BGC 2022 WR/PTP Thread

[DaBruinz]

BGC, have your thoughts changed on Treylon Burks after his combine or are you still not swayed and keeping him in your tier 1 group?

He’s a hard one to project. Scouts have raved about his game speed and some were expecting him to run a 4.2-4.3 40. He ended up going 4.55 which is still fine for a player of that size. However his 3 cone and shuttle were pretty bad.

I’m guessing he is off the Pats draft board possibly because of Harry’s disappointing career, but I do find it odd and rather intriguing that pro scouts were expecting the kind of speed on the watch. His game speed must be pretty darn good.

Burks put up a 35.5" vertical, 12 rep bench, and a 4.28 Shuttle and a 7.28 3-cone. I think that Burks didn't "train" for the shuttle and 3-cone. On tape, he shows the quickness in and out of breaks that people look for out of a larger slot receiver. I saw a comparison of Burks to a taller Anquan Boldin. That's a lot to live up to, but Burks has the hands to help him fit in coverage.

 

[DaBruinz]

Note sure if BCG posted this, but here is Burks "highlights" of his career. 35 min worth. The tape shows he's got the quickness needed to work the slot as well as the outside.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

BGC, have your thoughts changed on Treylon Burks after his combine or are you still not swayed and keeping him in your tier 1 group?

Not much but yea a little. I never have blind conviction(s) or try not to. I feel I'm pretty objective so I have no problem adjusting to new info. I grade a prospect twice. On film & athleticism with background mixed in so again I'll adjust if I feel the need. I did a little here not much.

*edit*
plus those tiers are just a snap shot when I put them out. I update them a little but they're more or less a baseline.

He’s a hard one to project. Scouts have raved about his game speed and some were expecting him to run a 4.2-4.3 40. He ended up going 4.55 which is still fine for a player of that size. However his 3 cone and shuttle were pretty bad.

Honestly I don't think he took this AA serious as he should but that's me speculating. I said the same after his 40. Not that he doesn't care. I just think he's not one of these guys that's into that stuff and probably needs a little more push in that direction. Like he's a country kid that wants to hunt and fish not train for sprints etc which I get.

I thought he would run 4.4-4.8 personally so i wasn't that disappointed but 4.55 but not jumping for joy. Same for agility #'s.

I’m guessing he is off the Pats draft board possibly because of Harry’s disappointing career, but I do find it odd and rather intriguing that pro scouts were expecting the kind of speed on the watch. His game speed must be pretty darn good.

Not sure about our real board. His play speed, strength and wiggle is really good for 225 but he definitely could tighten up his body a little.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

You'll be hearing about this dude very soon. He's a huge recruit.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I get unusually excited seeing football players dunk idc if it's silly I love seeing it

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

One of the best deep threats in the class. He's an excellent tracker. Plus concentration, body control and catch radius. Really good good getting open late and tracking where his QB is leading him. 4.4 speed with good burst and acceleration. He's got inconsistent hands and needs to work on his routes but he's a playmaker. Multiple 50 rec / 1k / 8 / 17-18 per rec seasons. Averaged 19 his SO year.

 

[VJCPatriot]

To me Olave is the better prospect for the Patriots offense. He is just such a smooth technical runner especially coming in and out of breaks.

There's also little question about his deep speed capability with that 4.39 40 at the Combine. I see him as a better fit in the Patriots very technical, route-read option style of offense that requires high IQ WRs in order to adapt quickly to it. Olave feels like the best fit and if he makes it to 21, I would run, not walk to the podium with the Patriots selection.

However, that being said, there is something special about Treylon Burks. His game speed feels WAY faster than his timed speed when you watch the tape. He's a long strider type and when he makes his move suddenly gets way past his defender en route to receiving a deep ball for major damage. Burks also showed a lot of versatility lining up from different positions on the field. Certainly looks capable of handling the ball on say a Jet sweep and with his strength those stiff arms are nasty and almost guaranteed extra yardage against 1 on 1 coverage. Arm tackles are almost never going to bring this guy down, you better wrap up and tackle or you'll pay the price.

I'd be happy with either of these players. Olave at 21 is a steal. Burks with a slight move down in the 1st to get additional draft capital would also make a lot of sense. Either I feel could slot in as a starting WR from Day1.

But how does trading for Devante Parker impact our draft? If one of these two studs (Olave/Burks) slips to the Patriots do we still take one of them or do we instead go for a cornerback like Booth, and right now that looks like more of a pressing need?

 

[DaBruinz]

To me Olave is the better prospect for the Patriots offense. He is just such a smooth technical runner especially coming in and out of breaks.

There's also little question about his deep speed capability with that 4.39 40 at the Combine. I see him as a better fit in the Patriots very technical, route-read option style of offense that requires high IQ WRs in order to adapt quickly to it. Olave feels like the best fit and if he makes it to 21, I would run, not walk to the podium with the Patriots selection.

However, that being said, there is something special about Treylon Burks. His game speed feels WAY faster than his timed speed when you watch the tape. He's a long strider type and when he makes his move suddenly gets way past his defender en route to receiving a deep ball for major damage. Burks also showed a lot of versatility lining up from different positions on the field. Certainly looks capable of handling the ball on say a Jet sweep and with his strength those stiff arms are nasty and almost guaranteed extra yardage against 1 on 1 coverage. Arm tackles are almost never going to bring this guy down, you better wrap up and tackle or you'll pay the price.

I'd be happy with either of these players. Olave at 21 is a steal. Burks with a slight move down in the 1st to get additional draft capital would also make a lot of sense. Either I feel could slot in as a starting WR from Day1.

But how does trading for Devante Parker impact our draft? If one of these two studs (Olave/Burks) slips to the Patriots do we still take one of them or do we instead go for a cornerback like Booth, and right now that looks like more of a pressing need?

Watching the Burks video, I said "That's how we need to be using Jonnu". They used him in motion. They used him in the slot. They used him outside. The only thing I didn't see of Burks was Jet Sweeps. But definitely some Trick plays and screen passes.

I think that Burks or Watson would be excellent additions for outside receiver and I think that Phillips would be excellent for the Slot, though Burks and Watson can line up there as well. I'd love to have it so that ANY of the receivers could line up in the slot or outside. Really cause Matchup nightmares.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Watching the Burks video, I said "That's how we need to be using Jonnu". They used him in motion. They used him in the slot. They used him outside. The only thing I didn't see of Burks was Jet Sweeps. But definitely some Trick plays and screen passes.

See this is where an offensive coordinator makes a huge difference. Clearly McDaniels was not utilizing Jonnu in those ways.

Now that he's gone, it's going to depend on the next guy who inherits that position to give a new direction to the offense. The other possibility still remains that Jonnu just didn't 'get' the Patriots system. There are plenty of successful NFL receivers who came from other teams who could never gel or succeed in this system, just look at the likes of Chad Ochocinco.

So for me, even though he might have been misused, guys who fit Jonnu's profile are more 'risky' since they might not fit with our offensive philosophy/system even though they might be wonderful weapons when inserted into other offensive systems.

That's why Chris Olave to me is the safest pick in the draft for the Patriots. Burks has tantalizing potential and physicality yes, but there is RISK of him not being a system fit. I like Burks yes, but if we're going 1st round WR I'd sleep better if Olave was the pick.

Then again it only takes one team to think the same way I do and take Olave WAY before he ever makes it to 21. At which point you're probably asking yourself, do we take Burks or do we take Booth Jr here at 21 OR move down.

 

[Username]

I have to say, I'm still liking Tre Turner a lot more than some of the more highly touted WR's in this class.

The more tape I see of him, the more I like him as a Patriot. He's not elite at anything, but he's a solid 6.5 at everything. I know that's not exciting, but if we're talking 3rd/4th round I'll take that over a dude who's a 8 in one trait and a 3 in everything else.

 

[captain stone]

One of the best deep threats in the class. He's an excellent tracker. Plus concentration, body control and catch radius. Really good good getting open late and tracking where his QB is leading him. 4.4 speed with good burst and acceleration. He's got inconsistent hands and needs to work on his routes but he's a playmaker. Multiple 50 rec / 1k / 8 / 17-18 per rec seasons. Averaged 19 his SO year.

Reminds me in ways of Gabriel Davis from 2020, but unfortunately I don't believe he'll be available that late... More likely than not he'll be gone before the end of Day 2...

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Reminds me in ways of Gabriel Davis from 2020, but unfortunately I don't believe he'll be available that late... More likely than not he'll be gone before the end of Day 2...

Exactly who / what I was thinking about.

 

[DaBruinz]

Reminds me in ways of Gabriel Davis from 2020, but unfortunately I don't believe he'll be available that late... More likely than not he'll be gone before the end of Day 2...

I'd be very surprised to see Turner go Day 2. Just too many other good players in this draft at WR and otherwise.

 

[Username]

I'd be very surprised to see Turner go Day 2. Just too many other good players in this draft at WR and otherwise.

I think they were referring to Jaelen Tolbert.

I'm Tre Turner's sole cheerleader here I think. But for me, Turner is a round 4-5 pick and will be a steal at that.

 

[midwestpatsfan]

What's shakin @BaconGrundleCandy

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

What's shakin @BaconGrundleCandy

Yo old school in the house. Surprised you remembered your password.

 

[Jim Beankie]

May only be of interest to me (especially looking back a few years from now), but I gathered a list of WR prospects who had a 100m time in HS. Since it doesn't have wind times, and it might not all be FAT, it's not fully standardized. The funny thing about this list is that the slowest prospect I listed (Burks) has probably the 2nd highest recorded ball carrier speed to Jameson (can't confirm Williams's measurement though). I also added Kupp and Diggs as benchmarks, as well as most of the Patriots WRs that I have a 100m time for (except Jakobi). Edit: added Hill's 10.32 in HS - his 10.19 was probably a few days after HS graduation.

One thing for sure is that there are a lot of fast guys this year, but I'm wondering who's going to end up being (so far from 2019) the Parris Campbells (10.75), Andy Isabellas (10.51), or Darius Slaytons (10.54) of the draft (due to injuries, suckage, or just a lack of oppty). I think Mecole Hardman (10.64) is going to have a breakout year next year now that Tyreek is gone. Undrafted Ashton Dulin (10.67 / 4.43) ended up being 2nd team All Pro in 2019 for ST and continues to excel in that role, it seems, not unlike an ST ace we know who also ran a 10.67 (FAT - Slater also had a 10.62 that was probably a hand time).

Random: Jahan's name reminds me of my Dad's Datsun station wagon. We all rode that thing in a move from Cali to Boston over 5 days, and I slept in the way back sometimes. In my memory, a Motel 6 will always be luxury.

	100m	40yd	3cone	20shut
tyquan thornton	10.5	4.28	7.25p	4.39p
jameson williams	10.54
calvin austin	10.54	4.32	6.65	4.07
velus jones	10.56	4.31	7.32p	4.51p
danny gray	10.59	4.33	7.38p	4.37p
jalen tolbert	10.59	4.49	7.08	4.24p
bo melton	10.7	4.34	6.98/6.81p	4.1p
chris olave	10.82	4.39
jahan dotson	10.82	4.43	7.28
alec pierce	11.2	4.41	7.13	4.28/4.2p
garrett wilson	11.39	4.38
treylon burks	11.8	4.55	7.28	4.4
cooper kupp	11.74	4.62/4.61p	6.75/6.53p	4.08/4.12p
stefon diggs	12	4.46	7.03	4.32/4.11p
tyreek hill	10.32 (10.19)	4.29p	6.53p	4.06p
jakobi meyers		4.64	7.07/6.87p	4.23
kendrick bourne	11.54	4.68/4.55p	6.73	4.21
devante parker	11.43	4.45
tre nixon	10.77	4.44p	6.81p	4.25p
ty montgomery	10.84	4.55/4.51p	6.97/7.04p	4.21/4.3p
malcolm perry	11.89	4.63	7.12	4.31
matthew slater	10.67	4.44p	7.31p	4.4p

 

[scott99]

Really want Calvin Austin. Just an explosive weapon. 4.32 forty and a 6.65 three cone, that’s insane.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Really want Calvin Austin. Just an explosive weapon. 4.32 forty and a 6.65 three cone, that’s insane.

Out of the offensive players in the Senior Bowl practices/game, CA3 had the highest max acceleration (5.86 yd/s^2 - yet another crazy stat I learned about today). Overall, he was 8th (which makes sense).

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