DRAFT Patriots select WR Tyquan Thornton at 50.

[Twentytothree]

According to the below article, only two instances occurred of a WR being top 12 with hands smaller than 9 inches. Both were TY Hilton. He has hands larger than Thornton.

Tyreek Hill has smaller hands than Thornton - he seems to be doing ok catching the ball. If Thornton doesn't work out, it's not going to be because of the size of his hands.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

When people bring up hands or "small hands" it's less so about literally catching the ball. More directed at securing the catch, holding the ball while on the move / handling the ball. Not so much about actually catching the ball.

 

[upstater1]

The Pats did not draft Blount and Almendola.

Seymour played in obscurity after leaving NE. Law lasted 1 year with the Jets before his decent. No way was Law the same shutdown CB that he was in NE. Jimmy was injured or benched for just about 50% of his 49ers career. Out of 91 potential games Jimmy appeared in 46.

He made it to a Super Bowl after throwing for 77 yards connecting on 8 throws, no TDs and a sack. NFC Championship - Green Bay Packers at San Francisco 49ers - January 19th, 2020 | Pro-Football-Reference.com This is success? A Game Manager that uses Matrix shampoo? Jimmy was along for the ride in SF and now its over.

Brady and Gronk are different. Both shot their way out of town.

Seymour and Law went on to have very good seasons, Chandler Jones has been excellent. Brady, Gronk Thuney and Watson are a few more examples.

 

[State]

Are Thornton’s tiny hands enough to kill bugs?

Not really.

He’d hurt his pencil-thin wrists.

What a disaster pick for the second round.

Belichick is a failure. He should just coach. We need a proper GM like the Rams have.

 

[Triumph]

Seymour and Law went on to have very good seasons, Chandler Jones has been excellent. Brady, Gronk Thuney and Watson are a few more examples.

Brady and Gronk left on their own.

Gronk retired with 1 more year on his contract. The Patriots still controlled his rights. BB had to agree to release him after he wanted to play for a team other than the Patriots.

Brady asked Kraft to allow him to test FA. The Pats could have played hardball and tagged Brady, but it was totally clear that Brady wanted to play football, just not in NE for BB.

 

[Uptown]

“What was the problem? One part of the reason why Thornton caught only 143 passes for 2,242 yards and 19 touchdowns in 47 career games was uneven quarterback play; the Bears struggled in this department which had a negative effect on the team’s pass catchers as well.”

“Additionally, the team experienced a coaching change between his sophomore and junior campaigns. Nonetheless, Thornton appears to be appreciative for the opportunities he was given in college.”

“I feel like playing at Baylor they prepared me pretty well,” he said. “Just running different offenses for the first few years, my freshman and sophomore year and then Coach Brown coming in and bringing in a different offense, you know? I feel like they got me prepared as far as site adjustments and converting the routes as well. I learned all positions, the L to the Z, so I’m not just learning just one position. You’ve got to learn the whole concept.”


“Accordingly, Thornton sees himself as a versatile player rather than one capable of solely winning because of his game-breaking speed.”

“I would describe [my style of play] as very versatile, and I’m very coachable,” the 21-year-old said. “Just being here at New England, getting ready to work with the coaches, I would love to adjust my style and critique it any way I could. I’m willing to learn and grow. Definitely. ...

“I try to model my game after Davante Adams. I just love how he creates separation at the top of the route and at the line of scrimmage as well. I try to mimic that a little bit with my releases and my route running, while adding speed to it.”

Tyquan Thornton adds much more than speed to the Patriots offense

New England traded up to select Thornton last Friday.

www.patspulpit.com

 

[JMC00]

Are Thornton’s tiny hands enough to kill bugs?

Not really.

He’d hurt his pencil-thin wrists.

What a disaster pick for the second round.

Belichick is a failure. He should just coach. We need a proper GM like the Rams have.

Hey crybaby, no one is forcing you to be a Pats fan. **** off.

 

[Salsalife]

I just read if he has a good year it would be 20 catches as a rookie. That's really bad. Terry Glenn had 90 receptions his first year. For me personally he should be the day 1 starter. Nelson gone. With 17 games he should be in the vicinity of 70+ catches and 800+ yards to 1000 yards. He should average 12 yards average per catch. Mac Jones should be inviting him over every night for pitch and catch. Offer him a room in his house. Brady did with Brown, why not him?

 

[catent]

I just read if he has a good year it would be 20 catches as a rookie. That's really bad. Terry Glenn had 90 receptions his first year. For me personally he should be the day 1 starter. Nelson gone. With 17 games he should be in the vicinity of 70+ catches and 800+ yards to 1000 yards. He should average 12 yards average per catch. Mac Jones should be inviting him over every night for pitch and catch. Offer him a room in his house. Brady did with Brown, why not him?

“Offer him a room in his house. Brady did it with Brown, why not [Thornton]?”

I’d argue Brady giving AB a room in his home immediately after the Pats acquired him was not particularly sensible for several reasons. It’s not typical, it puts a burden on your family and routine (Mac has a wife). I certainly wouldn’t invite a near-stranger with whom I will have a professional relationship into my home (to live there) unless they needed a place to stay short-term.

Hangout a lot, throw a ton of balls, get dinner several times per week, and maybe an overnight film session before a big game, but I wouldn’t have a professional colleague I do not know well living with me long-term, in my own home.

I think Brady was a little off with his AB infatuation and inviting him into his home, especially since he has a wife and kids.

 

[Salsalife]

“Offer him a room in his house. Brady did it with Brown, why not [Thornton]?”

I’d argue Brady giving AB a room in his home immediately after the Pats acquired him was not particularly sensible for several reasons. It’s not typical, it puts a burden on your family and routine (Mac has a wife). I certainly wouldn’t invite a near-stranger with whom I will have a professional relationship into my home (to live there) unless they needed a place to stay short-term.

Hangout a lot, throw a ton of balls, get dinner several times per week, and maybe an overnight film session before a big game, but I wouldn’t have a professional colleague I do not know well living with me long-term, in my own home.

I think Brady was a little off with his AB infatuation and inviting him into his home, especially since he has a wife and kids.

Drew Bledsoe quote: Terry set rookie records for receptions and yards despite being limited by hamstring problems early in the season. We surprised everyone that year by making a run to the Super Bowl. There is no way we would have touched that level of success without Terry’s explosive playmaking ability" . Maybe not have him living with Mac but we could make a run this year, I've seen it before.... Ask PFW Paul Perillo about Terry Glenn's rookie season with Drew Bledsoe chucking bombs.

Let me help refresh Patriot nation on what a FAST wr can do for a franchise.....

terry glenn's rookie year highlights at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[upstater1]

Brady and Gronk left on their own.

Gronk retired with 1 more year on his contract. The Patriots still controlled his rights. BB had to agree to release him after he wanted to play for a team other than the Patriots.

Brady asked Kraft to allow him to test FA. The Pats could have played hardball and tagged Brady, but it was totally clear that Brady wanted to play football, just not in NE for BB.

And this is totally irrelevant to the discussion since we're talking about Patriots players leaving to play with other teams.

 

[farn]

Hey crybaby, no one is forcing you to be a Pats fan. **** off.

What’s up w these people ? Why is bashing BB such a joy in their lives ? Are they still b-hurt about Brady moving on ?

People of Patsfans, NE won a SB in early 2019. Not 1989…

 

[TheRainMaker]

I just read if he has a good year it would be 20 catches as a rookie. That's really bad. Terry Glenn had 90 receptions his first year. For me personally he should be the day 1 starter. Nelson gone. With 17 games he should be in the vicinity of 70+ catches and 800+ yards to 1000 yards. He should average 12 yards average per catch. Mac Jones should be inviting him over every night for pitch and catch. Offer him a room in his house. Brady did with Brown, why not him?

There’s no reason why he shouldn’t get playing time as this is an era where it’s a lot easier for offensive players to hit the ground running.

Parker should be the day 1 starter on the outside with Thornton pushing Agholor for the other side.

 

[Horace's Ivories]

When people bring up hands or "small hands" it's less so about literally catching the ball. More directed at securing the catch, holding the ball while on the move / handling the ball. Not so much about actually catching the ball.

That's surprising. Most places I just looked online said the hand size issue for WRs is about "catch rates". But if it's about fumbles I don't see that stat for him.

 

[Schmo]

There's a difference between small hands and weak hands. I'm 6 feet tall, and I'm sure there are 5' 6" guys that can easily catch a medicine ball that would knock me over.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

That's surprising. Most places I just looked online said the hand size issue for WRs is about "catch rates". But if it's about fumbles I don't see that stat for him.

Yea i mean it's something to consider but it's a prospect by prospect type thing.

For instance how long are your arms? How strong are your hands? I remember this with Wynn. Below average arms by NFL standards but strong asss hands that can feint, punch, plus grip strength.

TT has 32-inch arms I believe or 33.

Again it's more of a general note and you have to see how the prospect wins. How it effects his game or might, next level.

With me, concerning WR/RB/TE I pay attention to how the handle the ball directly after the catch, running with it, changing hands. Have I seen them in weather. Again prospect by prospect.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'm not sure about that pro day or what even happened tbh. Those times, supposedly are from a private workout. Supposedly he had two. I wish their was someone to confirm this that was there.
"Marshall sophomore wide receiver Randy Moss, the enigma of the
first round because of his troubled past, had an impressive
workout for the handful of NFL teams who watched him go through
drills at his school last Friday. In a 25[degree] windchill,
Moss ran the 40 in 4.31, 4.35 and 4.44 seconds--superb times
even in ideal conditions. But his performance the night before
at a dinner with Bears coach Dave Wannstedt may have been
better. "He made a great impression," Wannstedt says.
"Well-dressed, polite, smart. The big question is whether he's
grown up, and nothing showed up negatively in our two days there."

"We get a lot of comments about Randy Moss, including very well meaning correction requests notifying us that the data is incorrect. There is a discrepancy here that it is worth explaining. The data was technically incorrect under the NFL Combine Results heading where it was previously placed on the site, because Randy Moss did not attend the NFL Combine. This data is also not from his infamous Marshall Pro Day.

The Randy Moss data on NFL Combine Results is from a Private Workout on 3/13/1998. It does not technically belong in the “Pro Day” or “NFL Combine” category, though technically it is closer to a Pro Day and the data has been moved to that section."

Lot of mystery around this. And then there's this.






Big discrepancy between weight as well.

The thing is that I really could believe Moss running a 4.25 40 with a 47 inch vertical. The guy was the greatest athletic freak I've seen on a football field. The thing is a lot of these numbers are 'unofficial' so the world will never know. Anyways interesting stuffs, thanks for sharing!

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Are Thornton’s tiny hands enough to kill bugs?

Not really.

He’d hurt his pencil-thin wrists.

What a disaster pick for the second round.

Belichick is a failure. He should just coach. We need a proper GM like the Rams have.

Lmfao

 

[JMC00]

The hand thing is so overblown. Keenan Allen and Deebo Samuel with 10" hands. Chase with 9 5/8" Leaders in drops.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Sure.
But the Patriots performance has been well below league average the past five or more years.
The Patriots have made some odd choices that fans questioned at the time, and the failure of those perceived reaches certainly raises questions when other reaches are made.

The Patriots drafted Derek Rivers and Antonio Garcia in 2017. They have no starters from that draft.
The Patriots have two players remaining from the 2018 draft, Wynn and Bentley. Featured Duke Dawson in the second.
The 2019 draft featured a reach for Harry in the first over the higher "expert"-rated players Deebo Samuel, Terry McLaurin, DK Metcalf, etc. JoeJuan Williams in the second, who has made the team. An active third with three players, Winovich, Harris, and Cajuste. Their best pick was punter Jake Bailey in the fifth.
2020 delivered Duggar, a good third safety behind McCourty & Philips, Uche, a rotational edge player, Jennings who's done nothing, two TE's who struggle to make the team, and the first kicker drafted. There was a lot of complaining from the fans about selecting Rohrwasser over more highly-rated "expert" kickers, and Rohrwasser didn't make the team.

So over the 2017-2020 period, where there has been time to evaluate, the best players drafted are Wynn, Bentley, Harris, Bailey, Duggar, and Uche. Not a lot of Pro Bowl representation there. Three positional starters; four if you count Duggar, and a good punter.

Sure, Belichick has access to much more data than fans who read reviews from the experts. But generally those reaches just haven't worked. And now we are seeing a lot more reaches.

The simplest answer, as some have already said is it's all subjective. I might have someone rated 100, NFL might have them 50. Generally the NFL is great at evaluating talent but they're certainly not infallible. Personally I don't think there's a difference between the best evaluators whether they're on the "outside" or working for the league. Also we don't truly know who scouts and personnel are pushing to the decision makers and how much compromise there is there. Here, almost everything falls on Bill. Like he's combing through 300 prospects at home with Linda and Nike organizing his notes and putting another pot of coffee on.

I mean all the NFL scouts talk to "outsiders" at some point. Most NFL people are only concerned with SR and who has to or is very likely to come out. So they'll always look to other services in advance about underclassmen.

Again I think the best on the outside could do just as well if given the opportunity. The NFL is as inbred as it comes so breaking in is very tough.

I don't think there's anything wrong with criticism. Especially given our recent track record but the problem is most of it comes from people who's most effort is performing a simulated mock draft.

Every year I try to shield myself from that stuff. I'm not concerned with what others think good or bad I'm somewhat selfish in my reasons. I say it consistently though, those mocks are useless. Even now I couldn't really tell you who has who, where. I've looked at a few rankings from Brugler and Zierlein but mainly just the top 25-50. I really try to keep it moving and always I'll looked back on that stuff but I'm always concerned about being influenced and don't pay attention to stuff online or TV (I watch 0 sport shows besides an INSIDE THE NFL or something like that, I can't imagine how sports TV is now).

Anyway I'm going to look into who we picked, where and where they were rated beforehand/how they turned out. Any needs want to help PM me.


Also Harry wasn't a reach. He was like 28-30 on the consensus board (8-10 boards) and a universal top 40 pick. SF really liked him and was going to grab him early RD2 if we didn't. He produced in college, produced early, which matters. And tested very well. Supposedly interviewed well. Outcome sucks and he wouldn't have been my choice there (said this at the time, had guys higher on my personal board) but he wasn't a bad pick at the time. He checked all the boxes you want. Even though he wouldn't have been my pick I like the fact that we took a risk and went out of our comfort zone.