DRAFT 2022 PTP Draft Board / Pats Draft Talk

[patfanken]

@manxman2601 gives us your thoughts old timer. You're like the mayor around here. About time to check in and give the people what they want.

@Off The Grid it's been long enough buddy. How about you really get back in the game. The people miss reading 4,000 words they don't understand describing draft prospects.

@WaterfallJumper @Kontradiction @JerseyShore99 @scott99 @ctpatsfan77 @patfanken @patsfanfromoversea @Joker @scout @miloofcroton @Ring 6 @Ice_Ice_Brady @RobertWeathers @captain stone @DaBruinz and others
what are you hoping for, for the first 2 picks?? Names or position.

@mayoclinic are you still with us? You we're pretty good at this, better than most. Probably more likely Putin post his top 50 but it would be much appreciated.

@Ian who are some other old timers I can bother that are still alive? Any check in recently that you've noticed?

I'm starting to REALLY hate the combine. A lot of my binkies have been rising up the draft board with their performances.\

Davis is now going to go much higher than 21, not that I thought he'd be there even before the combine. However Travis Jones is likely to go higher than our 2nd round pick.

The sweet spot in this draft for VALUE is going to be in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. So it would seem that trading down acquire a high-ish 2nd rounder and an extra 3rd would be ideal. That would give us 4 picks in that sweet spot area, where we SHOULD be able to pick up 4 quality prospects in the DL, CB, WR, LB positions.

But here's the problem, that is likely what EVERY team that has a pick from about 20-32 is likely to want to do. Saying you want to trade down and actually pulling it off is a lot harder to do.

I list our priorities in this order DL, CB, WR, and speed LB. I might want to switch CB before DL IF Davis is gone and we can't trade down. It is likely that one of the top 5 CB's will be there at 20. I don't think Jones is worth the 21st pick. IF we could do that I'd offer 2 2023 picks (say our 2nd and a 2023 4th) and 5th) to someone in the top 10 in the 2nd round to grab Jones. If we could manage getting a top 5 CB and Jones, this draft would be a success regardless of what happens after.

 

[PatsFan2]

Bacon Draft Guru what's your take on this guy WR: Tyquan Thornton?

 

[DaBruinz]

@BaconGrundleCandy - There is a ton of great talent. I've stated a few times that this draft is going to depend on what the Patriots do with Onwenu. Are they putting him at RT permanently or are they putting him at LG permanently. If they put him at RT, then I'm going D-Line early. Otherwise, I'm taking a tackle who I know can handle both the left and right sides. Looking at the results from the Combine, I'm not sure that there is an OT that meets the Pats 1st round criteria.

People are going to say that with the Pats letting Jackson walk, they need a CB in the first round. I disagree. Games are won/lost in the trenches. The SB proved that. The Bengals D-line just didn't have enough to get to Stafford when the chips were down.

The Pats D-line needs help in a serious way. They need a NT to put next to Barmore and they need an EDGE player opposite Judon. That EDGE player needs to be able to set the edge, rush the Passer, and drop back occasionally in Zone. Helping the line WILL help the Corners. However, they DO need to add corners.

With Jackson probably walking, the Pats will need to sign someone like Charvarious Ward and/or Sidney Jones. If they added BOTH while drafting someone like McCollum, it would help the Pats Secondary.

If Onwenu is at RT:
I think that the only way I'm trading back is if Jordan Davis is off the board. If Davis is gone, I trade back and see about Jones unless Chenal is there.
I think that one of LB/DE/CB has to be the 2nd round pick.
I think that Christian Watson and Kyle Phillips are my WR Binkies. That being said, I can see the Pats forgoing WR all-together in this draft and focusing on the Defense while adding 2 O-linemen in a Swing Tackle and a IOL who can play Guard and Center.

If Onwenu is at LG:
My focus has to be on adding a tackle who can play both sides. I need this security in the event I decide that Wynn walks. This may mean I have to ignore one of the core attributes I look for in my 1st round OT and that's a 30 in vertical.
After adding the OT, I look for the DT/CB/LB/Edge player in the 2nd round. I follow up filling the spots.

The only way I look at a WR is if one of them is there and is the the highest rated player on my board with no trade options available. This would include, Burks, Watson, or Phillips. (as much as I like Watson and Phillips).



This, of course, is going to change somewhat depending on any trades the Patriots might make. And yes, I still think they need to trade Agholor. I also have no issue with the Pats letting Meyers walk if someone signs him to an RFA tender.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

@WaterfallJumper @Kontradiction @JerseyShore99 @scott99 @ctpatsfan77 @patfanken @patsfanfromoversea @Joker @scout @miloofcroton @Ring 6 @Ice_Ice_Brady @RobertWeathers @captain stone @DaBruinz and others
what are you hoping for, for the first 2 picks?? Names or position.

I'm hoping most for a trade down to pick up an extra top-100 pick. Lazar has a trade down from 21 to HOU's 37 and 68. Not sure I want them to go that far, but a high 2, mid 2, high 3, and mid 3 is awfully enticing.

 

[PatsFan2]

I'm starting to REALLY hate the combine. A lot of my binkies have been rising up the draft board with their performances.\

Davis is now going to go much higher than 21, not that I thought he'd be there even before the combine. However Travis Jones is likely to go higher than our 2nd round pick.

The sweet spot in this draft for VALUE is going to be in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. So it would seem that trading down acquire a high-ish 2nd rounder and an extra 3rd would be ideal. That would give us 4 picks in that sweet spot area, where we SHOULD be able to pick up 4 quality prospects in the DL, CB, WR, LB positions.

But here's the problem, that is likely what EVERY team that has a pick from about 20-32 is likely to want to do. Saying you want to trade down and actually pulling it off is a lot harder to do.

I list our priorities in this order DL, CB, WR, and speed LB. I might want to switch CB before DL IF Davis is gone and we can't trade down. It is likely that one of the top 5 CB's will be there at 20. I don't think Jones is worth the 21st pick. IF we could do that I'd offer 2 2023 picks (say our 2nd and a 2023 4th) and 5th) to someone in the top 10 in the 2nd round to grab Jones. If we could manage getting a top 5 CB and Jones, this draft would be a success regardless of what happens after.

The DT's after Jordan Davis look decent what's everyone's take on Travis Jones like his size would he be a good consolation? Love this guys playing strength John Ridgeway II Arkansas he's a Big boy too would look good beside Christian Barmore.

​

 

[DaBruinz]

@BaconGrundleCandy - I noticed that your list was missing a few players that have has some buzz because of the Combine or in general.

- C Tyler Linderbaum - You mention him in the IOL thread, but not on your list? What do you see that's a flag?
- CB Zyon McCollum - At 6'2, a 4.33-40 and a 6.48 3-Cone, he seems like a nice diamond in the rough..
- TE Chigoziem Okonkwo -
- C Cam Jurgens - Nebraska
- T - J'Atyre Carter - Southern U
- OL - Cole Strange - Tenn-Chat -Played OT/OG for them and played C in the Senior Bowl.


Would love to hear your thoughts and whether there are PTP red flags that would keep these guys off the Pats Board.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

What are the chances Pats trade, say, our 2023 2nd rounder for a very late 2nd or one of the first picks in the third (or something like it involving our future picks)? This would give Bill a lot of movability to score some players in the top 70 or so. Next years draft looks pretty good early on so I don't see the 1st rounder (say for Detroit's pick at 32 or Philly's 3rd 1st rounder) in play. But we will likely have multiple picks in the 3rd and 4th next year so I could see taking a chance if the right players are available.
There are a number of teams (Denver, Jax, NYG, NYJ & Philly) with too many picks (they all made at least 9 picks, except for NYG, last year) that could interest this type of scenario. Jax has too many young players and lots of cap room. They don't need 11 picks, even though 4 are in the 6th round. I know the Jets (they made 10 picks last year) are a long shot but they fall into the category of teams with lots of early picks and lots of cap room to splash in free agency.

I've thought about that a lot myself. And came to the conclusion I want next year's 2nd. These things always change but this down year was expected. Next two classes are better all around. Esp at the top.

*edit* I'd part with our 3rds though

 

[*ChungFu*]

@BaconGrundleCandy - There is a ton of great talent. I've stated a few times that this draft is going to depend on what the Patriots do with Onwenu. Are they putting him at RT permanently or are they putting him at LG permanently. If they put him at RT, then I'm going D-Line early. Otherwise, I'm taking a tackle who I know can handle both the left and right sides. Looking at the results from the Combine, I'm not sure that there is an OT that meets the Pats 1st round criteria.

People are going to say that with the Pats letting Jackson walk, they need a CB in the first round. I disagree. Games are won/lost in the trenches. The SB proved that. The Bengals D-line just didn't have enough to get to Stafford when the chips were down.

The Pats D-line needs help in a serious way. They need a NT to put next to Barmore and they need an EDGE player opposite Judon. That EDGE player needs to be able to set the edge, rush the Passer, and drop back occasionally in Zone. Helping the line WILL help the Corners. However, they DO need to add corners.

With Jackson probably walking, the Pats will need to sign someone like Charvarious Ward and/or Sidney Jones. If they added BOTH while drafting someone like McCollum, it would help the Pats Secondary.

If Onwenu is at RT:
I think that the only way I'm trading back is if Jordan Davis is off the board. If Davis is gone, I trade back and see about Jones unless Chenal is there.
I think that one of LB/DE/CB has to be the 2nd round pick.
I think that Christian Watson and Kyle Phillips are my WR Binkies. That being said, I can see the Pats forgoing WR all-together in this draft and focusing on the Defense while adding 2 O-linemen in a Swing Tackle and a IOL who can play Guard and Center.

If Onwenu is at LG:
My focus has to be on adding a tackle who can play both sides. I need this security in the event I decide that Wynn walks. This may mean I have to ignore one of the core attributes I look for in my 1st round OT and that's a 30 in vertical.
After adding the OT, I look for the DT/CB/LB/Edge player in the 2nd round. I follow up filling the spots.

The only way I look at a WR is if one of them is there and is the the highest rated player on my board with no trade options available. This would include, Burks, Watson, or Phillips. (as much as I like Watson and Phillips).



This, of course, is going to change somewhat depending on any trades the Patriots might make. And yes, I still think they need to trade Agholor. I also have no issue with the Pats letting Meyers walk if someone signs him to an RFA tender.

I like your reasoning and overall the players and moves you've mentioned. If even some of this were to happen it would help. I'm sure that BB recognizes our OLine deficiencies and in my opinion that is our biggest problem on Offense.

 

[captain stone]

Between the top CBs, safeties and Jordan Davis, we are sure to find someone very good at our pick. The trick will be to pick high enough in the second round to draft an impact player.

"Safeties"?!?

 

[captain stone]

Patriots Mock Draft 1.0: Double Dip At Position Of Need Headlines Haul

With the NFL Scouting Combine now complete, it's time for NESN.com's first 2022 New England Patriots mock draft.

nesn.com

I like this mock except for the last pick. I'd prefer someone to replace James White, if he doesn't recover from injury (or upgrade JJ Taylor), if possible. But it didn't address a couple of other needs: beef in the middle of the D and an edge rusher opposite Judon.

I like the first two picks... and I like Anderson, and I'm ok with the spot in the draft he's taken... But this is a luxury we cannot afford without First addressing our more-pressing needs at DE & DT... Not a fan of the rest of the picks either.

If I had only 6 picks to use for the Pats this year, I would do my best to use them at (in no particular order, though my very first pick - or two - will be used strictly on defense): WR, LT, NT, DE & CB x 2.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

If I had only 6 picks to use for the Pats this year, I would do my best to use them at (in no particular order, though my very first pick - or two - will be used strictly on defense): WR, LT, NT, DE & CB x 2.

Agreed, but it seems like if we resign Trent Brown and Karras there is enough depth on the OL to project (in no particular order) WR, LB, NT, DE & CB x 2. With Karras, Herron, and Cajuste (Durant can move on), we have a lot more depth at OL than the younguns at LB, and no depth at CB or DL. Hence my preferred order. FA could change things but I do not think there will be a lot of FA signings.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

@BaconGrundleCandy - I noticed that your list was missing a few players that have has some buzz because of the Combine or in general.

- C Tyler Linderbaum - You mention him in the IOL thread, but not on your list? What do you see that's a flag?

Nothing. He's like a young Jason Kelce. Not sure he'll be there and we have only picked OL with T experience so not sure we'd invest that high. Plus Andrews is good. I try to manage prospects and don't want to have too many names. If we were hurting at that spot. Just drafted Mac. It makes sense but too many things point to no on Linderbaum.

- CB Zyon McCollum - At 6'2, a 4.33-40 and a 6.48 3-Cone, he seems like a nice diamond in the rough..

When I look at CB for us I'm looking for polish or outstanding traits. You really have to be able to play and play well if you're sticking around NE.
McCollum is interesting. I'll say this his speed, agility and size show up. Sometimes they don't always translate. I guy might run slow but play fast. Or vice versa. You can see it in his hips, very loose player but he'll open up to turn a but too fast at times. He handles bigger WR like someone his size should. He uses the sidelines well and boxes guy out with a presence. Very physical prospect. The one thing that stands out and not in a good way. Is how he handles himself on the line. Looks a little lost but I don't believe he had the most expansive background their. That and his play recognition were stand out issues for me in a bad way.

- TE Chigoziem Okonkwo -

We're clogged at TE. Unless we move on from one particularly Smith or Keene bc Okonkwo is a flex option. Weapon in space. But needs a lot of work as a blocker.

- C Cam Jurgens - Nebraska

I love Jurgens. He's weighed in around 303 for the combine?? I know he was like 290 for playing weight and even looked lighter at times just watching him. It's not just that looks light, he plays light. He'd have a lot of trouble dealing with guys that have speed and power. You need to throw the ball a lot to survive with him. His athleticism stands out. Extremely quick and fast. He can keep up with most down field no matter position. Same moving east/west he's very loose.

Plus hand strength. At times, certain plays he comes up from underneath the ground to generate power getting as low as possible but few far between and they're designed plays.

Always chirping to the other side. Calls out protection.

I'd love to see what a creative coach or staff could do with him. Even as an oversized FB. Love his passion for the game. Hes a football player 100%. Tons of effort and fight 24/7.

- T - J'Atyre Carter - Southern U

Sometimes you get guys that have all the athleticism in the world but can't play. It's kind of the opposite with him. Except I'm not totally sure coaching couldn't improve his techniques more in certain areas. Possibly unlocking a little quickness in his kick step/slide for example. Looks awkward at times but he might just be that way. Only saying it bc some programs will have kids using a certain technique or angle on a certain run play or set for pass pro. So it's possible it's coaching?

Love his hand work. Somewhat advanced for where he is at this stage in the game. He'll faint, use independent or two hand strikes. Strong grip. Technical in some ways but athleticism doesn't really show up.

Has the body to get a little stronger and isn't maxed out yet.

Feet are a bit slow but good enough. He's kept up with most speed I saw. Just the lack of juice or twitch in his movements give me real pause.

- OL - Cole Strange - Tenn-Chat -Played OT/OG for them and played C in the Senior Bowl.

If he can improve his footwork off contact then theres something there. He takes a little too long to regain hands or leverage which will hurt next level but he doesn't have any big weaknesses. I really like his game. Smart, physical demeanor with real versatility. I'll probably add him.

Would love to hear your thoughts and whether there are PTP red flags that would keep these guys off the Pats Board.

Had this written last night except for Strange but fell asleep at like 8.

 

[Mark Morse]

Nothing. He's like a young Jason Kelce. Not sure he'll be there and we have only picked OL with T experience so not sure we'd invest that high. Plus Andrews is good. I try to manage prospects and don't want to have too many names. If we were hurting at that spot. Just drafted Mac. It makes sense but too many things point to no on Linderbaum.

When I look at CB for us I'm looking for polish or outstanding traits. You really have to be able to play and play well if you're sticking around NE.
McCollum is interesting. I'll say this his speed, agility and size show up. Sometimes they don't always translate. I guy might run slow but play fast. Or vice versa. You can see it in his hips, very loose player but he'll open up to turn a but too fast at times. He handles bigger WR like someone his size should. He uses the sidelines well and boxes guy out with a presence. Very physical prospect. The one thing that stands out and not in a good way. Is how he handles himself on the line. Looks a little lost but I don't believe he had the most expansive background their. That and his play recognition were stand out issues for me in a bad way.

We're clogged at TE. Unless we move on from one particularly Smith or Keene bc Okonkwo is a flex option. Weapon in space. But needs a lot of work as a blocker.

I love Jurgens. He's weighed in around 303 for the combine?? I know he was like 290 for playing weight and even looked lighter at times just watching him. It's not just that looks light, he plays light. He'd have a lot of trouble dealing with guys that have speed and power. You need to throw the ball a lot to survive with him. His athleticism stands out. Extremely quick and fast. He can keep up with most down field no matter position. Same moving east/west he's very loose.

Plus hand strength. At times, certain plays he comes up from underneath the ground to generate power getting as low as possible but few far between and they're designed plays.

Always chirping to the other side. Calls out protection.

I'd love to see what a creative coach or staff could do with him. Even as an oversized FB. Love his passion for the game. Hes a football player 100%. Tons of effort and fight 24/7.

Sometimes you get guys that have all the athleticism in the world but can't play. It's kind of the opposite with him. Except I'm not totally sure coaching couldn't improve his techniques more in certain areas. Possibly unlocking a little quickness in his kick step/slide for example. Looks awkward at times but he might just be that way. Only saying it bc some programs will have kids using a certain technique or angle on a certain run play or set for pass pro. So it's possible it's coaching?

Love his hand work. Somewhat advanced for where he is at this stage in the game. He'll faint, use independent or two hand strikes. Strong grip. Technical in some ways but athleticism doesn't really show up.

Has the body to get a little stronger and isn't maxed out yet.

Feet are a bit slow but good enough. He's kept up with most speed I saw. Just the lack of juice or twitch in his movements give me real pause.

If he can improve his footwork off contact then theres something there. He takes a little too long to regain hands or leverage which will hurt next level but he doesn't have any big weaknesses. I really like his game. Smart, physical demeanor with real versatility. I'll probably add him.

Had this written last night except for Strange but fell asleep at like 8.

There is something wrong with McCollum, I haven't been able to find out what it is yet. I did a mock with PFF Simulator and took McCollum late and got a "F" grade for the selection. PFF ratings for him are very low. I would rather take a shot at DeCobie Durant at that spot.

 

[Scotty]

There is something wrong with McCollum, I haven't been able to find out what it is yet. I did a mock with PFF Simulator and took McCollum late and got a "F" grade for the selection. PFF ratings for him are very low. I would rather take a shot at DeCobie Durant at that spot.

Mark,

I think their gradings are wrong , I drafted Davis and got a D and then Christian Watson and still got a poor overall grade

 

[Mark Morse]

I think you will like my Mock Draft #3 when it gets published either late today or tomorrow. CB is my #1 priority and LB is 2nd.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

@BaconGrundleCandy - There is a ton of great talent. I've stated a few times that this draft is going to depend on what the Patriots do with Onwenu. Are they putting him at RT permanently or are they putting him at LG permanently. If they put him at RT, then I'm going D-Line early. Otherwise, I'm taking a tackle who I know can handle both the left and right sides. Looking at the results from the Combine, I'm not sure that there is an OT that meets the Pats 1st round criteria.

People are going to say that with the Pats letting Jackson walk, they need a CB in the first round. I disagree. Games are won/lost in the trenches. The SB proved that. The Bengals D-line just didn't have enough to get to Stafford when the chips were down.

The Pats D-line needs help in a serious way. They need a NT to put next to Barmore and they need an EDGE player opposite Judon. That EDGE player needs to be able to set the edge, rush the Passer, and drop back occasionally in Zone. Helping the line WILL help the Corners. However, they DO need to add corners.

With Jackson probably walking, the Pats will need to sign someone like Charvarious Ward and/or Sidney Jones. If they added BOTH while drafting someone like McCollum, it would help the Pats Secondary.

If Onwenu is at RT:
I think that the only way I'm trading back is if Jordan Davis is off the board. If Davis is gone, I trade back and see about Jones unless Chenal is there.
I think that one of LB/DE/CB has to be the 2nd round pick.
I think that Christian Watson and Kyle Phillips are my WR Binkies. That being said, I can see the Pats forgoing WR all-together in this draft and focusing on the Defense while adding 2 O-linemen in a Swing Tackle and a IOL who can play Guard and Center.

If Onwenu is at LG:
My focus has to be on adding a tackle who can play both sides. I need this security in the event I decide that Wynn walks. This may mean I have to ignore one of the core attributes I look for in my 1st round OT and that's a 30 in vertical.
After adding the OT, I look for the DT/CB/LB/Edge player in the 2nd round. I follow up filling the spots.

The only way I look at a WR is if one of them is there and is the the highest rated player on my board with no trade options available. This would include, Burks, Watson, or Phillips. (as much as I like Watson and Phillips).



This, of course, is going to change somewhat depending on any trades the Patriots might make. And yes, I still think they need to trade Agholor. I also have no issue with the Pats letting Meyers walk if someone signs him to an RFA tender.

Good point about Onwenu. It's another reason why you can't get too high about a good year, especially from a late round pick. Usually things average out.

Agreed on other points too. If someone is willing to take Agholor then you have to say bye to that contract. He's not a bad player but we overpaid and didn't utilize him with about 25 fewer targets. If you're not taking shots deep with him, deep crossers, you're not using him right. Esp from the slot.

I'd be on the phone with Seattle rn inquiring about Lockett and DK.

 

[upstater1]

Good point about Onwenu. It's another reason why you can't get too high about a good year, especially from a late round pick. Usually things average out.

Agreed on other points too. If someone is willing to take Agholor then you have to say bye to that contract. He's not a bad player but we overpaid and didn't utilize him with about 25 fewer targets. If you're not taking shots deep with him, deep crossers, you're not using him right. Esp from the slot.

I'd be on the phone with Seattle rn inquiring about Lockett and DK.

We're not getting anyone better than Agholor though for the $5m in cap savings, and Mac was still tuning into the offense. Nelson has one more year, he may surprise especially as this offense evolves.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

We're not getting anyone better than Agholor though for the $5m in cap savings, and Mac was still tuning into the offense. Nelson has one more year, he may surprise especially as this offense evolves.

I actually thought it was a little longer than it was. Forgot it's only a 2 year deal.

 

[50-yard-line]

I actually thought it was a little longer than it was. Forgot it's only a 2 year deal.

Agholor for this year only, and Meyers, too, at this point, IF the tender him and hold him. And Harry, too...well, he probably won't even be here.

 

[DaBruinz]

Good point about Onwenu. It's another reason why you can't get too high about a good year, especially from a late round pick. Usually things average out.

Agreed on other points too. If someone is willing to take Agholor then you have to say bye to that contract. He's not a bad player but we overpaid and didn't utilize him with about 25 fewer targets. If you're not taking shots deep with him, deep crossers, you're not using him right. Esp from the slot.

I'd be on the phone with Seattle rn inquiring about Lockett and DK.

With Seattle jettisoning Wilson, having a good WR corps is crucial for them. They just added Fant to Metcalf and Lockett. That gives them 3 very good receivers that they can use to persuade a QB to go there or for a rookie QB to develop with. With Seattle picking 9th and the QB group being slim pickings in the draft, I could see them trading back before adding Malik Willis or possibly even drafting Willis at 9.

The other part is that they freed up a ton of money and now can offer Duane Brown a new contract and Metcalf an extension.

Lockett isn't going to be traded. Doing so would result in an ADDITIONAL 18M cap hit for the Seahawks. It would raise Lockett's cap hit from 10M to 28.2M. Not sure who started the rumor that the Seahawks would trade Lockett, but it's never happening.