DRAFT Cole Strange-Welcome to the Pats

[Rob0729]

Why would I do that? Your posts provide me with some of the best laughs I have had all month....

Basically the Patriots traded Shaq Mason and a 1st round pick for Cole Strange, a 6th round pick, and some salary cap space. I think you are the only person in this forum who cannot see how horrible of a move that is.

The guy who just called Bill Belichick Matt Millen is laughing at me? I consider that a compliment.

And again, I don't have a problem with people criticizing Belichick legiitmately, but people like you bring it to stupid levels that brings down the intelligence of this board.

 

[Kasmir]

We're talking about a lot of different players at a lot of different positions. It's not just a couple of positions and a couple of guys.

We're talking about 15 to 20 players that will go between 21 and 40. And many of them will be at positions a lot more dire than OG.

For example, CB. Let's say Belichick snags Kyler Gordon or Andrew Booth. That will go a long way toward reinforcing the logic of the Strange pick.

But what if he doesn't?

There is a very strong case to be made that we had greater need than a guard, and if Strange was a need pick, then why was the position prioritized? Usually a good argument for this would be depth at other positions compared to guard. But outside of Gordon and Booth, no one really sees this depth at CB at all.

Belichick doesn't care that "no one" agrees with him. He's not running scared.

Now even if he's right in his evaluations given the information he has, the picks he makes still have to work out on the field, and there are a lot of random factors in play for all picks including injuries and the measures of outcomes are statistically insignificant as well. Leading to absurdities like claiming that BB is bad at drafting CB's but great at signing CB's as UDFA's. I can't imagine a credible mechanism for that, but I would love for someone to ask BB about that perception to hear what he says.

 

[Wozzy]

No. The pick sucks. Belichick made it. Who else should take the criticism?

Look, you said it right there, Belichick literally did exactly what you said... trade down and then reach for a player... completely ridiculous. It's the god damn 21st pick of the 1st round of an exceptionally deep draft and there were several players with definite 1st round talent sitting right there to be taken and he ends up with a creampuff that he could have taken much later in the draft. MAJOR FAIL.

So the player sucks… do we have you down on record?

What were the needs on that team? Did the defense play like dog crap for the last quarter of the 2004 season? Nope, they had just won the superbowl.

The Pats have ten picks left in this draft, a very deep draft. They need to plow ahead and get great prospects.

Richard Seymour was a “reach” at #3 overall, Mankins was a reach, DMC was a reach, Thuney was a reach… the list of supposed reaches that turned into All Pros is long.

 

[203Pat]

What does that have to do with adding a great guard prospect, a position of need?

It is only a position of need because Bill let a relatively cheap starter walk because he allegedly misjudged his market. My overall point was we had the luxury of reaching on a guard back then because that 2005 roster didn't have gaping holes all over it the way this current 2022 roster does. We need speed and youth at LB. We need a starting corner. We could use another D-lineman. We need a receiver. Why take a guard with an A grade in round 1 when you can find a guard with a B grade in round 4? The gap is much smaller from average to good at that position than it is at receiver, corner, LB, etc.

 

[XLIX]

The guy who just called Bill Belichick Matt Millen is laughing at me? I consider that a compliment.

And again, I don't have a problem with people criticizing Belichick legiitmately, but people like you bring it to stupid levels that brings down the intelligence of this board.

Then STFU and put me in your ignore file. In either case, stop whining like a bee yotch.

Basically the Patriots traded Shaq Mason and a 1st round pick for Cole Strange, a 6th round pick, and some salary cap space. I think you are the only person in this forum who cannot see how horrible of a move that is.

 

[Rob0729]

Then STFU and put me in your ignore file. In either case, stop whining like a bee yotch.

You could just stop responding to me. Why do I have to do your work for you?

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

@captain stone where are you? We need your analysis.

from his profile:

captain stone

Last seen Yesterday at 7:49 PM


------
I fear that the Captain might have had a meltdown at about 11:00 last night.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

It is only a position of need because Bill let a relatively cheap starter walk because he allegedly misjudged his market. My overall point was we had the luxury of reaching on a guard back then because that 2005 roster didn't have gaping holes all over it the way this current 2022 roster does. We need speed and youth at LB. We need a starting corner. We could use another D-lineman. We need a receiver. Why take a guard with an A grade in round 1 when you can find a guard with a B grade in round 4? The gap is much smaller from average to good at that position than it is at receiver, corner, LB, etc.

I completely agree with you except that I don’t think Mankins was a reach in 2005. If I remember correctly, I think he was considered a top 50 player

 

[JMC00]

Go watch the Rams video. He wasn't that high on anyone's board.

You mean the same guys that picked Tutu Atwell (a projected 4th-5th) in the 2nd round and Ernest Jones (a projected UDFA) in the 3rd last year?

 

[TheRainMaker]

It is only a position of need because Bill let a relatively cheap starter walk because he allegedly misjudged his market. My overall point was we had the luxury of reaching on a guard back then because that 2005 roster didn't have gaping holes all over it the way this current 2022 roster does. We need speed and youth at LB. We need a starting corner. We could use another D-lineman. We need a receiver. Why take a guard with an A grade in round 1 when you can find a guard with a B grade in round 4? The gap is much smaller from average to good at that position than it is at receiver, corner, LB, etc.

2005 team did have major holes at LB and CB.

 

[notex]

Except Austin Peay and the Citadel aren't on the Pats schedule next year. He has never played against any NFL talent. It has taken Duggar three years just to get to "meh" status and you think this kid is going to start right away?


Why was last year's draft so successful? They took SEC and Big 12 guys, not guys from the Southern Conference.

Honestly I am not a draft expert. Just reading the reports now and people seem to think he will start in as a Day 1 starter....

 

[1960Pats]

Also McVay and Sneed can **** off, their top 2 picks last year

2nd rd- Tutu Atwell (projected 4th-5th round)
3rd rd- Ernest Jones (projected 5th-UDFA)

This was on my mind too. Where do these clowns get off criticizing Bill's selection? Hopefully, Bill can use that down the road.

Personally, I don't think there's anything worse than coaches talking crap about another coach. That was why I took exception to Shula's asterisk talk in 2007, especially since his precious undefeated season was a direct result of his cheating that resulted in the loss of a 1st round pick and a record fine. The funny thing is that until Shula piped up I had forgotten about his and Miami's cheating.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

A trip down memory lane…

Remember when he was drafted? The Patriots took him with the 32d pick in the 2005 draft, out of Fresno State. The experts — feel free to apply your own air quotes there — had him pegged as a later-round selection. Some had him multiple rounds later.
When his name was announced during ESPN’s draft coverage, I recall a look of bewilderment crossing Mel Kiper Jr. face while a puzzled Chris Berman asked him, essentially, who the hell is this guy? (I believe what he actually said as he looked Kiper’s way was a shrugged, “Well?”)
He clearly disliked the pick, but he was paralyzed from saying as much because he knew there was a damn good chance he would look foolish for challenging Belichick’s knowledge of the player. So he timidly called it a reach, then wrote this the next day:

"Guard Logan Mankins was a reach in the first round but the Patriots obviously like his size and nastiness, and he will help fill the void left by Joe Andruzzi’s departure via free agency."​

The latter part of the evaluation proved spot on. And, not even in retrospect but in that very moment, should have negated the idea that Mankins was a reach.

www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2014/08/26/logan_mankins/

Logan Mankins
6× All-Pro (2007, 2009, 2010, 2011–2013)
7× Pro Bowl (2007, 2009–2013, 2015)
NFL 2010s All-Decade Team
New England Patriots All-2000s Team
New England Patriots All-2010s Team
New England Patriots 50th Anniversary Team
Madden Most Valuable Protectors Award (2010)

When the Pats drafted Devin McCourty, I was pissed too. The announcers on TV were confused and were like "well, he's a good special teams player." Turned out to be a great pick.

 

[JMC00]

 

[TheRainMaker]

When the Pats drafted Devin McCourty, I was pissed too. The announcers on TV were confused and were like "well, he's a good special teams player." Turned out to be a great pick.

I wouldn’t go that far. He wasn’t what many fans wanted, but he wasn’t a massive reach.

 

[Ring 6]

I predict that once Belichick and Brady are gone, most will return to rooting for the Pats.

I can’t imagine having the honor of being handed the success we have gotten as a patriot fan, then spending your time trying to knock down, belittle and take credit away from any of this instrumental in delivering it.
It’s almost like a bizarre kind of entitlement where they feel they deserve the success and the guy running the show did nothing. I guess people go a long long way to feel better about themselves, and the bigger the target of the *****ing the more inferiority it covers.

 

[skinnydog]

This was on my mind too. Where do these clowns get off criticizing Bill's selection? Hopefully, Bill can use that down the road.

Personally, I don't think there's anything worse than coaches talking crap about another coach. That was why I took exception to Shula's asterisk talk in 2007, especially since his precious undefeated season was a direct result of his cheating that resulted in the loss of a 1st round pick and a record fine. The funny thing is that until Shula piped up I had forgotten about his and Miami's cheating.

It was an in the moment reaction. It was so off the charts surprising I don’t think they could help it.

 

[notex]

Its just funny I read on here multiple places how badly the Pats needed to solidify the inside OL. And we do just that and everyones heads are exploding !

 

[Chevy]

Why would I do that? Your posts provide me with some of the best laughs I have had all month....

Basically the Patriots traded Shaq Mason and a 1st round pick for Cole Strange, a 6th round pick, and some salary cap space. I think you are the only person in this forum who cannot see how horrible of a move that is.

What we have is here is the potential for the Crime of the Century. Which direction it goes is up in the air.

If Strange has peaked, and barely fills in for Mason, then it is by no doubt absolutely terrible. On the other hand, if his rapid progress continues, and those traits like drive/intelligence/technique translate to the pro game, we could be looking at a top-flight guard who can be a long term staple.

What really sucks is that any evaluation has to wait two seasons minimum (barring an absolute bust).

 

[Xerostomia]

What is the greater failure? Having a 1st round pick that does not stick around for his second contract, or a player that is here for 8-10 years?

Chandler Jones vs Hightower? Jones was a 1st round 'failure' for the Patriots from my perspective because we did not keep him beyond his rookie contract.

The failure rate for the draft in general is still really high with 8% of players making any significant contribution above 'replacement level', with barely 30% of the draftees ever seeing any significant playing time to have made any difference. Of course 1st round picks have the best chance to do well.

NFL Draft Pick Bust Rate Remains Very High

More analytics haven’t increased the success rate

www.dailynorseman.com

Teams have 1 extra year of control with 1st round picks, that is probably the most important reason to pick 1 player over another in the 1st round. Having a guard that protects the teams most important asset (QB) for 5 years is invaluable.

Everyone wants an all star player, but you can only pay a few of them. The Patriots will have a higher success rate getting playmakers via free agency over the draft.