DRAFT Cole Strange-Welcome to the Pats

[XLIX]

You could just stop responding to me. Why do I have to do your work for you?

You're the one whining about how my contributions "bring down the intelligence of this board."

If you really believed that, you would put me in your ignore file. But you don't really believe that and you know I have a legit point with my commentary.

 

[skinnydog]

Just because he met with a lot of teams does not mean any would have considered him in the top of the second round or didn‘t have a half dozen other guards rated higher than him.

 

[skinnydog]

What is the greater failure? Having a 1st round pick that does not stick around for his second contract, or a player that is here for 8-10 years?

Chandler Jones vs Hightower? Jones was a 1st round 'failure' for the Patriots from my perspective because we did not keep him beyond his rookie contract.

The failure rate for the draft in general is still really high with 8% of players making any significant contribution above 'replacement level', with barely 30% of the draftees ever seeing any significant playing time to have made any difference. Of course 1st round picks have the best chance to do well.

NFL Draft Pick Bust Rate Remains Very High

More analytics haven’t increased the success rate

www.dailynorseman.com

Teams have 1 extra year of control with 1st round picks, that is probably the most important reason to pick 1 player over another in the 1st round. Having a guard that protects the teams most important asset (QB) for 5 years is invaluable.

Everyone wants an all star player, but you can only pay a few of them. The Patriots will have a higher success rate getting playmakers via free agency over the draft.

I’d suggest the extra year 5 protection is far more important to have at the skill positions who will command much larger contracts when they hit free agency than just about any guard.

 

[TomPatriot]

He’s a first round pick in a position of need. He’s not sitting on the bench this year.

I hope you're right.

I take my N'Keal comment back. He played some.

 

[VJCPatriot]

What is the greater failure? Having a 1st round pick that does not stick around for his second contract, or a player that is here for 8-10 years?

Chandler Jones vs Hightower? Jones was a 1st round 'failure' for the Patriots from my perspective because we did not keep him beyond his rookie contract.

Chandler Jones is a bad example to use. He's a 4-time pro bowler, and a 2 time all-pro. Three of those pro bowls and his two all-pro selections are with his second team the Arizona Cardinals in 2017 and 2019 respectively. The real reason the Patriots traded Jones is that BB didn't want to pay him the money that he was worth on the open market. As a defensive end, Chandler Jones would command premium money in free agency. The Patriots being 'cheapskates' does not make the player bad, it makes the Pats cheap.

If a GM's reasoning not to pick say a George Karlaftis at pick #29 over a Cole Strange is that, hey this guy is going to become too good, so he's going to be too expensive when it comes time to re-up him for that second contract, that GM should be immediately fired. A big reason to draft premium position players early is to get them CHEAP on their rookie deals. You think about that second contract later when the player has proved he is worth a big pay day.

 

[Rob0729]

You're the one whining about how my contributions "bring down the intelligence of this board."

If you really believed that, you would put me in your ignore file. But you don't really believe that and you know I have a legit point with my commentary.

I don't put people on ignore. Sorry.

 

[Xerostomia]

I’d suggest the extra year 5 protection is far more important to have at the skill positions who will command much larger contracts when they hit free agency than just about any guard.

Maybe, but we are talking about BB, who trades players away before that 5th year when they get really expensive. If we have a stud in the later rounds they usually leave via free agency but we usually get better draft capital via trade.

 

[Xerostomia]

Chandler Jones is a bad example to use. He's a 4-time pro bowler, and a 2 time all-pro. Those two all-pro selections are with his second team the Arizona Cardinals in 2017 and 2019 respectively. The real reason the Patriots traded Jones is that BB didn't want to pay him the money that he was worth on the open market. As a defensive end, Chandler Jones would command premium money in free agency. The Patriots being 'cheapskates' does not make the player bad, it makes the Pats cheap.

There was no scenario where the Patriots were going to pay Hightower and Jones at the same time, there was no room under the cap. BB had to pick one, and he picked the correct player.

 

[Wozzy]

It is only a position of need because Bill let a relatively cheap starter walk because he allegedly misjudged his market. My overall point was we had the luxury of reaching on a guard back then because that 2005 roster didn't have gaping holes all over it the way this current 2022 roster does. We need speed and youth at LB. We need a starting corner. We could use another D-lineman. We need a receiver. Why take a guard with an A grade in round 1 when you can find a guard with a B grade in round 4? The gap is much smaller from average to good at that position than it is at receiver, corner, LB, etc.

Mason wasn’t cheap, and he was on the backside of his career.

 

[XLIX]

What we have is here is the potential for the Crime of the Century. Which direction it goes is up in the air.

If Strange has peaked, and barely fills in for Mason, then it is by no doubt absolutely terrible. On the other hand, if his rapid progress continues, and those traits like drive/intelligence/technique translate to the pro game, we could be looking at a top-flight guard who can be a long term staple.

What really sucks is that any evaluation has to wait two seasons minimum (barring an absolute bust).

Shaq Mason is a darn decent player. He didn't make the Pro Bowl but he was certainly right there on the cusp of being Pro Bowl caliber. Strange could develop into a very talented player and still not be an upgrade from what we had.

So if we assume the 2 players are equal - which is a big if - then we basically traded the #29 pick for a 6th rounder plus minimal cap space.

 

[Wozzy]

I wouldn’t go that far. He wasn’t what many fans wanted, but he wasn’t a massive reach.

Strange isn’t a massive reach if he’s projected to go in the 2nd. The Rams were hoping he fell to them.

 

[Kasmir]

Go check out

He wasn't that high on anyone's board.

And you know that how? Special league sources?

 

[skinnydog]

Maybe, but we are talking about BB, who trades players away before that 5th year when they get really expensive. If we have a stud in the later rounds they usually leave via free agency but we usually get better draft capital via trade.

You mean like the 5th we got for Mason?

 

[skinnydog]

Strange isn’t a massive reach if he’s projected to go in the 2nd. The Rams were hoping he fell to them.

Yes, in the 3rd round.

 

[TheRainMaker]

There was no scenario where the Patriots were going to pay Hightower and Jones at the same time, there was no room under the cap. BB had to pick one, and he picked the correct player.

Of course he could’ve. He just didn’t want to for whatever reason. HT came very cheap by the way.

 

[Kasmir]

The guy who just called Bill Belichick Matt Millen is laughing at me? I consider that a compliment.

And again, I don't have a problem with people criticizing Belichick legiitmately, but people like you bring it to stupid levels that brings down the intelligence of this board.

Hopefully the Disinformation Board will get involved before someone gets killed.

 

[JMC00]

The Patriots being 'cheapskates' does not make the player bad, it makes the Pats cheap.

Let's just ignore Jones doing crack and showing up to a police station naked the same week as a playoff game. Let's also ignore the pick they got for him turned into Joe Thuney. Let's also ignore the fact that they had Trey Flowers waiting in the wings

 

[Wozzy]

Yes, in the 3rd round.

The Rams laughed because BB has big brass balls and doesn’t give a fk what people think. They obviously liked the player.

 

[Rob0729]

Chandler Jones is a bad example to use. He's a 4-time pro bowler, and a 2 time all-pro. Three of those pro bowls and his two all-pro selections are with his second team the Arizona Cardinals in 2017 and 2019 respectively. The real reason the Patriots traded Jones is that BB didn't want to pay him the money that he was worth on the open market. As a defensive end, Chandler Jones would command premium money in free agency. The Patriots being 'cheapskates' does not make the player bad, it makes the Pats cheap.

I am not sure that Jones would have been the player here that he was in Arizona though. Te Cards' scheme seem to fit his playing style. They seemed to let him pin his ears back and rush which the Pats just don't let players do all that much. So whether or not that they were cheap or not, they were unlikely to get as much value out of him.

But don't underestimate Jones' run in the law being a contributing factor.

You can argue that Belichick didnt get enough back for him or should have let him just pin his ears back and rush more, but he was a better player in Arizona than he was here and he may never had made it to the All Pro list if he stayed.

 

[Kasmir]

You mean like the 5th we got for Mason?

You're saying we only got a 5th because teams conspired to screw over BB? The market consensus was that Mason was worth a 5th.