Zappe vs Mac

[venecol]

He's the only QB on the list who took his team to the playoffs...Im not ready to give up on Mac yet. Lots of QBs struggled their second year only to turn the corner in years 3 or 4

 

[PatsFanInVa]

For this fanbase especially, it's going to feel like we're bending over backwards to give the guy chances. But the Pats know the value the club had to expend on each of them respectively, and they have seen that Mac can do it, or could do it for one campaign. Now the project, all the way around, is "let's get him back to where he does do it, reliably."

Only really great players eliminate or even close to eliminate INT.s. Right now there's no excuse, in the absence of TDs on the other end of the scales, for the present frequency of them. But we as fans are spoiled. It might take a minute to get on track.

Here's some math on how it will feel. Let's say Mac gets back on track and can get us (gasp) 30 TDs in a season, but ends up with 17 Int.s. That will feel like hell to a Pats fan, because it means each week on average seeing 1-2 TDs and 1 interception, on the regular. However, that performance level might be good enough to be your SB QB, given the right pieces elsewhere. Shocking. It's not the ceiling, but it's definitely okay for now.

As much as we like to trumpet from the high heavens what level is "unacceptable" and other faux-in-control verbiage, what looks "unacceptable" to us is a more likely outcome than immediately finding another "elite" guy, especially in the short run (cue early Brady comparisons).

But that's not this -- what MJ has turned in so far this year is not getting the job done, even to that lower bar.

If he continues unimproved, I'd be for an open competition in camp, certainly. But whenever he misses time, BZ is awaiting another opportunity to prove he can belong. In one way that's a great dynamic, but if MJ IS the guy, not great for his confidence. Then again, saying "You're the chosen one" hasn't worked that well, so.

 

[Love The Drake]

For this fanbase especially, it's going to feel like we're bending over backwards to give the guy chances. But the Pats know the value the club had to expend on each of them respectively, and they have seen that Mac can do it, or could do it for one campaign. Now the project, all the way around, is "let's get him back to where he does do it, reliably."

Only really great players eliminate or even close to eliminate INT.s. Right now there's no excuse, in the absence of TDs on the other end of the scales, for the present frequency of them. But we as fans are spoiled. It might take a minute to get on track.

Here's some math on how it will feel. Let's say Mac gets back on track and can get us (gasp) 30 TDs in a season, but ends up with 17 Int.s. That will feel like hell to a Pats fan, because it means each week on average seeing 1-2 TDs and 1 interception, on the regular. However, that performance level might be good enough to be your SB QB, given the right pieces elsewhere. Shocking. It's not the ceiling, but it's definitely okay for now.

As much as we like to trumpet from the high heavens what level is "unacceptable" and other faux-in-control verbiage, what looks "unacceptable" to us is a more likely outcome than immediately finding another "elite" guy, especially in the short run (cue early Brady comparisons).

But that's not this -- what MJ has turned in so far this year is not getting the job done, even to that lower bar.

If he continues unimproved, I'd be for an open competition in camp, certainly. But whenever he misses time, BZ is awaiting another opportunity to prove he can belong. In one way that's a great dynamic, but if MJ IS the guy, not great for his confidence. Then again, saying "You're the chosen one" hasn't worked that well, so.

Solution is to bench him he can be a guy who everyone likes and a great locker room guy we can make him a ball boy for Zappe who could aspire to become a coach.
That was the Mcdaniels career path.

 

[venecol]

Here's some math on how it will feel. Let's say Mac gets back on track and can get us (gasp) 30 TDs in a season, but ends up with 17 Int.s. That will feel like hell to a Pats fan, because it means each week on average seeing 1-2 TDs and 1 interception, on the regular.

Your math sucks. For Mac to get to 30 TDs, he'd have to throw 3 per game in the remaining 9 games. He did that 3 times last season (Jets, Jags, Browns). I'd be surprised if he reaches the 22 from last season. He's on pace for 20 Ints (1.4/gm). Even if he just avgs 1 per game, it'll give him 16 Ints. He had 13 last season.

 

[Triumph]

I want to change my vote.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

See my hope is somehow Zappe shows Bill he is that guy.
Whether it’s inept play by mac during a game or Zappe wows BB In a practice or film session.
I think Zappe is a much better Quarterback.

Today's game is obviously suited to Mahomes/Allen types-and Bailey is much more like them than Mac.

Eluding the pressure and getting the ball to receivers sounds obvious. Defenses today simply can't beat people up like they used to. Belichick is smart enough to come up with something, but it may not be enough. Helps to have at least one dominant star that you can build around.

Jones can succeed. But he has to play within his abilities, and not try to exceed them.

 

[Betterthanmost]

Sports Illustrated New England Patriots News, Analysis and More

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[Tunescribe]

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Legarrette smokes a lot of ganja.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Your math sucks. For Mac to get to 30 TDs, he'd have to throw 3 per game in the remaining 9 games. He did that 3 times last season (Jets, Jags, Browns). I'd be surprised if he reaches the 22 from last season. He's on pace for 20 Ints (1.4/gm). Even if he just avgs 1 per game, it'll give him 16 Ints. He had 13 last season.

A season of 30 TDs, in a given season, means an average of 1-2 TDs per game, in 17 games. A season of 17 interceptions in 17 games is 1 interception per game.

I was characterizing what Pats fans will have to realize is a realistic expectation. Better is better, of course. Less good is worse. Water is wet. You don't read well.

 

[venecol]

A season of 30 TDs, in a given season, means an average of 1-2 TDs per game, in 17 games. A season of 17 interceptions in 17 games is 1 interception per game.

I was characterizing what Pats fans will have to realize is a realistic expectation. Better is better, of course. Less good is worse. Water is wet. You don't read well.

Ok, I thought you meant this season. I would take a 30 TD/17 Int season all day long. That would be a 4.3% improvement from the '21 TD/Int ratio. Right now we're at (-) 52.7% including Zappe's #s.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Ok, I thought you meant this season. I would take a 30 TD/17 Int season all day long. That would be a 4.3% improvement from the '21 TD/Int ratio. Right now we're at (-) 52.7% including Zappe's #s.

I could have been clearer.

I would take it all day long too. I want another elite QB -- and yes, that can happen fast, or it can take time. I'll take a check in the QB box.

On the flip, whattaya want to bet it's not as bad as the Cam year?

I'd love to see a good performance Sunday. I hate that at this point I expect at least 1 int. I just hope it's not a bad one. And to be really ambitious, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[RIpats88]

Almost no teams give up on their first round pick 4 games into their second season. It just doesn't happen. You still don't know what you do or don't have evencif they steuggle

Mac will get the rest of this year and probably next year to see if he has improved or at least figured it out. Each season is it's own entity

Jaylen Hurts and Tua are an example of why you don't give up on your 1st round pick QBs. Both looked pretty unspectacular in their second years. And the media basically said both teams should cut bait. Now in their third year they are thriving. Sometimes it takes players abit to put it together. Also doesn't hurt that their teams got them AJ brown and Hill.

Or sometimes they never do. But if you goal is to "develop" a player and see what they become. You don't can them the first mistake they make and go to a backup who they clearly feel has limitations

 

[IcyPatriot]

 

[jah]

Almost no teams give up on their first round pick 4 games into their second season. It just doesn't happen. You still don't know what you do or don't have evencif they steuggle

Mac will get the rest of this year and probably next year to see if he has improved or at least figured it out. Each season is it's own entity

Jaylen Hurts and Tua are an example of why you don't give up on your 1st round pick QBs. Both looked pretty unspectacular in their second years. And the media basically said both teams should cut bait. Now in their third year they are thriving. Sometimes it takes players abit to put it together. Also doesn't hurt that their teams got them AJ brown and Hill.

Or sometimes they never do. But if you goal is to "develop" a player and see what they become. You don't can them the first mistake they make and go to a backup who they clearly feel has limitations

I'm not ready to give up on Mac yet, but neither Hurts nor Tua ever went through a stretch even remotely as bad as the one Mac's been in since late 2021.

 

[upstater1]

I'm not ready to give up on Mac yet, but neither Hurts nor Tua ever went through a stretch even remotely as bad as the one Mac's been in since late 2021.

Tua went 3 TDs and 5 INTs over the 5 games ending his 1st year and beginning his 2nd year.

Jalen Hurts was 6-5 over that 5 game stretch.

Mac Jones was 6-8 over a 6 game stretch.

These numbers may not be exact or even comparable depending on who is looking at them, but with all the variables involved (receivers you're throwing to, coaches, new systems etc.) I wouldn't put emphasis on it to declare this a cut and dry reason why you give up on QBs.

Some of the top QBs in the league right now (rating) had their initial teams give up on them:

4. Geno Smith
7. Jimmy Garoppolo
8. Andy Dalton
11. Jared Goff
12. Ryan Tannehill
13. Marcus Mariota
16. Kirk Cousins

All of these guys are doing better than Matthew Stafford who got traded for a bazillion draft picks.

A couple of these guys took their teams to Super Bowls and lost.

 

[JMC00]

Saw this stat, Jones is 206 yards shy of 5,000 career passing yards entering his 23rd career game. If done this Sunday against the Colts, he will be the second-fastest to 5,000 passing yards in Patriots history -- Drew Bledsoe did it in 22 games.

 

[captain stone]

Legarrette smokes a lot of ganja.

Pass the Blount!

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Wait, with Mac playing or on the sidelines?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Wait, with Mac playing or on the sidelines

Saw this stat, Jones is 206 yards shy of 5,000 career passing yards entering his 23rd career game. If done this Sunday against the Colts, he will be the second-fastest to 5,000 passing yards in Patriots history -- Drew Bledsoe did it in 22 games.

Passing yardage inflation is obviously not indicative of winning.

 

[PatsFan2]

Wait, with Mac playing or on the sidelines

Passing yardage inflation is obviously not indicative of winning.

What thought we had inferior talent??