Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Dolphins beat the Pats

[ashley]

Neither of these guys were or are critical.

We all know the Patriots played with 3 WRs who are more 3rd receivers than top guys.

As for Mason, he showed last night why he and his contract are no longer with us. He really struggles to pass block. Brady was under pressure mainly because of the backup LT and RG.

I seriously do not think THIS season or the future of this team has much to do with these two guys

Mason struggled last year for us and was beaten regularly in pass blocking. Anyone who thinks otherwise, wasn't watching our games at all.

 

[Deus Irae]

Neither of these guys were or are critical.

Depends on how you define critical, but your initial point was not getting why they'd be bemoaned ("We're bemoaning the lack of Ted Karras? Shaq Mason? and K Bourne? Seriously?").


It's obvious why they'd be bemoaned, and it's reasonable if people are doing so after that performance yesterday.

 

[chasa]

To be more precise why couldn't he last year?

To be more precise why couldn't he last year?

Dude I'm not going to do you're own homework for you.

Boxscore says Bourne is better. 66 less yards on 50+ less targets.
Almost 5 yards per catch more then Myers.

Myers is a really good #3. Bourne is a solid #2

Bourne deserves more then 2 snaps a game. Simple cut and dry. We saw the play making in 2 plays that bourn got yesterday. He needs to be on the field more, and saying otherwise has some REAL big "Sony Michel is better then Damian Harris" vibes.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Mason struggled last year for us and was beaten regularly in pass blocking. Anyone who thinks otherwise, wasn't watching our games at all.

PFF ranked him the #2 G in the NFL.

 

[Ian]

Wait, so you think that a team losing the TO battle 3-0 is a team that's better prepared because that's what my post said. McDaniel's team was better prepared. Clearly.

I wouldn't say they were better prepared, but they definitely executed better. The defense held the Dolphins to 13 points and they lost the turnover battle, which was big - and that fact definitely played a significant role in the outcome. If they finish that first drive and don't lose the ball on the strip sack, that changes everything. Instead, the Dolphins made a couple of good plays, so give them credit.

Not to mention holding out Bourne, which was awful because it left Meyers alone to work the middle of the field and Jones didn't really have the time to get the ball down the field on the perimeter. Parker isn't an inside quick guy, that's not his thing. I get that there's something going on there and it was for disciplinary reasons, but they don't have the luxury right now to endure that beyond this past Sunday. Pittsburgh's secondary looked tough, and they'll need all the help they can get this weekend.

 

[chasa]

To be more precise why couldn't he last year?

changed my mind, Did your homework:

Jakobi Meyers Stats & Fantasy Ranking - PlayerProfiler

Jakobi Meyers player profile featuring career stats, fantasy ranking, & analytics data. See combine scores, SPARQ, measurables, and comparable players.

www.playerprofiler.com

Kendrick Bourne Stats & Fantasy Ranking - PlayerProfiler

Kendrick Bourne player profile featuring career stats, fantasy ranking, & analytics data. See combine scores, SPARQ, measurables, and comparable players.

www.playerprofiler.com

Myers separation rating 1.6
Bourne separation Rating 1.7

Bourne ranked 31st in separation
Myers ranked 53rd in separation

So I guess ill ask you, Why isn't bourne playing more then 2 snaps if he gets better separation, has better Yards per catch, Has a higher Catch %?

 

[Deus Irae]

I wouldn't say they were better prepared, but they definitely executed better. The defense held the Dolphins to 13 points and they lost the turnover battle, which was big - and that fact definitely played a significant role in the outcome. If they finish that first drive and don't lose the ball on the strip sack, that changes everything. Instead, the Dolphins made a couple of good plays, so give them credit.

Not to mention holding out Bourne, which was awful because it left Meyers alone to work the middle of the field and Jones didn't really have the time to get the ball down the field on the perimeter. Parker isn't an inside quick guy, that's not his thing. I get that there's something going on there and it was for disciplinary reasons, but they don't have the luxury right now to endure that beyond this past Sunday. Pittsburgh's secondary looked tough, and they'll need all the help they can get this weekend.

• Basically no play action
• Basically only 2 offensive personnel sets
• Keeping the team's best WR (at least from last year) on the bench for almost the entire game

Some would call that coaching. Others would call that preparation. Either way, none of those 3 things were good ideas.

 

[sb1]

Mac Jones talks about his injury in the Dolphin's game. What the Patriots quarterback said.

The Patriots quarterback was knocked off his feet by Javon Holland and landed on his back during the loss to the Dolphins. Now he is looking to Week 2.

www.providencejournal.com

If Mac wants to emulate things about the GOAT this is one area where he could do that and it sounds like he gets it.

Brady's toughness was always criminally underrated. I hated that stupid skirt comment from Rodney he ought to know better than that.

 

[venecol]

BB

He's the head coach. He called Bourne out during one of the practices. He gets final call as to who's playing. Etc...


I'm not saying it's definitely BB. I'm just saying that we don't know.

Maybe but if your OC goes to BB and says, I need him to succeed, you'd think he would reconsider.

I don't know what's going on but Troy didn't have glowing things to say about Bourne and called him back when he tried to go out to the field after his long catch. The whole situation is F'ked up. How is having a dude that was your #1 YAC receiver sitting on the bench behind Lil Jordan???? Like WTF.

 

[ashley]

PFF ranked him the #2 G in the NFL.

They also ranked Van Noy the number 1 coverage LB in the NFL.....we know how accurate that one is.

 

[Deus Irae]

Maybe but if your OC goes to BB and says, I need him to succeed, you'd think he would reconsider.

I don't know what's going on but Troy didn't have glowing things to say about Bourne and called him back when he tried to go out to the field after his long catch. The whole situation is F'ked up. How is having a dude that was your #1 YAC receiver sitting on the bench behind Lil Jordan???? Like WTF.

Curran put something out and laid the decision at the feet of BB. I'm not saying he's right, but I am noting that at least one member of the press thinks it went down that way.

As for the "why" of it, I have no answer for that. The rumor going around is that Bourne is a bad practice player, which is not (IMO) a legitimate excuse for benching your best game time WR.

 

[upstater1]

Depends on how you define critical, but your initial point was not getting why they'd be bemoaned ("We're bemoaning the lack of Ted Karras? Shaq Mason? and K Bourne? Seriously?").


It's obvious why they'd be bemoaned, and it's reasonable if people are doing so after that performance yesterday.

It's not obvious to me at all.

No.

I never liked Karras and I think we'll have an improvement over Mason. We'll be better at guard this year.

Bourne is good--as I said--I just don't think he's the one that's the difference. He's not a top guy.

Besides, if Bourne is really pissing and moaning about PT and gets his way (I'm basing this on training camp reports and the fact that Jonnu Smith had to talk to him after he was seen gloating after Agholor's fumble), then this will absolutely destroy team morale.

You know Belichick is not going for that. If anything, Bourne hurt himself yesterday

 

[Love The Drake]

It's not obvious to me at all.

No.

I never liked Karras and I think we'll have an improvement over Mason. We'll be better at guard this year.

Bourne is good--as I said--I just don't think he's the one that's the difference. He's not a top guy.

Besides, if Bourne is really pissing and moaning about PT and gets his way (I'm basing this on training camp reports and the fact that Jonnu Smith had to talk to him after he was seen gloating after Agholor's fumble), then this will absolutely destroy team morale.

You know Belichick is not going for that. If anything, Bourne hurt himself yesterday

This isn’t quite like the Glenn, Moss or Branch situations.
But it’s similar and every Pats fans knows how they played out.
They are all elite players that Pissed BB off and we’re no longer part of the solution in BBs eyes.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's not obvious to me at all.

No.

Then you're being willfully blind. Don't be that guy.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Am I the only one who never questions BB when it comes to player discipline?

I even agree with those who say Belichick benching Butler cost us the Super Bowl.

But, how many does this team win from the attention to detail / responsibilities / discipline? This team is almost always on point. That has contributed to accountability, leadership, consistency, which equals wins. So you trade the 2017 SB. I realize you can't really account for any of this, but why are people so sure BB's style is a negative?

Remember what happened when BB lost the 2009 team? How many players were late to practice that year? "I can't get through to them no matter what I try."

That year sucked.

Let's see how that plays out without Brady

 

[PatsFanInVa]

changed my mind, Did your homework:

Jakobi Meyers Stats & Fantasy Ranking - PlayerProfiler

Jakobi Meyers player profile featuring career stats, fantasy ranking, & analytics data. See combine scores, SPARQ, measurables, and comparable players.

www.playerprofiler.com

Kendrick Bourne Stats & Fantasy Ranking - PlayerProfiler

Kendrick Bourne player profile featuring career stats, fantasy ranking, & analytics data. See combine scores, SPARQ, measurables, and comparable players.

www.playerprofiler.com

Myers separation rating 1.6
Bourne separation Rating 1.7

Bourne ranked 31st in separation
Myers ranked 53rd in separation

So I guess ill ask you, Why isn't bourne playing more then 2 snaps if he gets better separation, has better Yards per catch, Has a higher Catch %?

I guess a web page rated him as 1/17th of some made-up metric better at "getting separation," and that's your proof. And that 1/17th better on the randometric du jour from some fantasy site equates to 22 places on their fantasy rankings of separation getting?

You're looking for "than" in that last sentence, not "then." Don't complain, if I tell you that on the clock it costs money.

You've got some real metrics, some made up fantasy metrics, I am sure your own personal "eye test," and so on. I get your passion about him only getting 2 snaps too -- that's the product of some drama I'm not privy to, it looks like. But then, did you want to sit Parker? Agholor?

Bourne is very much like meyers is my point. He runs slightly slower, but they're cut from the same cloth by that metric (4.63 vs. 4..68.. they are receivers/football players, not burners). His made-up metric on separation seems to put him so close the irony is overwhelming... I mean, it's a metric on separation.

They are both reliable weapons for Mac Jones and he has good rapport with both of them.

Mac kept choosing to throw the ball to Meyers though, not to Bourne, last season. He just kept missing how open Bourne was I guess.
Or, Bourne kept being his second look, and Meyers his first look, the way the play was drawn up? So then the fault is not in his stars but in himself, that he is, comparatively, an underling?

Your complaint about him sitting for all but 2 plays is officially explained as "welp, that's just how it worked out."

I think the whole present crop of receivers that made the 53 has a tantalizing possibility of more speed on the field. Parker, Agholor, and the rookie Thornton all run in the 4.4s or below -- in Thornton's case, way below.

Bourne and Meyers were both "reliable guys" in a season where they are apparently looking for more speed.

Meyers continued to flourish in camp. Bourne did not. I don't know why. Maybe you do. Bourne had trouble getting on the field. I don't know why. Maybe you do.

There was room for Parker, Agholor, and one of the two old reliables. Perhaps Meyers did or does something that pleases his bosses whereas Bourne is not doing it. I don't know. Maybe you do.

I do know that the cup runneth over this year, comparatively, at wide receiver. It is possible that, like you, Bourne estimates his value differently from how the Pats' coaching staff estimates it. It is possible that they don't think they can go out there with two slow old reliables out of the three guys on the field (or out of the two guys out on the field).

I didn't tell them to play their new pickup, Parker, and I didn't tell them to rehab Agholor, and I didn't tell them to favor Meyers over Bourne in terms of the apparent move toward speed that might have left us one slow reliable and two speedier options as the default - or at least, did this week.

I just marvel at guys who get frustrated when the fantasy site says player A is better than player B, there's not a whole lot of, ahem, separation between the two, and they want to go to war over which 800ish yard receiver to put on the field. Dude Bourne is a goodish, number twoish guy. Meyers is a goodish, number twoish guy. I'll repeat again, he was the ONLY Patriot that could catch anything from Cam freakin Newton. FWIW.

If I had to guess I'd say he isn't "getting" the direction the organization is going, and the coaching staff isn't happy with having attitude issues among the footsoldiers. And we all know that once you get identified as that guy, it can last a while

 

[TheRainMaker]

They also ranked Van Noy the number 1 coverage LB in the NFL.....we know how accurate that one is.

Wow... you weren't kidding. He also got roasted by Bolden in yesterday's game for a passing TD.

 

[upstater1]

Let's see how that plays out without Brady

What does it have to do with Brady?

Are you saying Brady kept them in line?

If anything, Brady was a force for allowing players more rope. He always wanted those players like Moss and Antonio Brown.

As much as I loved Moss's time here, he became disinterested pretty quickly. Like after about a year and a half.

But I think the first 3 Super Bowls were not about Brady cracking the whip. It was more about McGinest and Bruschi that held other players to account.

If BB feels the team has to have that, he's not going to let a malcontent infect the team. Letting people onto the field because they're acting up is only going to hurt team morale.

That being said, we're about to have a total roster overhaul when Slater and McCourty leave. McCourty isn't even a captain anymore. Who are the players that are going to hold others accountable when Slater, McCourty, Hightower, Chung and the like are all gone?

 

[upstater1]

Then you're being willfully blind. Don't be that guy.

So, because we disagree on how good Mason, Karras and Bourne are, that must mean I'm blind.

If you go back on this board LONG BEFORE Mason and Karras left this team, you'll see me wanting them replaced. I'll find the posts if you like.

 

[upstater1]

This isn’t quite like the Glenn, Moss or Branch situations.
But it’s similar and every Pats fans knows how they played out.
They are all elite players that Pissed BB off and we’re no longer part of the solution in BBs eyes.

Moss yes, he became disinterested, as did Glenn. I think Branch played hard his whole Patriot career. For him it was just offseason contract stuff.