. He’s a multiple year starter who played at a high level and set records at the buffet table—eerily similar to Onwenu.

When a guy is forty or fifty pounds overweight it scares off the NFL scouts. Like giving a good night kiss to one’s prom date with a visible cold sore.

And an injury or two could easily mean we see Onwenu moved to RT and Hines inserted at RG.

 

[State]

A TALE OF THE TAPE FOR TWO SEVENTH-ROUNDERS

* AJ Arcuri, OT (not a Combine invite).

Hand size: 11 inches
Arm length: 34.25 inches
Hometown: Powell, Ohio

6-7, 308 pounds; 33.5-inch vertical (This would have been the best in last year’s Combine.); 27 bench press reps; 9-0 broad jump.

Andrew Steuber, OT.

Hand size: 10 inches
Arm length: 34.125 inches
Hometown: Darien, Connecticut

6-6.5, 322 pounds; 24.5 vertical; 18 bench press reps; 8-5 broad jump.

Someone quotes Don Brown as saying Steuber has outstanding athleticism. Yeah, and the Newton Dairy Queen is the Taj Mahal.

These are pedestrian to poor. The percentile rankings are as follows: 24.5th, 54.5th, and 54.5th. This is for Combine participants.

So what we have here is a guard—unless you want to experiment with Steuber at tackle and see Bailey Zappe get smoked. He’s a poor man’s Jon Runyan. At best. Another highly touted Michigan tackle with excellent size but physical limitations who was kicked inside.

Steuber demonstrated his physical limitations against Georgia in the bowl game for everyone to see.

So why we’d draft a player who can only play guard after we already had drafted two earlier the same year, Strange and Hines? When we desperately needed a developmental OT in addition to Cachoo? WTH Patriots front office! Do you do your homework or just listen to homers spout off?

I know both players well. Arcuri is at least a legitimate practice squad OT who can be developed. That’s where he is on the Rams.

 

[1960Pats]

Did Byers only want to play with Parcells as well? Letting him go was also a bad move. Carroll and Grier really messed that team up.

Richie Anderson on the hand, picked Parcells over Bill who was a Super Bowl champion in 2003. What an idiotic move.

The worst move I ever saw was by a Pats fan named Richard who followed Tuna Crap and Martin to NJ. He seemed like a very nice guy but his timing in this case was horrible.

 

[1960Pats]

It's been very interesting seeing this thread for the first time and going through it all. Some of the folks here were spot on about where the OL would be and some weren't.

 

[1960Pats]

And Wynn is with the team in southern Florida but won’t practice with the team Wednesday before the first game. Important practice.

What a tiresome player. He may start but he’ll flub up a couple of times because he’s not practicing. Hopefully he won’t get the QB hurt.

I heard someone talking about an interview with Dante Scarnecchia a couple of weeks ago during which he said that Wynn is in the twilight zone. I think his implication was that Wynn's lost out there.

 

[State]

Help could be on the way. North Dakota’s Cody Mauch. Didn’t Grogan play at North Dakota? Or was it Steve Nelson?

 

[State]

I heard someone talking about an interview with Dante Scarnecchia a couple of weeks ago during which he said that Wynn is in the twilight zone. I think his implication was that Wynn's lost out there.

My thought is in his final year of his contract most players step up. I remember decades ago the immensely talented Ken Sims decided to play that year. Signed another contract. And then went back to mailing it in.

Wynn is such an interesting case. Such a stupid, self-entitled player. He is shooting himself in the foot for his next ever-diminishing contract very likely somewhere else unless he plays with his head on straight.

Perhaps he feels the LT position is his and is pouting like a brat. Good riddance.

 

[1960Pats]

Popovich was the heir apparent to Scarnecchia before the whole Covid vaccine BS. He was to be "Co-Coach" with Cam Bricillo, Popovich had the experience over Bricillo.

The O-line in 2019 was plagued by injuries which has zero to do with the coaching.
- Lost Andrews before the start of the season, forcing Karras to be the starting center.
- Wynn only played in 8 games.
- We had the pseudo-disaster of Marshall Newhouse replacing Wynn.
- Mason and Cannon played through injuries.
- No Gronk to help block. In fact, they had a carousel at TE..
- They lost Develin and Jakob Johnson to injury early on forcing Eladon Roberts to become a FB.

Even with all of that (much of which many here don't seem to remember) the team still finished at 12-4. They actually should have been 13-3 but the refs stole a game for the Chiefs in Foxboro.

 

[State]

Maybe Wynn’s problem is his chum buddy was traded. Maybe he wants to be playing in Chicago so he can smoke blunts with N’Keal.

And he wants to stay at LT. Cuz that’s what he’s always played, motherf——er.

 

[1960Pats]

Brown is signed through next season so I expect them to keep him. I would be fine with that if they have his successor on the roster next year. Although he is only 29 his injury history is more my concern than age, so “aging” was probably not a good word choice there, but the fact that he hit the open market and came back on a 2 year deal is some indication that he isn’t a player one would expect to be there for a very long time.

So yes, I want to see them greatly upgrade the OT position this offseason. I think it is the top priority for their roster, just not in the way you put it in your reply to me. I expect Wynn is going to be gone so that leaves Cannon, Cajuste, and Steuber from the current roster. They need to inject talent there, through free agency and/or the draft, without overpaying or overdrafting as they obviously have lots of other needs to address. Whoever winds up at QB needs to be in a lot better position going forward with his OL. I’m not totally sold on Mac and certainly not on Zappe but I see enough with each of them to feel they can be solid, and in Mac‘s case more than solid, if they are not in scramble mode as much as they seem to be currently.

I went back and forth in my post above about whether I feel the talent or the coaching is the #1 priority. I went with talent because at the end of the day it’s about what the players can get themselves to do. However, I’m concerned about their recent problems accomplishing things I’d expect from coaching; in particular I don’t think they are doing a good enough job developing young players or keeping penalties and turnovers to a minimum by molding their schemes to the talent they have.

My opinion has been, and always will be, that coaches don't win games, players do. Coaches can only lose them. Give me the player over the coach any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[1960Pats]

Maybe Wynn’s problem is his chum buddy was traded. Maybe he wants to be playing in Chicago so he can smoke blunts with N’Keal.

And he wants to stay at LT. Cuz that’s what he’s always played, motherf——er.

I remember hearing Rodney Harrison mention that the players wanted to be able to smoke weed and that it was an important issue for them. I remember some folks here scoffing at that idea but I think Rodney was accurate.

Btw, one of my favorite quotes about weed came from comedian Steve Harvey, who said that all the comedians that he knows who smoked weed are poor.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

His lack of athletic ability you mean. He compensated by being smart, tough, physical, and big.

But look at his Combine results. Average to poor.

Don Brown was the defensive coordinator at the time anyway.

A rival OT from Michigan State blows Steuber away on the scores. AJ Arcuri was taken later in the same round and draft as the more highly touted Steuber. Except Arcuri is slightly bigger, more explosive, stronger, and a smart guy, too. Just not as durable in college as Steuber.

The Pats have great relationships with the Alabama and Michigan coaching staff, so if they picked Stueber it was after a discussion with the Michigan coaches. They know more than we do. I agree his Combine results were not great. Sometimes it is better to pick the more productive player, not the better athlete - we learned that picking Jermaine Cunningham. There are lots and lots of amazing athletes sitting on their couches because for some reason they can not produce. Stueber was productive. We will have to wait and see. It is always easy to second guess - we can play that game all day long for every pick. The Captain is a the master of second guesses, but his second guesses are sometimes even wrong (it is tough to get a 2nd guess wrong ) - see M Onwenu - who was a 6th round MI OL guy that worked out really well after the Pats talked to the MI coaches.

 

[ashley]

Guess Onwenu is staying at Guard, where he's playing at a Pro Bowl level.