OT: New York Approves Location of New Bills Stadium

[sb1]

Yeah, I can't see the NFL coming to Canada anytime soon, But they just announced a $250 Million upgrade to the Rogers Centre. Perhaps we might host a game or two like London does.

I think the Bills had an arrangement to play a game or two there every season a decade ago? Heard it didn’t draw very well but they didn’t exactly have marquee games either. I bet Bills Pats would have filled the place.

 

[GreenCow]

This is complete BS.

You're just changing the terms of the entire discussion because you know you're wrong.

Anyone can read my post from yesterday above where I say the space would not only be the Perry Street projects but the entire industrial space from the casino east and also the two city parks tp the south and west.

As a matter of fact I see lots of space to the south which I mentioned which isn't even covered by the current footprint.

LOL. No.

1. I said they wont move downtown because it will ruin the culture of the fan base because there is not enough space for tailgating, parking, etc.
2. You said there was plenty of space down town. Look at the perry projects.
3. I just about spit my drink about because the Perry projects isnt even NEARLY big enough to house all the Bills need to do.

Here is a map of the area Upstater1 is talking about.

- Blue are people's homes and businesses. This is the First Ward.
- Purple is the perry projects.
- Yellow is a mix of 2 small parks and a bunch of businesses that have been there for a long time (rental company, brewery, repair shop, truck wash, etc).

So your plan is to kick all these business's out, plop a massive stadium on the doorstep of the first ward, and STILL not be able to fit in the parking that the Bills currently have in Orchard Park.

Anyone starting to realize why the Bills chose not to build downtown?



And here it is with the current stadium in the same spot.



His next argument will be that the Bills should make a wedge shaped stadium to fit that space more lol.

This is why even the pro-downtown proponents have said the Bills would need to build the stadium in the Perry Projects, but then spread the parking out in all different directions. Some were saying a few blocks away near the Skyway. Others were saying off South Park. Others wanted it near the train tracks.

This ridiculousness actually reminds of when people were proposing a Manhattan stadium for the Jets lol.

 

[XLIX]

What are you talking about? The article was about many studies and about all the experts on this issue. Youre wrong.

Also, learn how taxes work. There are brackets. It's not a flat 10%. Up to $1 million you're at 6.8%. The average NFL salary is $860k.

It is highly misleading to talk about "average salary" when so much money earned by NFL players comes in forms other than salary.

Next year's salary cap is going to be over $200 million. When you look at roster size (and even adjust for players on IR), it is clear that the true average salary is going to be in the $3 - $4 million range.

The Dallas Cowboys average greater than $1 million per man this year based on Dak Prescott's signing bonus alone.. You could pay every other member of that team absolutely nothing, and they would still average over $1 million per man.

 

[GreenCow]

I think the Bills had an arrangement to play a game or two there every season a decade ago? Heard it didn’t draw very well but they didn’t exactly have marquee games either. I bet Bills Pats would have filled the place.

Correct. Disaster.

 

[patfanken]

TFA says Erie County will be owner and landlord to the Bills -- "Though the bulk of funding will come from the state, the county serves as the landlord of the stadium."


IMO all Kraft showed was he didn't have the leverage to get a deal through the Legislature. He didn't even get the infrastructure deal till he threatened to move to Hartford.

IMO the Mass gov't showed they felt they could do without the Patriots, the NY gov't is showing they feel they cannot do without the Bills.

As above, I think the Pagulas are benefiting from good timing. They are coming off their first AFCE in a very long time and have a promising young QB signed long term. This is giving NYS the support it needs to pass a big spending bill for the stadium. State politics also give the WNY area a feeling they are due for some payback after all the massive projects benefiting ENY and in particular NYC have gone through in recent years.

I don't completely agree with your characterization of the situation prior to the building of Gillette, but regardless of what take runs clear for you, the fact remains that in the end (for whatever reason) the Stadium was build ENTIRELY with private money and the inherent infrastructure costs where ALSO repaid to the state. And most importantly the project was and is a financial success for the owner, so I never understood why, AFTER seeing what Kraft did on his own, NO other owner followed suit.

I don't doubt if the state had offers some money, Kraft would have taken it. Christ he eventually walked away with a completely FREE stadium in Hartford (though who knows how real that deal actually was). BTW - I never believed he would have walked away from a stadium in the Boston area, though that is just my personal opinion. Don't forget at the time he was rightfully pissed when the then Governor Bill Weld led him down the garden path and then left him hanging in the wind with that so called Metro Plex, with visions of a convention center, football stadium, and the Sox launching homers into the harbor in THEIR new stadium to go along with the Bruins and the Celts playing just 2 subway stops away in North Station. Sounded great, I know I wanted it, but it was poorly thought out and Weld never did the ground work necessary to get it through all the LOCAL political hurdles, and Kraft was left holding the bag when it all fell apart.

Thanks for letting me know about the ownership situation. I think my head would have exploded if the Pagula's not only got the money, but also got the deed.

 

[fourhour]

I'm a Patriots fan and have been since 1976.

I know you are. Just commenting on the ongoing disagreement.

 

[Ring 6]

Because you aggregated a bunch of imaginary money that the average fan pays. You wrote $200. I was talking about what the average fan actually pays.

But hey keep disagreeing with the experts on the matter. I see you're keeping your Dunning Kruger streak going across fora.

Yes. People go to games and they buy tickets, they pay to park, they purchase food and drinks, the purchase hats, jerseys and other memorabilia. You said they spend a grand total of 75% of the average ticket price and sneak in their food, but no gear, and no one parks their car in the 15000 spaces owned by the team that are always full.
200 is very reasonable.

 

[Ring 6]

What are you talking about? The article was about many studies and about all the experts on this issue. Youre wrong.

Also, learn how taxes work. There are brackets. It's not a flat 10%. Up to $1 million you're at 6.8%. The average NFL salary is $860k.

And how in the world do you get 860k when the cap is almost 200 mill for 53 players? If that were the average thr cap would be about 45 mill. Dude, you are now at the level of just making things up. You should review the first rule of holes.

 

[TomPatriot]

As above, I think the Pagulas are benefiting from good timing. They are coming off their first AFCE in a very long time and have a promising young QB signed long term. This is giving NYS the support it needs to pass a big spending bill for the stadium. State politics also give the WNY area a feeling they are due for some payback after all the massive projects benefiting ENY and in particular NYC have gone through in recent years.

It’s all about giving money to upstate paid for by downstate. I don’t think the Bills AFCE title has much to do with it. Without the Bills the state technically would have no football team, since the wretched Jets and petrified Giants play in the swamp across the river. Plus, downstate NY tax revenue has bankrolled upstate for generations and it’s no accident that’s continuing.

 

[Ring 6]

The AVERAGE cost that a fan will pay is over $100 per seat.

Not $75. Not $85.

The AVERAGE overall cost per ticket is over $100 per seat. Thats what the average fan will spend.

There is a much simpler answer to this.
The salary cap is set at roughly 50% of the average revenue of the teams. A salary cap of 200 mill means the average team has 400 mill in revenue. If they have a 60,000 seat stadium for 10 games that means the revenue per seat is $667 per seat per game. We don’t need to count his many beers and hats everyone bought.

 

[Ring 6]

It’s all about giving money to upstate paid for by downstate. I don’t think the Bills AFCE title has much to do with it. Without the Bills the state technically would have no football team, since the wretched Jets and petrified Giants play in the swamp across the river. Plus, downstate NY tax revenue has bankrolled upstate for generations and it’s no accident that’s continuing.

It’s a drop in the bucket $72 per citizen.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

There is a much simpler answer to this.
The salary cap is set at roughly 50% of the average revenue of the teams. A salary cap of 200 mill means the average team has 400 mill in revenue. If they have a 60,000 seat stadium for 10 games that means the revenue per seat is $667 per seat per game. We don’t need to count his many beers and hats everyone bought.

I don't think the salary cap is based on stadium revenue alone, there's TV rights' merchandising etc..

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think the salary cap is based on stadium revenue alone, there's TV rights' merchandising etc..

It doesn’t matter, it’s all revenue coming into the jurisdiction and subject to tax.

 

[GreenCow]

Yes. People go to games and they buy tickets, they pay to park, they purchase food and drinks, the purchase haha, jerseys and other memorabilia. You said they spend a grand total of 75% of the average ticket price and sneak in their food, but no gear, and no one parks their car in the 15000 spaces owned by the team that are always full.
200 is very reasonable.

LOL!

Wow you nailed it.

 

[upstater1]

Are you an athlete on a visiting team? Did you read the article?
Did you read the article you posted? It says that they have to pay tax to the state for away games, but they advise players to make up for it (and other taxes) by living in a no income tax state.
That does not reduce the tax New York State collects on games in Buffalo.
I think at this point you are just wasting my time to avoid admitting you know you were wrong.

You deliberately twist everything you read. It's your MO. Nowhere did I write it reduces the tax NY takes in Buffalo. It says when players list non NY residences, they DON'T pay NY taxes on games outside NY. This means that NY is collecting taxes on 8 home games instead of 16.

But not only that, I also showed that you're using the wrong tax bracket and the vast majority of income is taxed at 6.8%, with the next step up to 9.5%.

 

[upstater1]

It’s not an article about studies it’s an article interviewing people who say they do studies. There is no data about how the study was done, what biases were included and what factors of the team abandoning the community they take into account.

And the majority of the income is in the top bracket, and we haven’t even included the income of the owners, the coaches, staff, employees, etc.
200 mill is a very low estimate.

The majority of income is not in the top bracket. Absolutely wrong.

SHow me an article of experts refuting what these experts have to say. They are pretty absolute that there is widespread agreement.

 

[upstater1]

LOL. No.

1. I said they wont move downtown because it will ruin the culture of the fan base because there is not enough space for tailgating, parking, etc.
2. You said there was plenty of space down town. Look at the perry projects.
3. I just about spit my drink about because the Perry projects isnt even NEARLY big enough to house all the Bills need to do.

Here is a map of the area Upstater1 is talking about.

- Blue are people's homes and businesses. This is the First Ward.
- Purple is the perry projects.
- Yellow is a mix of 2 small parks and a bunch of businesses that have been there for a long time (rental company, brewery, repair shop, truck wash, etc).

So your plan is to kick all these business's out, plop a massive stadium on the doorstep of the first ward, and STILL not be able to fit in the parking that the Bills currently have in Orchard Park.

Anyone starting to realize why the Bills chose not to build downtown?



And here it is with the current stadium in the same spot.



His next argument will be that the Bills should make a wedge shaped stadium to fit that space more lol.

This is why even the pro-downtown proponents have said the Bills would need to build the stadium in the Perry Projects, but then spread the parking out in all different directions. Some were saying a few blocks away near the Skyway. Others were saying off South Park. Others wanted it near the train tracks.

This ridiculousness actually reminds of when people were proposing a Manhattan stadium for the Jets lol.

You said I wrote the footprint would fit in the Perry projects. I never said that. Now you're backtracking.

I wrote it would go in the industrial area to the west of Perry, in the Perry projects, and south to the river and the park. There is plenty of room in those 3 areas. Nothing to do with the first ward.

 

[upstater1]

Yes. People go to games and they buy tickets, they pay to park, they purchase food and drinks, the purchase hats, jerseys and other memorabilia. You said they spend a grand total of 75% of the average ticket price and sneak in their food, but no gear, and no one parks their car in the 15000 spaces owned by the team that are always full.
200 is very reasonable.

You've obviously never been to a Bills game. It's not like Foxboro. Nothing like it.

 

[upstater1]

And how in the world do you get 860k when the cap is almost 200 mill for 53 players? If that were the average thr cap would be about 45 mill. Dude, you are now at the level of just making things up. You should review the first rule of holes.

The NFL Minimum Salary is Higher Than Most Fans Realize

Being an NFL player puts you in elite company. It can also make you quite rich. People often talk about player contracts in the NFL, and player salary is of increasing interest to dedicated NFL fans because the league's superstars are paid like A-list celebrities. Videos by FanBuzz A lot of the...

fanbuzz.com

There's a dozen articles that have that. Just searched Google with NFL average salary.

Regardless, the cap is $180m. But if you'll notice teams do not spend to the cap.

Look at real cap spending: NFL Salary Cap Space | Over The Cap

Learn something for once in your life.

I accept that the $860k number must not include bonuses, those articles must be excluding that, but even if we take the 53 man roster and divide it by $150m, we still get a little lower than $3m. The first million is taxed at 6.8, the 2nd & 3rd at 9%.Regardless, it's not a straight $200m x 10.5%. No way. And it's going to come nowhere near the $1 billion in the article.

 

[upstater1]

It is highly misleading to talk about "average salary" when so much money earned by NFL players comes in forms other than salary.

Next year's salary cap is going to be over $200 million. When you look at roster size (and even adjust for players on IR), it is clear that the true average salary is going to be in the $3 - $4 million range.

The Dallas Cowboys average greater than $1 million per man this year based on Dak Prescott's signing bonus alone.. You could pay every other member of that team absolutely nothing, and they would still average over $1 million per man.

You have to remember that teams don't spend to the cap.